View Poll Results: Has graphics ruined J-RPG Games?

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  • Yes

    6 10.91%
  • No

    32 58.18%
  • I'm not sure, but it seems like games today do lack something from before

    16 29.09%
  • I'm not sure, but I don't know if I agree

    1 1.82%
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  1. #21
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
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    What you call graphics. I call art direction.

    And yes the art direction has contributed to my distaste of the modern JRPG. Mostly from Square Enix's side of the fence.

    When everyone looks like freakish, genetically engineered, J-Pop stars, I have a slight disinterest in the fantasy at hand, that is a very narrow taste you're gunning for there. This trend began with Final Fantasy 10 and I have stayed clear of the series on that merit alone. The prior cast of heroes in the games were cartoonish enough to represent anyone with enough distancing from proper human form. With nine easily pulling ahead for the top marks in character variations and style, seven a worthy second and the others after keeping to a more uniformly human cast, but still with the added benefits of low graphic quality to allow the players mind to form their own interpretations.

    These current mutations fall so hard into the uncanny valley It disturbs me. Plus they're badly written, but you asked about 'graphics'.


    Graphics alone do not make it bad, it's how they've used the graphics, admittedly for some truly stunning cut-scenes and game environments, but the character art and the story problems stem alot deeper than something so shallow.

    A return to a more cartoonish, anime style would do them some good, if you're going to write, unrealistic characters, the characters need to be unrealistic enough to merit those choices. Since no one in Square Enix seems to be able to write a believable human being without going off into existential crisis land every 5 minutes, the art direction they've chosen does them no credit.
    Writing an anime story and using very near human looking models, doesn't work. At least not without decent adaptation.

    Look at the 'Tales of' games for worthy examples. They know their storylines are pure otaku bait, and embrace that style wholely with cell shaded 3D models and anime cutscenes. And it works for what they set out to accomplish.
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  2. #22
    I can honestly name more JRPG games that stick to the old real turn-based combat style, than the ones using shitty action-turn-based systems like the new Final Fantasy games have. The ones who stick to the old turn based style also have good music and stories.

    JRPG as a genre overall is still fine. Final Fantasy and the Tales series are not the only JRPG games out there.
    Last edited by Chelly; 2014-06-08 at 01:50 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    What "ruined" JRPG games was the gameplay became secondary to spectacle.

    Final Fantasy 3 isn't a masterpiece for it's story, though it's fairly charming in that regard, it's the gameplay. It still holds up as superb execution. Chrono Trigger as well- that gameplay and the interacting systems are still excellent, deep and in service of nothing but game mechanics.

    The "showmanship" of JRPGs post Final Fantasy 10 (watershed) overtook the fundamental purpose of being of the genre. JRPGs became indulgent, misguided concepts like story were allowed proliferation, attempts at more reactive gameplay were introduced, etc. Thus leading to the current state of JRPGs which can mostly be called generic and shallow in the modern era with only a few (now aging) exceptions.
    It kind of sounds like you are only talking about Final Fantasy games.

  4. #24
    I think it has the book problem where many shaders and textures leave your imagination unchallenged and therefore bored compared to old JRPGs which featured muddy graphics that caused eye-cansur.
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  5. #25
    Epic! Miuku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgon View Post
    What do you think?
    I think console music, and especially Japanese, is ridiculously overrated compared to the musical gems of 80's and 90's on various home computers.

    I guess it comes down to the fact that much of the current generation of Internet users are so young that they never lived through that period and much of the music of that time is completely "unknown" to them which also reflects in the amount of remixes and other media on Youtube and various sites.
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  6. #26
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    I think your examples are incidental, OP. It's more a case of FF (Tales is guilty too) trying to fix what wasn't broken by pushing out these super actiony sequels to go with their pretty new graphics. They're trying to tap into a new batch of players which they presume won't enjoy classic RPG combat. Couple that with the sort of uninspired stories they push out nowadays and yeah, the bigger JRPG franchises do seem less compelling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    Nope, improved graphics are a natural byproduct of the advancement in computer technology.

    What had ruined JRPG games is the bizarre need to forget everything which made them popular and try to become more "Actiony" in an attempt to appeal to a wider audience, sadly all this does is alienate the audience that has carried them this far.
    Very much this too.

  7. #27
    You're not playing the right games. Stop focusing on a single company as the games you mentioned all come from Square Enix.

  8. #28
    I don' t think it is.

  9. #29
    I think more people need to realize that there are more JRPGs out there then the main stream ones. Sqaure Enix is not the entire genre people.

    I would say JRPGs in general are more healthy right now then they have been since the snes era.(tbh I only put the snes era ahead because of the classics it had, overall this past gen had 5x the amount of good jrpgs that the snes era did.)

    But these people who complain typically don't even own Vitas or 3ds to actually play them, and don't even realize all of the great ones that have come out on the ps3 and are still coming out.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2014-06-08 at 08:15 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    I think your examples are incidental, OP. It's more a case of FF (Tales is guilty too) trying to fix what wasn't broken by pushing out these super actiony sequels to go with their pretty new graphics. They're trying to tap into a new batch of players which they presume won't enjoy classic RPG combat. Couple that with the sort of uninspired stories they push out nowadays and yeah, the bigger JRPG franchises do seem less compelling.



    Very much this too.
    I am inclined to agree, this makes more sense now that you guys brought it up!
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  11. #31
    I never understood the JRPG fad.

    I always found them obnoxious and over the top. I think that's what's killing them. They have one or two good things about them, but eventually it becomes just too much crap over and over again.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    I think your examples are incidental, OP. It's more a case of FF (Tales is guilty too) trying to fix what wasn't broken by pushing out these super actiony sequels to go with their pretty new graphics. They're trying to tap into a new batch of players which they presume won't enjoy classic RPG combat. Couple that with the sort of uninspired stories they push out nowadays and yeah, the bigger JRPG franchises do seem less compelling.
    Umm, Tales has always had an action combat system. Not sure what you have been smoking but the Tales team didn't one day magically wake up and migrate from turn based combat, they never had it.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Forgon View Post

    What do you think?
    I think that JRPGs ruined JRPGs. As with everything else in their culture, the japanese games industry has refused to evolve.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I never understood the JRPG fad.

    I always found them obnoxious and over the top. I think that's what's killing them. They have one or two good things about them, but eventually it becomes just too much crap over and over again.
    Killing them eh? There has been more JRPGs sold this generation then in any other when you combine the 3ds/vita/ps3 sales. They sure are dying...

    Oh wait, it's just FF "dying" as considered by the internet. FF is not the entire genre.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by -Aigis View Post
    It kind of sounds like you are only talking about Final Fantasy games.
    Well that's because everyone copies Final Fantasy.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Alteiry View Post
    I think that JRPGs ruined JRPGs. As with everything else in their culture, the japanese games industry has refused to evolve.
    Yea, cause you know them western games sure have evolved when 9/10 releases are a fps, a third person shooter or a sports game. And the 1/10 is the western rpg.

  17. #37
    There is nothing wrong with JRPGs, the problem is with "action rpg" FF games jumping into front and center, with a bad mixing of gameplay.

    Let the "action rpg" slide back to side games.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Alteiry View Post
    I think that JRPGs ruined JRPGs. As with everything else in their culture, the japanese games industry has refused to evolve.
    Square Enix tried to evolve by making their Final Fantasy games more action oriented. The results? Mediocrity.
    JRPGs as a whole hasn't been ruined at all, just Final Fantasy.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Forgon View Post
    This is the best era of gaming in my mind.

    Final Fantasy 3-12
    Huh, there's a noticable drop in FF's music quality from IX on basically, to the point where Uematsu left the series entirely before XII ever happened. Not sure if we should place that in the same boat with III - VIII...



    Anyway, yes it's a bit sad to see what became of JRPGs, those that make it across the ocean anyway, during the past 10 years. But it's like it always goes, first someone lands an unexpected hit, then people can't get enough, an entire sub-industry develops around that and then we're getting hopelessly oversupplied with ever lower quality products, to the point where people simply stop caring.

    Over-fixation on shiny graphics might play a role but that's not the whole story. More like the sum of every single "improvement" or "optimisation" lead to worst products in the end. Good thing my SNES still does its job.
    Last edited by The Kao; 2014-06-08 at 08:37 PM.
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  20. #40
    Pandaren Monk Lyese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I never understood the JRPG fad.

    I always found them obnoxious and over the top. I think that's what's killing them. They have one or two good things about them, but eventually it becomes just too much crap over and over again.
    Fad? It's been a genre since the original NES days. I do agree with your latter statement.

    This is a long post, so to quote Jurassic Park, "Hold onto your butts."

    For a genre that's built itself on "teens embarking on a quest to save the world," it sure has managed to outdo our collective suspension of disbelief. How? With each iteration, more and more and more things are put on the line. Tales of the Abyss, though my favorite Tales game, had a guy who could pretty much rewrite reality. FF6, my favorite FF game and def second of all time, literally had the world destroyed and you pretty much fought God Himself. Chrono Cross had the multiple universes at stake thing, and not to mention the embodiment of primal forces combining into a deity, which STILL wasn't the final boss. At least Tactics Ogre was more grounded in its plotlines. I can understand evil empires, tyrannical kings, and even aspects (heavy emphasis on aspects) of evil deities (See FFTactics), but when the entire fate of the world/cosmos/multiverse is at stake because someone in the party didn't want to say something to make people not like them (*cough* Vanille), it gets super hamfisted. Lost Odyssey is a good example of a plotline that matches the environment. Some party members are literally immortal, so it fit the scope of the story. When a 12 year old boy rends the earth in twain and has to defeat the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse in order to save his original home planet and the world he mysteriously got thrust in....it's much harder to suspend disbelief.

    I like when Aqua called it "Art direction." The graphics aren't really to blame, but the moe/super deformed art styles are hit or miss for me, personally. I love Castlevania, but I couldn't stand when they had Death Note's artist do the character designs for the series. Tetsuya Nomura's style is all over the place, with good character designs in Parasite Eve to mediocrity in Kingdom Hearts (The protagonist from The World Ends With You really reminds me of Sora). But I can't, for the life of me, get through a Tales game without needing to tune out over half the cast (Abyss is the sole exception to this). We don't need rehashed anime cliches, tired protagonist tropes, or even anything super-revolutionary. We just need something that fits well within the scope of the game's vision. Lost Odyssey is a great example of a non-spiky haired angst filled protagonist, but the story wouldn't have worked as well with one at the helm. Likewise, the start of FF7 was great because a spiky haired angst filled progatonist is exactly what the story needed. An entire city was ruled by one corporation, and they were pretty bad.

    So, to answer your question, no. I don't think graphics ruined JRPGs. Honestly, I think JRPGs are in a decent spot now. I prefer them as a niche rather than an oversaturated market (see PS1 era). I think what's caused JRPGs to spiral down in quality is just cliches and tropes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alteiry View Post
    Well that's because everyone copies Final Fantasy.
    Tales, Tactics Ogre, Lufia, Dragon Quest...all series that don't copy from FF, but FF has definitely borrowed assets from. DQ is honestly the father of JRPGs.
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