WoD Beta Destruction Discussion

[Baconeggcheese]

Well in my testing in raids, I was nearly always hanging out around the tanks before adds came into fights. I can't really explain any difference between our results.

I also rarely play with other Warlocks in the same raid so all of my comparisons are basically made against other classes, which we felt weak against; I'm not particularly comparing across Warlock specs.

I don't have the luxury of a raid who's willing to actually test in fair conditions (premades and what have you) so I tend not to use raid results but objective testing methods like the shat stuff. and y'know, 2-3 minute pulls not exactly best way to test balance.

Obviously that's going to have different results than what we end up in during raid, but its an easy way to measure potential before dealing with mechanics.

So I have sat there on the single target dummy with all 3 specs with all sorts of talent combinations and I tend to see similar results every time. The class itself seems balanced within itself beyond the obviously terrible things (servitude) so it's more just where they want us to sit vs other classes in situations. And I have a feeling this is pretty much intended.

[Crisius]

Well in my testing in raids, I was nearly always hanging out around the tanks before adds came into fights. I can't really explain any difference between our results.

Gonna have to back this up a bit. Our Destruction warlocks during the mythic testing were usually barely ahead of the tanks on pure single-target, especially if movement was involved. The cleave potential is good though.

[Xenocastra]

target dummy

There's your answer.

From my experience, in actual raids, destruction single target ends up in the middle of the meters, with movement completely destroying it(with charred remains; i've not bothered with alternatives on movement, switched specs instead).

Edited the misunderstanding.

[Baconeggcheese]

There's your answer.

From my experience, in actual raids, destruction single target ends up in the middle of the meters, with movement completely destroying it(with charred remains; i've not bothered with alternatives on movement, switched specs instead).

I'm confused, you quoted 2 completely separate points as if they belonged together.

2-3 minute pulls is in reference to live raid testing.

target dummy has nothing to do with that.

[Novx]

I'm confused, you quoted 2 completely separate points as if they belonged together.

2-3 minute pulls is in reference to live raid testing.

target dummy has nothing to do with that.

Well yeah, if you quote something completely out of context it helps your argument.

You dummy

Why would you call us dummies =0

[Adultxo]

Sorry, I've been going through the posts and lightly reading, so please excuse me if I've missed this.

From my understanding, destruction has become a weaker spec for warlocks. What is the alternative? Affliction or Demonology?

[Baconeggcheese]

Sorry, I've been going through the posts and lightly reading, so please excuse me if I've missed this.

From my understanding, destruction has become a weaker spec for warlocks. What is the alternative? Affliction or Demonology?

It looks like demos gonna be thee spec if things keep going as is.

[Adultxo]

It looks like demos gonna be thee spec if things keep going as is.

Well thats no fun, I have NFI how to play demo... I was hoping it would have been Aff :P oh wells

[Baconeggcheese]

We're still far away enough that anything could happen. So I'd just play it by ear.

[Deleted]

You still have months before t17 mythic opens, plenty of time to learn Demo.

[Zharradan]

bonus set for destro needs a %chance buff

[NytemareRulez]

L100 talents kind of grind my gears. There's so many strings attached to each one, they feel like a chore. Even the passive one, demonic servitude comes with the caveat that the greater demons still keep their 10 min cooldown (which means if something kills it or it gets unsummoned for whatever reason, you're stuck with a cooldown and a worthless talent.)

Might be a good expansion for Demonology, though -- perma Infernal/Abyssal could compensate for a lack of AoE

I don't know what happens if one dies (should test out and see), but they still use the same spell they had without the talent, still says 10min but I could switch freely between the two, with just a simple cast time to summon it, like any other demon. So without testing what happens if they die, could just be they need to make the two spells tooltip update when you take that talent.

[Deleted]

A small band-aid / fix to Destruction DPS being extremely susceptible to movement:
Backdraft: Makes the next 2 incinerates instant casts or the next Chaos Bolt able to be cast while moving.

That would hopefully also make Conflagrate usage more interesting.

Would it break something?

[Deleted]

Latest simulationcraft has Destro using rain of fire and mannoroth's fury on single target: http://downloads.simulationcraft.org....html#player32 (mythic gear), http://downloads.simulationcraft.org....html#player32 (normal gear).

[Baconeggcheese]

Latest simulationcraft has Destro using rain of fire and mannoroth's fury on single target: http://downloads.simulationcraft.org....html#player32 (mythic gear), http://downloads.simulationcraft.org....html#player32 (normal gear).

Every time I look at the sample sequence I gotta wonder wtf the sim is doing in a lot of these. They play very poorly.

[Xorn]

Every time I look at the sample sequence I gotta wonder wtf the sim is doing in a lot of these. They play very poorly.

That, and it's not using the DS glyph, which is a clear gain for Destro. 8 CB casts under DS > 5-6 CBs + 1-2 Incinerate.

[Berthold]

what about suggesting these "obvious" improvements at the respective contact points? It is a community project after all...

[Jessicka]

Every time I look at the sample sequence I gotta wonder wtf the sim is doing in a lot of these. They play very poorly.

These both seem very obvious and intuitive, so I'd expect that those making the APL would have tried them. If they haven't, that would be weird, but fair enough, if they have and they've found using MF/RoF every minute to be superior to AD, then while that's both hilarious and unexpected, it wouldn't be the first time they've uncovered something like that.

That, and it's not using the DS glyph, which is a clear gain for Destro. 8 CB casts under DS > 5-6 CBs + 1-2 Incinerate.

Not necessarily, to get your 4 CBs in 10s means having to fit in other variables like having sufficient Haste, capping Embers, letting Immolate drop, or using Backdraft charges to fit them in, before you even think about Trinkets; all of those might be a net loss overall especially after movement is considered. It's much more realistic in early gear to expect to be able to cast 3, which means 6 every 2 minutes, no more than without the Glyph.

[Tya]

I think you're forgetting that CB is a 2.5 sec cast by default now. 4 CBs per 10s wouldn't really require any special amount of haste.

[Baconeggcheese]

These both seem very obvious and intuitive, so I'd expect that those making the APL would have tried them. If they haven't, that would be weird, but fair enough, if they have and they've found using MF/RoF every minute to be superior to AD, then while that's both hilarious and unexpected, it wouldn't be the first time they've uncovered something like that.

No the RoF thing is normal, you can see right on the tool tip how much dmg it does.

If you look at the sample sequence for all 3 specs it does things that I can't imagine ever doing in live play.