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  1. #41
    I think if you want to gear up fast in WOD, you should consider doing group runs.

    problem with personal loot in regular dungeons and heroic versions:

    - forcing personal loot will cause the loot to be divided awkwardly, 1 guys decked after 1 day of farm in a guild run, the healer lacks 6 items including 2 trinkets.

    - Having the option to change to personal loot won't work, situation A: 1 guy gets party leader, doesn't change to personal loot because he is doing this with 2 friends helping their members win items, situation B: same group with vote, you will lose as they are 3 voting no, while you and maybe the 5th vote yes.

    to fix this you need to trust in the wow playerbase, which is a hopeless case at best, in most pugs people will need for items they want for offspec without any consideration that another player need it for mainspec, not because they're ninja looters, but because they wanted the item for they're other spec and mainspec/offspec is often equal to many players.
    It's hard to change the mind of a 10 year veteran player that has done this since vanilla, to do it differently. I don't want to use the word stupid, but in this case it's valid, there is a lot of stupid players out there, who don't think about the consequences of their actions. For many the item hunt is the most fun part of the game, if someone comes a long and rips it out of your hand (like hunters needing on str trinket for ilvls or warriors for agi once for the same reason) it hurts.
    Nowdays I've probably got 100k looted blue and epic quality items on this char alone, so items are no longer of that meaning for me, but in my early years of the one of the things that brought me into raiding was the thought of looking as bad ass as those veteran players roaming the field with mc/bwl quality loot.

    That's my take on it at least.

  2. #42
    Brewmaster Nurvus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleoseven23 View Post
    To clarify everybody hate ninjas. But as usual there is always rules to let it slide.

    the general rule of blizzard internment is : Under master loot, no actions will be taken against the offenders.

    So word of warning, never raid under master loot if you don't know the people.

    Blizzard will not take any actions against it, and in essence promote the loot master ninjas.

    This was confirmed by none the less 4 different GMs, when as they say " moral doesn't matter in some cases"



    So be stress free and be careful of where and what you are putting yourself into.

    Sources from difference realms, all over wow community

    Peace
    You are partially correct.
    If you make the leader say what the loot rules are, such as what is reserved or not, and then he goes against what he said, he will face consequences.
    If a leader has the raid on group loot from the start and through all bosses, and then changes to master loot just before that one boss that drops a mount or something, he will face consequences.

    But just in case, always make the leader say what the loot rules are, and make sure to not let him off the hook if he refuses. You shouldn't feel guilty if you cause the group to disband under those conditions.
    You can even invite everyone into your own group with one less person - the would-be ninja.
    Last edited by Nurvus; 2014-06-09 at 06:39 PM.
    Why did you create a new thread? Use the search function and post in existing threads!
    Why did you necro a thread?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    And this is why personal loot should be on all difficulties.
    Personal loot? you mean the one currently being used in lfr?

    That is the worst loot system ever invented...

    I'm not sure why anyone would EVER willingly use that system if they had a choice.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Have you ever seen that random guy in trade chat type in all caps: "DONT GROUP WITH <xyz player> THEY ARE A NINJA!! DONT GROUP..." you get the idea. I think those guys are the most pathetic of players. They try to diminish the play experience of other players simply out of spite of not getting an item they wanted in a raid group.

    I've literally seen someone spam this message for hours in trade chat (after doing things out in the world of course), and I told them to stop whining and suck it up. Its just plain pathetic to do something like that.
    What a surprise, Jaylock doesn't understand the concept of "shame."

  5. #45
    In order to ninja loot something you have to had not been a person tagged to the Mob that died, and thus not entitled to that loot. In WoW only people who are tagged to the kill can get loot, therefore anyone who gets the loot thus was entitled to said loot.

    Being a loot ninja or a scammer are two different things. But since the game is designed to eliminate the loot ninja you're only left with scams. And obviously Blizzard is gonna need in game proof of a scam, otherwise it's a he said-she said type of situation.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    You are intentionally raiding under someone with full control over the loot.
    If you fail to understand and accept the consequences of that, then quite frankly you are an idiot.

    Talk to them beforehand, and if they insist on master loot then that should be pretty obvious as to what the result could be.

    This is pretty much why I never run with anyone who promises "free rolls" on something I know everyone wants.
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  7. #47
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Have you ever seen that random guy in trade chat type in all caps: "DONT GROUP WITH <xyz player> THEY ARE A NINJA!! DONT GROUP..." you get the idea. I think those guys are the most pathetic of players.
    Agree, with no more server communities we should just go the whole hog and remove guilds.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zabusasan View Post
    Personal loot? you mean the one currently being used in lfr?
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabusasan View Post
    That is the worst loot system ever invented...
    No, the loot system of LFR DS was the worst loot system ever invented.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabusasan View Post
    I'm not sure why anyone would EVER willingly use that system if they had a choice.
    That's the thing; I'd remove the choice.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleoseven23 View Post
    To clarify everybody hate ninjas. But as usual there is always rules to let it slide.

    the general rule of blizzard internment is : Under master loot, no actions will be taken against the offenders.

    So word of warning, never raid under master loot if you don't know the people.

    Blizzard will not take any actions against it, and in essence promote the loot master ninjas.

    This was confirmed by none the less 4 different GMs, when as they say " moral doesn't matter in some cases"



    So be stress free and be careful of where and what you are putting yourself into.

    Sources from difference realms, all over wow community

    Peace
    Basically what they say is that if you go into a raid, make sure the loot rules are clarified. If the RL goes against that, then you may have a case. But if you never ask, than you stand the chance of getting your loot ninjad.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    RNG is RNG. Under personal or group loot that mage might not see any weapon for the entire patch cycle. Not an argument.

    RNG is RNG. With group loot your bosses will still drop Agi mail with no Hunters and Enhancements in your group. Not an argument.

    Please don't try to make it look like I'm saying something I'm not. Ta.
    1. With group loot a group that raids together week after week will be better off. Will stuff still drop that no one needs? Sure. Will the group overall increase their gear faster? You bet. Just because there are exceptions (like everyone getting a piece of personal loot off one boss kill) does not mean that it isn't an argument. Unlike you I actually experience both systems. I know what works from experience.

    2. If I wanted to make it look like you were saying something you weren’t I would do this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert
    I am the great Firebert!!!
    So don't accuse me of doing something that I obviously wasn't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Agree, with no more server communities we should just go the whole hog and remove guilds.
    Man you are full of it. Social ties are the strongest way to keep people subbed. Guilds do that. Your, "I want to solo-queue everything" would just discourage social grouping which is the best way to keep people subbed. Want solo,? Go play a single player game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    That's the thing; I'd remove the choice.
    Personal loot makes sense with LFR. Heck it even makes half sense with Flex because alot of pugging is being done at that level. But normal and heroic should have group loot because those difficulties are meant for organized guild type groups. Ask any raiding guild if they want personal loot or regular loot and you will get a resounding, "Regular Loot!"

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Personal loot makes sense with LFR. Heck it even makes half sense with Flex because alot of pugging is being done at that level. But normal and heroic should have group loot because those difficulties are meant for organized guild type groups. Ask any raiding guild if they want personal loot or regular loot and you will get a resounding, "Regular Loot!"
    Sucks having personally loot and having to sell items you have no use for, but a friend could have used =/ Great for dealing with self centered dbags who ruin the experience of the majority, but shitty for those who care about the community. I hope preformed heroic dungeon groups get the option. Sucks wanting to play casually but get held back by a minority of dbag soloist griefers that give "casuals" a bad name especially the no lifers that hide behind the casual label because they cant get along with others.

  11. #51
    So then what is considered ninja looting then? I mean ninja looting to Blizzard, that will get them to take action.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    Personal loot makes sense with LFR. Heck it even makes half sense with Flex because alot of pugging is being done at that level. But normal and heroic should have group loot because those difficulties are meant for organized guild type groups. Ask any raiding guild if they want personal loot or regular loot and you will get a resounding, "Regular Loot!"
    Mythic (Heroic) will have group loot only.

    Normal (Flex) and Heroic (Normal) are extremely PUGgable and, therefore, will have the option of individual loot. And, before you argue, I'll point out that I've full cleared every normal-mode MoP raid (as well as most raids in previous expansions) in a PUG. It makes perfect sense to allow individual loot for those difficulties because you will see non-guild groups running them.

  13. #53
    They are willing to help if you get a screen shot of em stating it's NOT ML and they change it. Though outside of you getting proof that they will not change it into ML, sadly you're out of luck as OP said. Ask as soon as you join, screen shot it.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakilorne View Post
    They are willing to help if you get a screen shot of em stating it's NOT ML and they change it. Though outside of you getting proof that they will not change it into ML, sadly you're out of luck as OP said. Ask as soon as you join, screen shot it.
    Screenshots have never been accepted by Blizzard for anything other than, MAYBE, bug reports.

    As long as the raid leader states the loot rules in raid chat, Blizzard can check the logs and find it. That's the ONLY way Blizzard can take action. Screenshots don't work.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Agree, with no more server communities we should just go the whole hog and remove guilds.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Yes.

    No, the loot system of LFR DS was the worst loot system ever invented.

    That's the thing; I'd remove the choice.
    I would much rather be ninja looted against then get a single failbag again in my life.

    The system basicly goes against everything that is teamwork. You cant share loot, you cant hand it out to the ones that need it, you cant trade it. The problem with this is that getting the actual item someone needs is very very low. Giving people tons of loot half of them cant even DE.

    Its CRAP. Maybe for someone like you who only raids lfr and doesnt give a shit about anyone else in your group its fine. I still think it sucks, even in lfr.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    Mythic (Heroic) will have group loot only.

    Normal (Flex) and Heroic (Normal) are extremely PUGgable and, therefore, will have the option of individual loot. And, before you argue, I'll point out that I've full cleared every normal-mode MoP raid (as well as most raids in previous expansions) in a PUG. It makes perfect sense to allow individual loot for those difficulties because you will see non-guild groups running them.
    But its a choice is it not? You can have personal loot or group loot options right? I'm fine with having the choice there, but to force personal would suck royal ass.

  17. #57
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c313 View Post
    So then what is considered ninja looting then? I mean ninja looting to Blizzard, that will get them to take action.

    there is no such thing as a ninja looter in blizzards eye.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleoseven23 View Post
    To clarify everybody hate ninjas. But as usual there is always rules to let it slide.

    the general rule of blizzard internment is : Under master loot, no actions will be taken against the offenders.

    So word of warning, never raid under master loot if you don't know the people.

    Blizzard will not take any actions against it, and in essence promote the loot master ninjas.

    This was confirmed by none the less 4 different GMs, when as they say " moral doesn't matter in some cases"



    So be stress free and be careful of where and what you are putting yourself into.

    Sources from difference realms, all over wow community

    Peace
    The meaning of Master loot in ingame terms = The Raid Leader OWNS all the loot. He/She can do whatever the fuck they want with it. Concepts like 'fair' are irrelevant.

    Its not possible to 'ninjaloot' the loot, when you own all the loot in the first place.

    Rare exceptions may occur if there were specific, textual agreements made in advance. Such as what GDKP runs use, whereby the RL puts all the loot distribution rules into raid chat before the raid begins.

    But if you just join a raid and its set to 'master loot' - and no explicit agreement is made ingame via raid chat text regarding loot distribution - you effectively are giving the RL total and absolute discretion to do with the loot whatever the hell they see fit.
    Last edited by TyrianFC; 2014-06-10 at 03:54 PM.

  19. #59
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    I solved this by countering the issue. I only run pugs I create, and I keep looting open for everyone. No reserves, no bullshit. More buds.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    But its a choice is it not? You can have personal loot or group loot options right? I'm fine with having the choice there, but to force personal would suck royal ass.
    Yes, it's absolutely a choice. Most guild groups will go for the regular loot style while pugs will hopefully use individual loot more often than not.

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