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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebria View Post
    from one spec (rogue/agi dagger) to 5+ specs
    "sorry mr. rogue the warlock rolled a higher number"
    Actually it would go from two specs (sub and assa) to fifteen specs.
    - Frost, Arcane and Fire
    - Demonology, Destruction and Affliction
    - Shadow, Discipline and Holy
    - Subtlety and Assasination
    - Balance and Restoration
    - Elemental and Restoration
    And yes, rogues would have competition, but given that daggers can be used by all spell dps and most healers, there'll MUCH more daggers dropping, so in the long run, rogues can expect faster access to daggers, or a lower chance of being unlucky with drops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitheqt View Post
    Imbue switching has been a thing since dual-wield was introduced and that was its intended use, but Flametongue and Frostbrand was always confusing so they'd be questioned but the main thing was Windfury for main-hand, Flametongue for PvE off-hand, Frostbrand for PvP off-hand and Rockbiter for off-hand for the extra survivability. Clunky as it was, it was clear cut and showed its intended use.
    Mmmm not really. DW existed since 2.0, which is to say, tbc. Unleash Elements/Fury did not exist back then, and WF/WF was king. Shocks dealt pathetic damage even compared to enhance now, so just using Frost Shock all the time was no sacrifice and therefor using Frostbrand was a straight up waste, with FT and RB being clearly inferior dps choices.

    The first case of "imbue insecurity" was, I think, end of wotlk, where people ran FB/FT in battlegrounds, for the ignored armor attribute. Windfury didn't do all that much damage back then (probably the reason they added the 3rd extra strike in cata). It wasn't imbue switching though.

    In 4.0, blizz introduced UE and changed RB's effect to a threat/absorb one. This is at best the beginning of imbue switching. HOWEVER, enh would be the one getting the most out of it, in theory, and here we have multiple problems:
    -There's a small lockout time after switching weapons
    -There's a gcd for changing the imbue, used twice for imbue switching, which would add a pointless 3 seconds/15 seconds, so basically 20% of the time, shamans would be gcd locked by imbues, if they wanted to optimize imbues as much as possible imbue/unleash-wise.
    Most people I think decided on an imbue beforehand, and stuck to that. FB became an increasingly punishing choice in comparison to FT, and WF was needed for MSW. RB was not an option, as UF did not exist yet and the imbue being useless.

    The first change that would've made imbue dancing actually worth it considering utility would be the introduction of UF, which did not happen before 5.0 (mop pre patch). So there's been basically 1 x-pack where people could use the rb absorb, or fb sprint. And for a very short time, FB was seen as a viable choice. However, even with the big loss in damage due to not taking FT, people preferred to stick to FB because it was just annoying to juggle for that little extra.

    I guess the theory, the idea has been around. But it hasn't been a thing. People used UF:RB switches sometimes when in need, I guess. But it would've been to situational to call it being a trend, or a thing, or much utilized.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  2. #42
    Don't tell me the weapon visual effects will be taken away...

  3. #43
    Moderator Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eiserne Drossel View Post
    Don't tell me the weapon visual effects will be taken away...
    It's not as if they were really visible when you had enchanted weapons anyway... I hope the proc effects stay though.

  4. #44
    UE and UF should maintain their damage dealing capability. Since blizz plans to remove lightning bolt on-the-move, we can surely use every bit of instant damage output when we actually have to move....

    UE and UF could double the amount of stacks consumed of your lightning shield when you're using earthshock. Instead of 7 charges, your earthshock hits for 14 stacks....

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Blithe View Post
    It's not as if they were really visible when you had enchanted weapons anyway... I hope the proc effects stay though.
    True, but the obvious part are the roleplayers, which no one really cares about. Of course mechanics should come before visuals and shit, but a lot of roleplayers that were Shamans liked to show that they were Shamans and had weapon imbues on their RP weapons.

    Just pointing that out.

  6. #46
    Moderator Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eiserne Drossel View Post
    True, but the obvious part are the roleplayers, which no one really cares about. Of course mechanics should come before visuals and shit, but a lot of roleplayers that were Shamans liked to show that they were Shamans and had weapon imbues on their RP weapons.

    Just pointing that out.
    That's an extremely minute factor (they're not exactly "eye-popping" as far as visuals are concerned), but I respect their opinion.

  7. #47
    Visually I always liked the little trail the imbues left at you attacked things--it was neat and added flavor. Was sad when the enchant graphics superseded them. But I came to terms with that years ago.

  8. #48
    Pandaren Monk GreenFuse's Avatar
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    I'm OCD with Enhance's imbues. It's like, "Did I leave the iron on?" but with imbues and whether or not they're on the correct weapon.

    This change makes me happy and less scratchy.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    The first case of "imbue insecurity" was, I think, end of wotlk, where people ran FB/FT in battlegrounds, for the ignored armor attribute. Windfury didn't do all that much damage back then (probably the reason they added the 3rd extra strike in cata). It wasn't imbue switching though.
    First imbue insecurity was actually start of wotlk with caster MH and double FT being viable. Also, if I remember corretly, during that period dagger OH was also viable for faster spelldamage FT procs.
    Healing with different classes since Vanilla
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Blindlad View Post
    First imbue insecurity was actually start of wotlk with caster MH and double FT being viable. Also, if I remember corretly, during that period dagger OH was also viable for faster spelldamage FT procs.
    Yes, you're correct. I thought only from pvp POV, and forget the very brief moment we didn't run wf, wf/wf, or wf/ft in pve. Was less an imnue thing though, or imbue insecurity thing (at least that's how I remember it, I must admit my memory on this is a little foggy in terms of the reasons/origins). I think it was more about ft benefitting more from faster weapons, and partly because of VERY limited gear choices (enh had only one slow agi offhand (the mace), and only two main hand options (the other one being kel'thuzad fist) in 25man).
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  11. #51
    I recall FT damage wasn't normalized, but just a number that scaled with your stats, but not weapon speed. So that FT attack did the same 1000 damage (just an example number) per swing on a 1,5s weapon and a 2,6s weapon, thus obviously a faster weapon would gain more of those hits. At the same time the caster stats found on that caster fist and the caster daggers to a point were strong enough that it was a small'ish DPS gain to still use it, at least if you didn't have anything stronger available.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Blithe View Post
    When are they going to remove Unleash Elements? Or at least give us comparable affects to that new 'Seal' talent that Paladins are getting? Unleashed Fury in its current "Warlords" state feels quite lackluster if you ask me considering we lost two imbues, and the rest are spec-specific, it doesn't really make sense having an "imbue switch" game-play anymore.
    They said Unleash Elements was getting split between the Specs. Unleash Life for Resto, Unleash Flame for Ele, and Unleash Elements for Enhance. Then Unleashed Fury would affect those abilities from there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chubathingy View Post
    But anyway it's OK to be jelly of the tallest midget.

  13. #53
    I hope Unleash Elements stays, well, at least for enhancement. It's somewhy one of my most loved abilities. I don't really care for it as resto though and I never play ele, might be same for ele, but at least for enha I hope it stays mostly in it's current form.

  14. #54
    Has blizzard state at what level enhance is going to get 'enhance weapons?' Having windfury at level 10 is going to be fun.

  15. #55
    Moderator Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamantime View Post
    They said Unleash Elements was getting split between the Specs. Unleash Life for Resto, Unleash Flame for Ele, and Unleash Elements for Enhance. Then Unleashed Fury would affect those abilities from there.
    I know. It still doesn't change how lackluster they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coreldan View Post
    I hope Unleash Elements stays, well, at least for enhancement. It's somewhy one of my most loved abilities. I don't really care for it as resto though and I never play ele, might be same for ele, but at least for enha I hope it stays mostly in it's current form.
    Unleash Elements for one, should be off the global cooldown. Since it has lots its damage component, I don't see why this isn't the case as it's already barely used unless you talent Unleashed Fury.

    Either way, since most of the imbues were removed, baked in or are now passive, I don't think it's still deserving to stay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by withoutaname View Post
    Has blizzard state at what level enhance is going to get 'enhance weapons?' Having windfury at level 10 is going to be fun.
    It should be whenever you get Flametongue currently.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Blithe View Post
    I know. It still doesn't change how lackluster they are.

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    Unleash Elements for one, should be off the global cooldown. Since it has lots its damage component, I don't see why this isn't the case as it's already barely used unless you talent Unleashed Fury.

    Either way, since most of the imbues were removed, baked in or are now passive, I don't think it's still deserving to stay.

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    It should be whenever you get Flametongue currently.
    I think they're just keeping it a GCD so you can't macro it into to every skill on your bar, and since Enhance is so used to using it rotationally anyways, it's not like much will change. I guess we'll just have to see it as a glorified buff, and with the flurry and haste changes, Unleash Wind might be more valuable.
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  17. #57
    Moderator Blithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTCrystallite View Post
    I think they're just keeping it a GCD so you can't macro it into to every skill on your bar, and since Enhance is so used to using it rotationally anyways, it's not like much will change. I guess we'll just have to see it as a glorified buff, and with the flurry and haste changes, Unleash Wind might be more valuable.
    It was more so a change for Elemental and somewhat Restoration. Yes it's rotational for Enhancement, but for those two it's a little lackluster. Since it's a buff that's placed on your target (and not yourself), and there's no damage, I think that removing its GCD is quite justified.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Blithe View Post
    It was more so a change for Elemental and somewhat Restoration. Yes it's rotational for Enhancement, but for those two it's a little lackluster. Since it's a buff that's placed on your target (and not yourself), and there's no damage, I think that removing its GCD is quite justified.
    It's a bad button to press regardless then, they just need to massively rework it, or maybe even design it drastically different for each spec rather than just being "15 sec cd buff button".
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