WoD Beta Demonology Discussion

[DesireKT]

IIRC its 48 fury every 2 minutes for the Felgaurd GoServ adding 20% to GoSup makes them about equal. I hope they just scrap current Demo GoSac and make you do more damage or more crit or however they balance out the other specs GoSac and increase fury you generate by X%. Or You while in combat you Generate 25 Fury every 10 seconds as the biggest downside was always the fury lost IMO.

[xskarma]

Yeah I hope this GoSup change means changes to Sacrifice are on the table too, cause it's just silly that we're stuck with such a bad option right now.

I don't really understand the fixation with Demonology being pushed as a pet spec like BM, when it's just as reasonable to state that Demo is the Metamorphosis spec where you turn into a demon. BM doesn't have that, but I see no reason why Demo wouldn't get some Metamorphosis benefit from GoSac and a fury building part of the talent to make up for lack of pet.

Guess Blizzard just wants to make the talent easy to understand, which this option wouldn't be. But it's like Shadowburn mana regen they took away, it's just thoughtless things that eventually will need to be fixed. Just a question of how much we need to bother them about it and when they get around to it.

[DesireKT]

The current Sacrifice is just terrible and there hasn't even been a build that it's worked on yet. It would make DoT timer that shows ticks a mandatory Addon so you don't use Sac when doom ticks are upcoming. At least we're slowly getting some information now as opposed to nothing.

[xskarma]

The current Sacrifice is just terrible and there hasn't even been a build that it's worked on yet. It would make DoT timer that shows ticks a mandatory Addon so you don't use Sac when doom ticks are upcoming. At least we're slowly getting some information now as opposed to nothing.

Well it's not working with Charred Remains for Destro either, so we can hope that's enough incentive to look at the talent and fix things once and for all.

[DesireKT]

I'm expecting the crit bonus is going to be removed and it reverted to a damage bonus again like live. Making it +X% for any stat just makes scaling problem. I doubt they would try to make all specs have a version like demos because then we wouldn't have the petless option which would upset too many people.

[Jessicka]

I'm expecting the crit bonus is going to be removed and it reverted to a damage bonus again like live. Making it +X% for any stat just makes scaling problem. I doubt they would try to make all specs have a version like demos because then we wouldn't have the petless option which would upset too many people.

The +%damage is causing massive scaling problems which is exactly why they're changing it to a stat%. This is because a damage% causes issues as pets do not scale with Mastery for Dest/Aff, making Mastery more valuable without a pet as +damage includes Mastery bonuses. By switching to +<any stat other than Mastery> that problem is avoided. Versatility actually seems like a possible option here, and it kinda makes sense.

[DesireKT]

%Damage scales better as the the expansion goes on but it doesn't completely destroy gearing like %Stat does. At least to the current extent 35% crit is destroying the spec because it's completely skewing the secondary values for the other stats way beyond normal values. %Versatility is basically the exact same thing as %damage, but instead it makes you take less damage and do more healing as well. So if they do go with Versatility I was right.

The only other thing I can see being a real option is sacrifice your pet to gain X ability that you put into your rotation that equates to what Pet Dps would have been.

[Kashii]

... Versatility actually seems like a possible option here, and it kinda makes sense.

Why Versatility and not Multi-strike?

[Roujeaux]

base SB should had been 2.0, since haste is going to be not a big thing for us.

Or at the most a 2.25 sec base Shadowbolt. The slow as molasses feel of caster form Demo keeps me from really enjoying the spec as well. I think the Molten Core perk would be better off as a base cast time/cost Soul Fire perk. A 12 sec cd Hand of Gul'dan might feel nice too. Speed things up a bit without speed them up too much.

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So, can someone with beta access go ask the devs on the beta forums, or more likely going to get answered if tweeted, if they would properly change our aoe to ranged? I know, I know, some of the player base would not like the change, but it is a huge QoL issue for mythic raiders =(

Currently, they are trying to make ranged classes stay ranged, and be turrets (mainly). No to mention, abilities aimed solely at Ranged, even if they are in melee. This means that we are currently the only class that runs into melee in order to AoE, and then have to leave. Not to mention in mythic, we will be taking damage going into melee, specially with our lowered survivibility. It is not a defining aspect of the class, rather an annoyance. A change would be a huge QoL in favor of the Demo Lock.

Only thing I can think of right off hand without adding an extra button would be to let Hellfire/Immolation Aura require an enemy target (1 target limit for Immolation Aura) but also allow it to self target. That way you keep the traditional masochistic effect for Hellfire, while simultaneously giving Demo a ranged aoe option.

On an unrelated note, I think returning Fel Flame and allowing it to turn into Carrion Swarm minus the knockback & cooldown would be a nice addition to close range Meta aoe. Such a cool spell that was

[Nerraw]

On an unrelated note, I think returning Fel Flame and allowing it to turn into Carrion Swarm minus the knockback & cooldown would be a nice addition to close range Meta aoe. Such a cool spell that was

But that's too complicated for new players!

[DesireKT]

Or at the most a 2.25 sec base Shadowbolt. The slow as molasses feel of caster form Demo keeps me from really enjoying the spec as well. I think the Molten Core perk would be better off as a base cast time/cost Soul Fire perk. A 12 sec cd Hand of Gul'dan might feel nice too. Speed things up a bit without speed them up too much.

Slow Shadowbolts they are killing me too feels like Chaos Bolt with no reward!

[Lucidious]

Agreed, slow shadow bolts need to go. I'm all for casters casting but a 2 sec base cast time shadow bolt would make the spec feel so much better imo.

[Deleted]

Agreed, slow shadow bolts need to go. I'm all for casters casting but a 2 sec base cast time shadow bolt would make the spec feel so much better imo.

2 second base on Shadow Bolt and ditch the Improved Molten Core perk for something new, preferably more damage. My premade lvl 100 has a 0.88s cast time on Soul Fire, this is ludicrous.

[Roujeaux]

Why Versatility and not Multi-strike?

The less RNG the better imo.

[Jessicka]

2 second base on Shadow Bolt and ditch the Improved Molten Core perk for something new, preferably more damage. My premade lvl 100 has a 0.88s cast time on Soul Fire, this is ludicrous.

I like MC giving the faster cast, it makes it feel more rewarding and actually noticable - I do think the perk takes it a little too far though. I'm completely fine with 2.5s Shadow Bolts, I've cast them for 7 years now without any problems, I see no reason so change.

[Deleted]

I like MC giving the faster cast, it makes it feel more rewarding and actually noticable - I do think the perk takes it a little too far though. I'm completely fine with 2.5s Shadow Bolts, I've cast them for 7 years now without any problems, I see no reason so change.

It's too much though. 1.5s would feel better than 0.8s and allow Soul Fire to still scale with haste. Hitting the GCD just feels clunky.

Regarding Shadow Bolt, I guess it's a personal preference. You might like them, but they feel sluggish to me. My only gripe with Demonology is that it feels slow outside of Meta. Demonic Fury generation is also a pain without high levels of haste.

I tried the Shadowmoon Burial Grounds instance as Demo, and the first boss has an add that spawns every 20s or so which needs to be nuked down asap. Demo just cannot generate enough resources to facilitate a bursty target swap in that time frame.

I'd personally much prefer seeing the 20% damage perk on shadowbolt traded for a reduction in cast time. Would make the spec feel a bit more fluid, for sure.

[Depravitty]

I like MC giving the faster cast, it makes it feel more rewarding and actually noticable - I do think the perk takes it a little too far though. I'm completely fine with 2.5s Shadow Bolts, I've cast them for 7 years now without any problems, I see no reason so change.

but the cast time has been going down on them with haste which we don't really care for anymore.

[Jessicka]

but the cast time has been going down on them with haste which we don't really care for anymore.

I've not seen any maths that demonstrates that. We had the same concerns about Touch of Chaos being a 1s GCD back in early MoP when we were casting that instead of MC Soul Fire in Meta causing a devaluation of Haste; it still proved to be a valuable stat. I am quite certain it will still be valuable for Fury generation, Imp spawning, and MC procs - the same things that give it value today.

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It's too much though. 1.5s would feel better than 0.8s and allow Soul Fire to still scale with haste. Hitting the GCD just feels clunky.

Regarding Shadow Bolt, I guess it's a personal preference. You might like them, but they feel sluggish to me. My only gripe with Demonology is that it feels slow outside of Meta. Demonic Fury generation is also a pain without high levels of haste.

I tried the Shadowmoon Burial Grounds instance as Demo, and the first boss has an add that spawns every 20s or so which needs to be nuked down asap. Demo just cannot generate enough resources to facilitate a bursty target swap in that time frame.

I'd personally much prefer seeing the 20% damage perk on shadowbolt traded for a reduction in cast time. Would make the spec feel a bit more fluid, for sure.

Switching like that has always been a problem for Demo. Would be nice to have a particular tool for that, as Affliction has Soul Swap and Destro Havoc, but can't be good at everything I guess. I think that's the real problem, Demo's niche right now doesn't really exist.

[Skayth]

Switching like that has always been a problem for Demo. Would be nice to have a particular tool for that, as Affliction has Soul Swap and Destro Havoc, but can't be good at everything I guess. I think that's the real problem, Demo's niche right now doesn't really exist.

Technically, its niche is movement... but with 1 min cd on KJC... yea...

[Deleted]

Switching like that has always been a problem for Demo. Would be nice to have a particular tool for that, as Affliction has Soul Swap and Destro Havoc, but can't be good at everything I guess. I think that's the real problem, Demo's niche right now doesn't really exist.

except any version of soul swap, be it soulburn:soul swap or normal soul swap, wont be worth using due to the shard cost and the fact that you save 1 gcd pr shard used, ofc its still there and it is an option, but not an option any proper lock would take but i will agree that demo needs a niche, and i wouldnt exactly say that being able to dps somewhat reliably while moving is a niche, if fel flame comes back, and there should be a good chance of that, then that niche goes out the window but maybe demo's ncihe, according to blizz, is that it doesnt suck at anything and with the changes to afflic, certain promotes that as afflic's multidotting, in its current state on beta, will revolve around manually applying your dots.