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  1. #841
    Numbers are so messed up now it's hard to say, but I'm pretty sure the glyph was mathed out to be a slight loss overall, it just allowed for super-hard hitting Cataclysms every time; but with Cataclysm no longer getting Meta benefits, I doubt if that matters so much anymore.

  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Numbers are so messed up now it's hard to say, but I'm pretty sure the glyph was mathed out to be a slight loss overall, it just allowed for super-hard hitting Cataclysms every time; but with Cataclysm no longer getting Meta benefits, I doubt if that matters so much anymore.
    Depends hows Demon Bolt turns out. I can't see myself ever taking Servitude, and if Cataclysm doesn't become the default until say 3+ targets then I foresee that the DS Glyph will become a staple with that.

    Loads of variables though, I was just offering food for thought.

  3. #843
    Quote Originally Posted by Alarinth View Post
    Not too sure on the validity of this claim, as I personally strongly dislike the demons while playing Destruction. I feel the pets doesn't even slightly live up to the name of the spec, and seem counterproductive to what I'm trying to do (Destroy things with a capital "D"), and I know several other warlocks feel the same. Now, for affli, it is different, but seeing as we're discussing GoSac, I'm assuming it is Destro anyways.
    I am one of the players who use it because they truly like it. I know I will use it even if they nerf it to the ground, because I can't stand those stupid pets as Destro or Affl, although I love the Felguard as Demo with his massive transmog weapon.

  4. #844
    I switched from Destro to Demo while leveling last night, and wow what a difference. Demo feels good. Also, when Hand of Guldan procs multistrike, it looks amazing. Soul Fire felt like a waste of time, but ToC destroyed Elites.

  5. #845
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I honestly cannot believe some of this stuff I'm reading from players who picked a pet class know what they were getting into.
    Sacrifice was a thing before they took it away in WotLK, it's not a new toy. Getting Sac back in Mists was just a return to normalcy for many of us. There's certainly no reason lore-wise why Sacrifice doesn't work.

    That we're ten years into Warcraft and they still have trouble seamlessly integrating pets into gameplay (multistrike trinket scaling being the latest derp) is a sign that Sacrifice is still useful in keeping us from being totally at the mercy of the QA department. Even minor bugs are still bugs that aren't subject to classes who aren't toting a pet around.

    Letting Hunters spec into Lone Wolf probably bodes well for Sacrifice's future. They have some balancing kinks to work out to make sure that people aren't forced into it, but otherwise I don't see any issue with it. They're obviously trying to expand gameplay options (as evidenced by stuff like Lone Wolf or Shadow Priests talenting into better direct damage), rather than reign people into some narrower concept.

    There's a ton of stuff that makes Warlocks cool that draw people to the class beyond having a ball-and-chain attached to your hip. "Pet class" is really just a platitude. They're a feature, not the feature.
    Last edited by Rethul Ur No; 2014-08-27 at 06:29 PM.

  6. #846
    Quote Originally Posted by Rethul Ur No View Post
    Sacrifice was a thing before they took it away in WotLK, it's not a new toy. Getting Sac back in Mists was just a return to normalcy for many of us. There's certainly no reason lore-wise why Sacrifice doesn't work.

    That we're ten years into Warcraft and they still have trouble seamlessly integrating pets into gameplay (multistrike trinket scaling being the latest derp) is a sign that Sacrifice is still useful in keeping us from being totally at the mercy of the QA department. Even minor bugs are still bugs that aren't subject to classes who aren't toting a pet around.

    Letting Hunters spec into Lone Wolf probably bodes well for Sacrifice's future. They have some balancing kinks to work out to make sure that people aren't forced into it, but otherwise I don't see any issue with it. They're obviously trying to expand gameplay options (as evidenced by stuff like Lone Wolf or Shadow Priests talenting into better direct damage), rather than reign people into some narrower concept.

    There's a ton of stuff that makes Warlocks cool that draw people to the class beyond having a ball-and-chain attached to your hip. "Pet class" is really just a platitude. They're a feature, not the feature.
    idd, sacrifice is actually older than any of our specs when it comes to the mechanics and rotations they currently have and it makes sense from a lore perspective as well, and it is an option we need until blizz makes the game totally bug free. ppl like to use the term "pet-class" about locks, but in reality its more of a "minion-class" using their pets anyway they like, not seeing them as anything more than tools and would gladly sacrifice them for more power, if you want to play an actual "pet class" play a hunter etc.

  7. #847
    I think picking a talent to avoid over exaggerated bugs is a pretty lame reason to take it, and for it to exist. Fair enough, you do have a lore reason and somehow enjoy the none existent added gameplay not having a pet offers. There's literally no reason to start banging out excuses why it should be the best under any circumstances. I think that's what pisses me off most.

  8. #848
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I think picking a talent to avoid over exaggerated bugs is a pretty lame reason to take it, and for it to exist. Fair enough, you do have a lore reason and somehow enjoy the none existent added gameplay not having a pet offers. There's literally no reason to start banging out excuses why it should be the best under any circumstances. I think that's what pisses me off most.
    To be fair, playing with a pet for most people boils down to putting the pet on assist and having no interaction with it beyond that point.

    Ideally the talents are balanced with Service having a slight advantage over Sup, and Sup having a slight advantage over Sacrifice. Small enough that you'd likely only see a difference over a large sample size. Obviously stuff like Havoc has skewed the results.

    Although I disagree with their reasoning behind the change from Sac to Synergy, at least Demonologists won't face a situation where they are potentially forced into Sac anymore.
    Last edited by Rethul Ur No; 2014-08-28 at 01:11 AM.

  9. #849
    Didn't the current beta have supremacy>service, I thing that's the right way to go, service shouldn't really be better than supremacy in a raid.
    The reason is because it's a burst cd, we should spec into service when we need to burst at some point (including aoe burst), it works well at thats and seems balanced for pvp.

    I honestly deslike having service >supermacy in raid cuz it's just another cd to use for the sake of using.

    As for synergy, don't like the idea, reactive talents are dumb when we already need to juggle between cds and trinket procs, at least with T16 2P we could sort of force it when dumping soul fire. The ammount isn't even good enuf to warant saving a felstorm during it, might as well just continue to use Felstorm on CD or aligned with dark soul.

    As for pets, I dislike how little they actually do for us, but when there isn't a big dude on my left I just feel something is missing (the horror of playing whenp laying any other class........).
    I like the idea of GoSac even in demonology, it's not all about the demon pets, I like to focus more on being the actual demon, not to mention never having an interupt is really frustrating in some fights.

    The things I'm gonna miss the most are dark apotheosis and carrion swarm (the troll kbs/interrupt),

    What attracted me to mop was the ability to tank, I found destro and affliction boring but demo is fun and complex enuf for my taste, not to mention how much fun it is to tank bosses. (flex, couldnt porb tank nm at this point, but no1 ).
    As for warlords what's I find attractive is....
    ....there's rly nothing at all, pvp focused, garisons are lame, and new talent row manages to be almost as boring as the lvl 90 one. Still havent been conviced to buy the expansion and at this rate probably won't

  10. #850
    I'm pretty sure it was asked in this thread at some point but here's the findings on Doom final tick crit and imps.

    The final half tick from doom scaling with haste CAN crit and does spawn Imps. Whether or not this would change how we apply the Doom I don't know but it is possible to get more imps to spawn by letting it fall off.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also just to verify ticks are physically lost (not necessarily damage done but tick chances) in 3 casts of Doom refreshing the DoT around 13s you get 13 ticks of Doom. Applying doom 3 times letting it fall of each time results in 15 ticks.

  11. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesireKT View Post
    I'm pretty sure it was asked in this thread at some point but here's the findings on Doom final tick crit and imps.

    The final half tick from doom scaling with haste CAN crit and does spawn Imps. Whether or not this would change how we apply the Doom I don't know but it is possible to get more imps to spawn by letting it fall off.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also just to verify ticks are physically lost (not necessarily damage done but tick chances) in 3 casts of Doom refreshing the DoT around 13s you get 13 ticks of Doom. Applying doom 3 times letting it fall of each time results in 15 ticks.
    have they fixed doom so now it actually does proper damage? or is it still stuck into stance dancing?

  12. #852
    I reported a week or two ago that meta weaving was fixed. Doom also doesn't snapshot mastery so if you get Mastery Procs or CD's they scale up your Doom's damage even without reapplying it or needing to be in Meta.

    Basically the way they redid our mastery was how they fixed Meta weaving and the loss of mastery coming out of Meta.

  13. #853
    Quote Originally Posted by DesireKT View Post
    I reported a week or two ago that meta weaving was fixed. Doom also doesn't snapshot mastery so if you get Mastery Procs or CD's they scale up your Doom's damage even without reapplying it or needing to be in Meta.

    Basically the way they redid our mastery was how they fixed Meta weaving and the loss of mastery coming out of Meta.
    It was actually to fix cataclysm primarily, the doom thing was never supposed to happen with old mastery either. Just a state snapshotting issue they never coded properly.

    On another topic, demonbolt is far better than cataclysm for a patchwerk now. It is, however, harder to fit into realistic fights. Anything with a decently good amount of movement cataclysm will probably win out on.

    Pets right now are *totally* fucked on beta. Demo testing, and more-over warlock testing in general, is pretty pointless presently. Most pets seem to now have 1:1 ap and sp ratios. Succubus/Shiv/Wrathguard the only notable ones that don't have that. Demo also has some weird buggish modifier crap going on resulting in pets having ~6-7% more damage than intended. So, pet damage is fucked for all warlock specs, and demo pets are *really fucked.*

  14. #854
    Quote Originally Posted by chynonm View Post
    Didn't the current beta have supremacy>service, I thing that's the right way to go, service shouldn't really be better than supremacy in a raid.
    The reason is because it's a burst cd, we should spec into service when we need to burst at some point (including aoe burst), it works well at thats and seems balanced for pvp.

    I honestly deslike having service >supermacy in raid cuz it's just another cd to use for the sake of using.

    As for synergy, don't like the idea, reactive talents are dumb when we already need to juggle between cds and trinket procs, at least with T16 2P we could sort of force it when dumping soul fire. The ammount isn't even good enuf to warant saving a felstorm during it, might as well just continue to use Felstorm on CD or aligned with dark soul.

    As for pets, I dislike how little they actually do for us, but when there isn't a big dude on my left I just feel something is missing (the horror of playing whenp laying any other class........).
    I like the idea of GoSac even in demonology, it's not all about the demon pets, I like to focus more on being the actual demon, not to mention never having an interupt is really frustrating in some fights.

    The things I'm gonna miss the most are dark apotheosis and carrion swarm (the troll kbs/interrupt),

    What attracted me to mop was the ability to tank, I found destro and affliction boring but demo is fun and complex enuf for my taste, not to mention how much fun it is to tank bosses. (flex, couldnt porb tank nm at this point, but no1 ).
    As for warlords what's I find attractive is....
    ....there's rly nothing at all, pvp focused, garisons are lame, and new talent row manages to be almost as boring as the lvl 90 one. Still havent been conviced to buy the expansion and at this rate probably won't
    Passive talents should never ever beat active ones. The idea of needing burst for a phase went pretty much obsolete with Spine, it basically only comes up as a strategy now when people start to overgear a fight and want to ignore a hard part that should be otherwise doable.

  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Passive talents should never ever beat active ones.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    The idea of needing burst for a phase went pretty much obsolete with Spine
    Perhaps. But a certain encounter next tier does come to mind. Hopefully blizzard doesn't go full retard again.

  16. #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    The idea of needing burst for a phase went pretty much obsolete with Spine, it basically only comes up as a strategy now when people start to overgear a fight and want to ignore a hard part that should be otherwise doable.
    Skeer / Xaril has always required quite hefty burst. Megaera on 10HC was an absolutely brutal burstcheck (some guilds wiped intentionally if all trinkets didn't align in opener) - I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying it isn't completely gone, and probably won't be either. And not as a means to skip a mechanic, but as an intentional design choice in certain fights. And honestly, I love it. Burst checks are damn fun.
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  17. #857
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Passive talents should never ever beat active ones. The idea of needing burst for a phase went pretty much obsolete with Spine, it basically only comes up as a strategy now when people start to overgear a fight and want to ignore a hard part that should be otherwise doable.
    About burst phases. They said On Use trinkets will reappear. That implies burn phases might be back(?)
    Last edited by Rayaleith; 2014-08-28 at 08:40 AM.
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  18. #858
    Moderator Alarinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayaleith View Post
    About burst phases. They said One Use trinkets will reappear. That implies burn phases might be back(?)
    Imo this is very exciting. I've been missing those trinkets, so badly!
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  19. #859
    Quote Originally Posted by Alarinth View Post
    Imo this is very exciting. I've been missing those trinkets, so badly!
    Yay I can dig out the /cast Dark Soul /use 14 Macro!

  20. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Yay I can dig out the /cast Dark Soul /use 14 Macro!
    Don't you worry, I bet they will fix that by giving trinkets 1m30s/2m30s cooldowns.

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