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  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by DesireKT View Post
    I know that which is why I said when they balance the level 100 tier they have to be better than regular pets or selecting Servitude is not an option in any situation.
    Right, but I was under the assumption they're already balanced as a dps gain but the loss of cooldowns weren't factored in. I'm surprised to learn they're balanced against existing pets and offer little to no dps gain whatsoever.

    However, I see a problem and it might be because I don't understand math at all:

    If Servitude buffs the Doomguard/Infernal and they perform better than standard pets, wouldn't that mean Supremacy becomes the only option? Unless they change Service, if you take Servitude, both Sacrifice and Service are unaltered. However the Supremacy's 20% bonus will scale with the Servitude pets and will always be the better choice.

    Seems like we're going to see some patch notes that add the Doomguard and Infernal to Service or we're going to have quite a problem with pet talents as a whole.
    Last edited by jackvii; 2014-08-09 at 10:50 PM.

  2. #562
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    well, our doomguard guardians are cast capped at 18ish shadowbolts, not much point in having them stand still doing nothing for the duration of a fight atleast not as long as they are cast capped.
    They resolved that sort of thing with Unholy Gargoyles so I wouldn't worry about that. It's not a matter of their capability to make perma-Guardians, just their willingness.

    To be fair, I'm sure you can think up a list of potential issues with normal pet + perma-guardian, but I still like that idea way better than the current solution which is just incredibly off-putting. I don't know how they managed to make the design concept "permanent Infernals!" into something I have no interest in clicking. >.<

    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    They'd be worthwhile as a second pet. As a replacement for your main pet, however, I wouldn't bother with them. Besides, Wrathguards, being Eredar, are already at the pinnacle of demonic power, especially compared to abyssals which are mere constructs, or terrorguards which are lesser demons.
    They're Eredar, but they're "working-class" Eredar, the honor guard to the real movers and thinkers in demonic 'society'. Sort of the same relationship Felguard have to the Mo'arg scientists, actually.
    Last edited by Lovestar; 2014-08-09 at 10:50 PM.

  3. #563
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    That they are, but even so, they are a cut above the other demonic species. That, plus the fact that they're easier on the eyes, means I'd rather use one of them than the rather visually dull guardians as a pet.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  4. #564
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    No disagreements there. Personal tastes I know, but for me Demonic Servitude honestly feels like a cosmetic and conceptual downgrade from the normal demons.

  5. #565
    I honestly hope infernal/abbyssal, doomguard/terrorguard and the meta model get an update, all of those really need it, and given the efforts they put into druids forms i think this models wich are nearly 7 yold really need a revision because we are gonne see them all wod, and it wont be nice even for other players to have ugly old models on the screen all the time.

    Even the new glyph that allows to meta with wings only (like the dear and lost Apotheosis) need a revision, the wings of the meta are clunky, there are already a lot of better choices to replace them, the visual effect of Malefic head piece made permanent just to say one easy way to improve that thing..

  6. #566
    Summoning a doomguard without killing a random party member (lock him/herself included) is what we need again.
    And if you didn't enslave it, it would go nuts and kill all the lowbies in the starting area (where you summoned it just for that reason).

    But in all seriousness, I like having the doomguard and infernal as permanent pets but they just don't feel very well tuned at all.
    Nor do I like the slow/root being channeled, if it did damage while it was channeling I would've been fine with it though.

    But rather would've seen an aditional "big bad ass demon" summon cd like a pitlord with a cd short enough to be useable in pvp ofcourse.
    I've been wanting a pitlord for many many years and saw some hope with the greenfire quest but unfortunatly it didn't happen.

  7. #567

  8. #568
    That would be terrible past progression and or long fights. Going from 2-3 uses back down to 1 maybe 2 on longer fights would make me mad. But I guess you'd get less casts of the other 100 Talents as well just seems meh and would change the talent to something I kinda of want to use to never really. I'm actually on the side of wanting to use servitude sometimes or it at least being comparable to the other 2 choices so every now and again I could use it.

  9. #569
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Going the "reduced CD" route, rather than a flat reduction, it would be more fun as a proc that just reset the CD. And allowed multiple instances of the same guardian out at one time.

    Get that WC3 cinematic vibe of Infernals raining down everywhere. ^^

  10. #570
    Titan Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    And allowed multiple instances of the same guardian out at one time.
    Only the CD currently prevents that. Do End Time.

  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerraw View Post
    Only the CD currently prevents that. Do End Time.
    I wouldn't be mad if Murozond was the end-boss of WoD.

    It did look like he was supposed to be a raid boss ... for some reason he was naturally immune to Army of the Dead taunt, which typically only raid bosses are. There was that whole scrapped War of the Ancients raid ...
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  12. #572
    Epic! Skayth's Avatar
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    My Design of Servitude would simply be different. destro and affliction would get the version that is currently available, as it should replace all the pets, if the numbers are correct. For demonology, it would either get another unique demon to replace its felguard and the 2 10 min cds, like lets say a doomlord for example, or it would it would get the 10 min cds as simple guardians that last forever, while having the regular pet out. With either of these 2 versions, it keeps demonology unique, as one of the two main things is the uniqueness of having the felguard. Taking that away in favor of the current design makes demonology "feel" like the other specs, and not have its own special sauce.

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I'd rather Servitude simply significantly reduced the cooldown on the Guardians to 3-4 minutes.
    3 minutes would be sufficient so that they still felt like "greater demons", remove the shared cooldown (but still only one summon at a time), give them unlimited duration when summoned unless they are killed, dismissed, etc. like a regular pet. That'd be interesting.

    You could even include something like the old Demo Impending Doom talent to reduce the cooldown further with certain spells like fillers/executes. Even more interesting.
    Last edited by Roujeaux; 2014-08-11 at 02:37 AM.
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    When life gives you lemons, throw them back and say, "WTF life?"

  14. #574
    Update on simc stuff:

    GoSyn isn't functioning correctly. There really aren't any class specific RPPM buffs so we need to do some trickery to make it work.
    The only other thing missing right now is glyph of dark soul.
    Demonology pet's aren't gaining the 20% damage bonus they're supposed to in game, and they aren't in simc either. When blizzard fixes that, I'll update simc with new spell data to reflect it.
    SB:Haunt is still 15% for DS dots and 20% for normal dots in game, still no clarification from devs, still no nothing, still a flat 20% in simc.

    Everything else should be working!

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by gahddo View Post
    Update on simc stuff:

    GoSyn isn't functioning correctly. There really aren't any class specific RPPM buffs so we need to do some trickery to make it work.
    The only other thing missing right now is glyph of dark soul.
    Demonology pet's aren't gaining the 20% damage bonus they're supposed to in game, and they aren't in simc either. When blizzard fixes that, I'll update simc with new spell data to reflect it.
    SB:Haunt is still 15% for DS dots and 20% for normal dots in game, still no clarification from devs, still no nothing, still a flat 20% in simc.

    Everything else should be working!
    Got a link to the working beta simC client?

  16. #576
    Well that little exchange with Cel is hardly inspiring confidence. Apparently the extreme cooldown stacking and splash from "single target" spells don't seem to be factored into our AoE.

  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Well that little exchange with Cel is hardly inspiring confidence. Apparently the extreme cooldown stacking and splash from "single target" spells don't seem to be factored into our AoE.
    Demo AoE has been kind of an odd joke since ToC spam fishing for 4 piece became the thing to do. With that in mind it doesn't surprise me that they have strange considerations for what our AoE is.

  18. #578
    just curious, since our tier bonus 4 set gave us mainly benefit to our AoE what would the ramifications be if this were added as baseline for demonology warlocks as a passive? I mean i can't imagine we would have been as "decent" in the current tier had it not been for that bonus granted all the AoE cleave fights there are currently in SoO. would the 4set as a passive baseline be too OP or inconvenient in some cases? ( always had people saying "I SAID NO AoE!!!!" when my HoG or CW would proc on like garrosh trash adds XD)


    Also I find it very annoying that cel doesn't agree with what you said jessika; our AoE has considerable ramp up (not to mention its complicated as hell if you're a complete new player to the spec) as well as cost currently although I'm not on beta so I can't speak for future, I really hope they address this at some point because it blows my mind that they don't see it as an issue.

  19. #579
    Things I found from looking at demo APL for 6 hours straight today:

    • Imp swarm is still a <1% dps loss in almost every case, for a massive burst increase.
    • Cata >>>>>>>>> demonbolt.
    • The most efficient demonbolt usage is with glyph of dark soul. You spam out as many as you can during the duration of DS, as your primary DF dump, replacing ToC.
    • Cata should be used during DS/Meta burst cycles.
    • Glyph of Dark Soul is a slight dps loss (~1.5%), mostly because trinkets last longer than 10 seconds right now. But, it also adds more flexibility to the spec as a whole, similar to imp swarm.
    • ToC is WAY more efficient than Soul Fire right now. ToC's Damage per demonic fury per execute time is 1.1505% of spell power. Soul Fire is 0.7265625% of spell power. That's NEARLY 60% more efficient.

    Mostly I just drastically improved how the sim was using meta to more accurately reflect how we were already playing in game.

    Preliminary stat weights have mastery miles ahead of everything, crit/multi relative the same, and haste way in the dust. Vers is always vers no matter what, it isn't bad, it isn't really good either.

    When talking on the topic of Soul Fire usage, you also have to consider that Soul Fire in caster form is MUCH better than shadow bolt is, so you aren't just gaining the efficiency of ToC, you're gaining efficiency outside of meta as well. I'd also like to point out that if you DON'T run glyph of dark soul, then you have large excesses of DF that you can easily spend for movement between DS cooldowns. I can see the choice between glyph and not glyph depending heavily on fight mechanics.

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by gahddo View Post
    Things I found from looking at demo APL for 6 hours straight today:

    • Imp swarm is still a <1% dps loss in almost every case, for a massive burst increase.
    • Cata >>>>>>>>> demonbolt.
    • The most efficient demonbolt usage is with glyph of dark soul. You spam out as many as you can during the duration of DS, as your primary DF dump, replacing ToC.
    • Cata should be used during DS/Meta burst cycles.
    • Glyph of Dark Soul is a slight dps loss (~1.5%), mostly because trinkets last longer than 10 seconds right now. But, it also adds more flexibility to the spec as a whole, similar to imp swarm.
    • ToC is WAY more efficient than Soul Fire right now. ToC's Damage per demonic fury per execute time is 1.1505% of spell power. Soul Fire is 0.7265625% of spell power. That's NEARLY 60% more efficient.

    Mostly I just drastically improved how the sim was using meta to more accurately reflect how we were already playing in game.

    Preliminary stat weights have mastery miles ahead of everything, crit/multi relative the same, and haste way in the dust. Vers is always vers no matter what, it isn't bad, it isn't really good either.

    When talking on the topic of Soul Fire usage, you also have to consider that Soul Fire in caster form is MUCH better than shadow bolt is, so you aren't just gaining the efficiency of ToC, you're gaining efficiency outside of meta as well. I'd also like to point out that if you DON'T run glyph of dark soul, then you have large excesses of DF that you can easily spend for movement between DS cooldowns. I can see the choice between glyph and not glyph depending heavily on fight mechanics.
    thank you, that was just what I was looking for, too lazy to do my theorycraft

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