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  1. #1

    Hunter F.A.Q Answers by Azortharion <Echoes>

    GEAR CHOICES: AGILITY > ALL

    I get a lot of the same questions in my PM inbox, in-game, in threads here or on SentryTotem. I have put a lot of these things on my Facebook but I figured MMO-Champion is a place that way more people (155 times as many) will be reading and stuff.

    Changelog/additions:


    26-08-2014: Updated the "Log Review" Q, you can now simply PM me for that kinda stuff as I do not do SentryTotem anymore.
    18-07-2014: Updated Focus Fire WeakAura to make the FF bind button glow when it is about to expire, to make people with shiny button syndrome use it.
    15-07-2014: Added the CPM pin.
    12-07-2014: Changed both talent setups per spec to recommend Barrage for Norushen.
    10-07-2014: Edited the note of opener range/time when precasting Glaive Toss in both opener sections, because apparently this ninjapulls shit on some bosses????? 5% of the time??? FU Draco.
    07-07-2014: Added TL;DR for all gear choices ever above this. Added "when to use Rabid". Updated the openers a little bit (made prepotting timing clearer). Added most important buffs/debuffs for BM/SV.
    Added priority for Valor upgrades.
    30-06-2014: Added IRC chat that every hunter in the world should join.
    25-06-2014: Added semi-detailed explanation of how to use Focus Fire optimally and why. Also added another question up top. Also added another-another question up top. Updated a few things: AskMrRobot stat weights, BM opener, professions. Updated the Focus Fire WeakAuras slightly.
    23-06-2014: Updated the Focus Fire WeakAuras again. Updated the MM stat weights.
    21-06-2014: Added AoE/Cleave guide for BM. Added AoE/Cleave guide for SV.
    19-06-2014: Updated the AskMrRobot weights for both specs. Cut down the Haste Breakpoint section to simply suggest that you should stack haste regardless of any breakpoints, professions, or race. Updated the Focus Fire WeakAura.
    17-06-2014: Added note on Survival talent suggestions about Fervor being viable for some bosses.
    16-06-2014: Added some WeakAuras that people ask me about.
    15-06-2014: Redid the Haste breakpoint explanation thing for Beast Mastery. Added non-troll Herb breakpoint.
    14-06-2014: Update to best proffs. Herb > Tailor for BM.
    Updated Survival opener a little bit (changed order of some abilities) and added a Survival opener for people using Fervor.
    13-06-2014: Added best professions and what that addon in my UI is.
    12-06-2014: Added best off-pieces, I know they're in the BiS lists as well but screw everyone.
    08-06-2014: I made dis.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Q: WarcraftLogs copy-paste to check proper global count/casts per minute?

    Code:
    &pins=2%24Off%24%23244F4B%24casts%240%240.0.0.Hunter%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24true%243044%7C77767%7C122802%7C82692%7C117050%7C34026%7C53351%7C121818%7C1978%7C2643%7C53301%7C131894%7C3674
    Go to any WCL report, paste this in the end of the URL and go to "Casts".

    --

    Q: What's the priority on Valor upgrades per slot?

    A slash means you should pick the one with the best stats/higher iLvl. In 99% of cases, Agility > all.

    Weapon > Trinkets > Chest > Legs > Helm > Cloak (legendary) > Boots > Belt > Gloves/Shoulders > Neck/Bracer > Rings

    --

    Q: Most important buffs/debuffs for BM/SV?

    BM: Attack Speed > Mastery >= Crit > Weakened Armor > Physical Vulnerability > Magical Vulnerability
    SV: Crit >= Magic Vulnerability > Attack Speed > Mastery > Weakened Armor > Physical Vulnerability

    --

    Q: When to use Rabid?

    Rabid should be used on autocast/on cooldown.

    There are other methods of dealing with Rabid, but taking the most potent of these (Rabid + Dextrous) and giving this scenario a perfect fight length and everything, lining Rabid up with Dextrous (so delaying it) on a ~3 minute fight is a 1.5k dps increase. If the fight extends beyond 3 minutes, you just lost a Rabid, however.

    The conclusion is thus that there is no reason to not use Rabid on anything but autocast/on cooldown unless you can somehow predict exactly how fast the boss fight is going to last. And you can't.

    Even if you could hypothetically get it right, it's arguably not worth the effort. WeakAuras could simplify it, but put in technical terms, "merrrh".

    --

    Q: Azor Hunter Macros?

    http://pastebin.com/FfLMsX2B

    --

    Q: Hunter IRC chat details?

    https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.quake.../#beastcleaves

    OR

    http://webchat.quakenet.org/ - enter username and #beastcleaves for channel.

    OR

    #beastcleaves @ irc.quakenet.org:6667

    --

    Q: Can you evaluate my logs, Azor?

    If you want help with your hunter logs and the "Fix my DPS" thread on these forums is not sufficient, you can simply PM me here on MMO-C for some (fairly basic) log review. More of a question-answering thing really as I do not devote much time to the game in this content drought.

    PLEASE HAVE:

    1) WarcraftLogs - pls no WorldofLogs.
    2) Malkorok/Iron Juggernaut fights within. LFR/Flex is fine.

    Pure single-target logs is important and it is all that we can reasonably evaluate really well because all other fights rely on so many other factors.

    --

    Q: Should I pick X iLvl TED/Haromm's over Y iLvl Haromm's/TED? (BM)
    http://i.imgur.com/2eGDU3C.png - all the trinkets ranked up, fully upgraded (LFRTED/Haromms are 544 iLvl for example). If TED/Haromm's are within 500 DPS of each other, go with TED (500 dps is margin of error, Haromm's is more RNG dependent so if they sim the same, TED is more desirable).

    --

    Q: Why is that other hunter's pet doing way more auto attacks/auto attack damage than mine?

    You're not using Stampede glyph, he is, meaning his Stampede pet damage + attacks gets rolled into that main pet.

    --

    Q: When do I use Focus Fire?

    TL;DR Use the WeakAura in the bottom of this post and it'll tell you when to use it.

    Focus Fire should be used outside of TED/BW when:

    BW is 10+ secs of coming off CD.
    Nothing else with higher priority is off cooldown (anything except Arcane Shot/Cobra Shot)

    Are both true.

    Focus Fire should be used inside of BW when:

    You are under 20 focus.
    BW is 3+ secs off expiring.
    Nothing else with higher priority is off cooldown.

    Are all true.

    Focus Fire should be used inside of TED when:

    You are under 25 focus.
    BW is 10+ secs of coming off cooldown.
    Nothing else with higher priority is off cooldown.

    Are all true.

    (But why?!)

    The reason you do not want to use Focus Fire when BW is about to come off cooldown is that your pet will benefit more from the attack speed than you will from the Haste. Because of how BW works, you will be spamming Arcanes mostly anyway, which negates Haste's value of giving you more focus/lower Cobra Shot cast time to play around with for more focus dumps.

    Focus Fire should be used inside Bestial Wrath under certain conditions, namely when Cobra Shot is the only other option. The reason for this is that Focus Fire will do more damage for you in this window by giving your pet a surge of focus that it can use to perform a "WH-Basic", which is a Basic Attack that does 100%+ more damage because of how Bite/Claw/Smack works (if used at 50+ pet focus, do double dmg) - doubling the damage of a pet's Basic Attack is more damage gained than a Cobra Shot, and then there's the bit of Haste that you get, auto-shots etc, but that's not as big of a deal. The reason that the 3+ BW duration requirement is set, is because you want to absolutely guarantee that WH-Basic happening, and with its cooldown being 3 seconds, if you use Focus Fire to get it at 2 seconds, and its 3 seconds left on the Basic Attack cooldown, you do not get the 20%+ pet damage bonus on that WH-Basic, and you would probably have been better off using a 20%+ damage Cobra Shot instead. The same logic applies to the TED example, except here there is no 3+ duration requirement because of its deprecating-agility nature.

    --

    Q: What do I do when I got X amount of targets to cleave? (BM)


    All of this assumes you still use Glaive Toss/Barrage/etc on cooldown which you should.

    2 targets:
    Keep Beast Cleave up, Kill Command is still higher priority, Arcane Shot is > Multi-Shot when you got the focus to spend.
    3 targets:
    Keep Beast Cleave up, Kill Command is still higher priority, Arcane Shot is > Multi-Shot when you got the focus to spend.
    4 targets: Keep Beast Cleave up, maintaining it is higher priority than Kill Command, Multi Shot now does more damage than Arcane, but at a higher cost, use Multi over Arcane if you got the focus to spend. 100% uptime on Beast Cleave is more important than Kill Command.
    5 targets: Keep Beast Cleave up, focus dump as needed with Multi-Shot, Beast Cleave is way higher priority than Kill Command - delay KC in order to Multi-Shot if Beast Cleave is about to fall off.

    You want to continue using Kill Command on cooldown up till 8 targets (but prioritizing Beast Cleave where noted).

    Spam Cobra + Multi-Shot at 9+ targets.

    Don't bother with Explosive Trap unless you can precast it.

    SV:

    2 targets: Focus-dump with Multi-Shot over Arcane Shot, unless dumping with Arcane means another Arcane over a Cobra Shot, lay Explosive Trap if you can get half duration or more.
    3 targets:
    Focus dump with Multi-Shot over Arcane Shot. Use Explosive Trap on cooldown.
    4 targets:
    Focus-dump with Multi-Shot, only use Explosive Shot without LnL proc if ToTH is not up, otherwise do spend LnL-explosives.
    5 targets:
    Spam Multi-Shot, use Explosive Shot only if Cobra Shot is the only alternative.
    6 targets:
    Spam Multi-Shot and Cobra Shot.

    --


    Q: What are the best professions for DPS/raiding?

    BM: Engineering and Herbalism(if Troll) or
    Alchemy/Blacksmithing/Enchanting/Inscription/Jewelcrafting/Leatherworking/Tailoring.
    SV:
    Engineering and Alchemy/Blacksmithing/Enchanting/Inscription/Jewelcrafting/Leatherworking.

    --

    Q: Stat Priorities?

    BM (no meta gem):
    Crit > Haste > Mastery (at this point you should prolly be Surv anyway)
    BM (meta gem): Haste > Mastery > Crit
    SV: Crit > Haste > Mastery
    MM: Crit = Haste > Mastery

    Simmed, crunched, simmed again and logic'd out for simplicity by myself.

    --

    Q: SV BiS List?


    Helm: Tier
    Neck: Gleaming Eye of the Devilsaur (Thok)
    Shoulders: Tier
    Cloak: Legendary
    Chest: Tier
    Bracers: Wristguards of Ruination (Malkorok)
    Gloves: Tier
    Belt: Arrowflight Girdle (Spoils)
    Legs: Leggings of Unabashed Anger (Norushen)
    Boots: Ravager's Pathwalkers (Nazgrim)
    Ring1: Reality Ripper Ring (Norushen)
    Ring2: Ring of Restless Energy (Malkorok)
    Trink1: Haromm's Talisman (Kor'kron Dark Shaman)
    Trink2: Assurance of Consequence (Sha of Pride)
    Weapon: Hisek's Reserve Longbow (Paragons)

    --

    Q: BM BiS list?


    Helm: Tier
    Neck: Immerseus' Crystalline Eye (Immerseus)
    Shoulders: Tier
    Cloak: Legendary

    Chest: Chestguard of Relentless Tyranny (Garrosh)
    Bracers: Bracers of Infinite Pipes (Siegecrafter)
    Gloves: Tier
    Belt: Arrowflight Girdle (Spoils)
    Legs: Tier
    Boots: Ravager's Pathwalkers (Nazgrim)
    Ring1: Kil'ruk's Band of Ascendancy (Paragons)
    Ring2: Swift Serpent Signet (Galakras)
    Trink1: Ticking Ebon Detonator (Siegecrafter)
    Trink2: Assurance of Consequence (Sha of Pride)
    Weapon: Kor'kron Hand Cannon (Malkorok) or any other weapon, really.

    --

    Q: What talent setup for X boss? (BM)

    Immerseus: Thrill + Barrage, at least 50% of damage here is pure AoE.
    Protectors: Thrill + Barrage
    Norushen: Dire Beast + Barrage
    Sha of Pride: Dire Beast + Glaive Toss
    Galakras: Thrill + Barrage
    Iron Juggernaut: Dire Beast + Glaive Toss
    Dark Shaman: Thrill + Barrage
    Nazgrim (with opener adds, burning through defensive and cleaving adds): Thrill + Barrage
    Nazgrim (without opener adds, holding back on defensive and not cleaving adds): Dire Beast + Glaive Toss
    Malkorok: Dire Beast + Glaive Toss
    Spoils of Pandaria: Thrill + Barrage
    Thok the Bloodthirsty: Dire Beast + Glaive Toss (unless very long kite phases of 13+ stacks, then Thrill)
    Blackfuse (belt/not belt): Dire Beast + Glaive Toss + Spirit Bond if belt
    Paragons of the Klaxxi: Dire Beast + Glaive Toss
    Garrosh: Dire Beast + Glaive Toss

    SV?:

    Immerseus:
    Thrill + Barrage, at least 50% of damage here is pure AoE.
    Protectors: Thrill + Barrage
    Norushen*: Thrill + Barrage
    Sha of Pride*: Thrill + Glaive Toss
    Galakras: Thrill + Barrage + Blink Strikes
    Iron Juggernaut*: Thrill + Glaive Toss
    Dark Shaman: Thrill + Barrage
    Nazgrim (with opener adds, burning through defensive and cleaving adds): Thrill + Barrage
    Nazgrim (without opener adds, holding back on defensive and not cleaving adds): Thrill + Glaive Toss
    Malkorok*: Thrill + Glaive Toss
    Spoils of Pandaria: Thrill + Barrage + Blink Strikes
    Thok the Bloodthirsty: Thrill + Glaive Toss
    Blackfuse (belt/not belt)*: Thrill/Fervor + Glaive Toss + Spirit Bond if belt
    Paragons of the Klaxxi: Thrill + Glaive Toss
    Garrosh: Thrill + Glaive Toss

    *Fervor is a viable alternative for bosses with a star by them.

    --

    Q: What are your stat weights for AskMrRobot/ReforgeLite/similar?

    BM:

    MH DPS: 0.51
    Agi: 1
    Exp/Hit: 1
    Haste: 0.47
    Mastery: 0.45
    Crit: 0.41
    AP: 0.34

    SV:

    MH DPS: 0.48
    Agi: 1
    Exp/Hit: 1
    Crit: 0.43
    Haste: 0.34
    Mastery: 0.30
    AP: 0.38

    Quadruple-check all the values (and check the corresponding stats), a lot of people enter "0.45" in Crit and "0.41" in Mastery for the BM setup because that's how they are ordered by default in AMR.

    All stat-weights calculated with a mix of SimCrafting across various fight lengths, target counts and common sense.

    --

    Q: How do I open as Beast Mastery?

    Precast Glaive Toss
    Pre-pot halfway into the GCD
    Serpent Sting
    Stampede + All cooldowns (macro it all together)
    Kill Command
    Dire Beast
    Proceed

    --

    Q: How do I open as Survival?

    ToTH:

    Precast Glaive Toss
    Pre-pot halfway into the GCD
    Explosive Shot
    Stampede + All cooldowns
    (macro it all together)
    Black Arrow
    Cobra Shot
    A Murder of Crows
    Serpent Sting
    Proceed

    Fervor:

    Precast Glaive Toss (at approx 1.5s at 20-25yd range)
    Pre-pot
    Explosive Shot
    Stampede + All cooldowns

    A Murder of Crows
    Fervor
    Black Arrow
    Serpent Sting
    Proceed

    --

    Q: What's with those haste breakpoints/softcaps/caps for Beast Mastery? What are they?


    There are theoretical haste "breakpoints" at which Stampede pets will get an extra attack for Beast Mastery, you should just continue stacking Haste with no regard for the haste breakpoints. They are merely points of interest, and not plateaus, as Effinhunter nicely put it.


    --

    Q: What are the best off-pieces to get?

    SV: Leggings of Unabashed Anger (Norushen)
    BM: Chestguard of Relentless Tyranny (Garrosh)

    --

    Q: Useful WeakAuras

    Focus Fire (simply tells you to use Focus Fire based on the criteria in the mini-guide above, I use it!):

    Code:
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    Pet Not Attacking:
    Code:
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    Last edited by Azortharion; 2014-08-26 at 01:12 PM.

    Azortharion#2528 - Skype: azortharion - Stream - Hunter F.A.Q - YT - Hunter IRC - Twitter

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Really good idea for a thread, might just remove the amount of threads regarding the same stuffs and promotes discussions that stays in one thread.
    Last edited by Joyful; 2014-06-08 at 04:57 PM.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Dhryke's Avatar
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    I realize the difference is so small it really shouldn't matter, but my sims have the Immerseus neck above the Thok neck for BM BiS. Also, 5pc tier...did I miss something?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhryke View Post
    I realize the difference is so small it really shouldn't matter, but my sims have the Immerseus neck above the Thok neck for BM BiS. Also, 5pc tier...did I miss something?
    My mistake, typo, fixed..

    Azortharion#2528 - Skype: azortharion - Stream - Hunter F.A.Q - YT - Hunter IRC - Twitter

  5. #5
    hmm, towards aoe fights: any reason why thrill is superior to fervor? I would have thought the extra wild hunt uptime assuming you can maintain beast cleave would be better.

    also for openers you should pot while glaives are in the air, that extra 0.5 seconds count yo!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    hmm, towards aoe fights: any reason why thrill is superior to fervor? I would have thought the extra wild hunt uptime assuming you can maintain beast cleave would be better.

    also for openers you should pot while glaives are in the air, that extra 0.5 seconds count yo!
    Fervor is no more of an increase to pet DPS on AoE/Beast Cleave stuff than it is for a single target - your Beast Cleave uptime is only dictated by your Multi-Shot usage which will be significantly lowered by choosing Fervor over Thrill.

    Fervor's value lies in significantly increasing Wild Hunt uptime, yes, but Basic Attacks are not stronger for AOE than single-target, and Beast Cleave uptime > Wild Hunt uptime anyways.

    Fervor would be nice for a big, juicy high-TED stack opener wild-hunt basic for big Protectors burst but that's about it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    also for openers you should pot while glaives are in the air, that extra 0.5 seconds count yo!
    I considered that for a little bit, I don't do this, it's probably better, but the chance of you fucking it up is also a lot higher so for a "general recommendation" I picked the simpler/easier-to-execute option.

    Azortharion#2528 - Skype: azortharion - Stream - Hunter F.A.Q - YT - Hunter IRC - Twitter

  7. #7
    You have Immerseus neck listed as (Thok) Azor.

  8. #8
    Geez I'm off to a good start.

    Azortharion#2528 - Skype: azortharion - Stream - Hunter F.A.Q - YT - Hunter IRC - Twitter

  9. #9
    It's a good thread broski. Helps out alot of the guys making new threads daily about stats and BiS lists.

  10. #10
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Nice one, helpful thread.

  11. #11
    Why do your openers prepot before Glaive toss when Glaive toss doesn't initiate combat until it lands? Also when do you take AMoC over Blink strikes for BM?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Why do your openers prepot before Glaive toss when Glaive toss doesn't initiate combat until it lands? Also when do you take AMoC over Blink strikes for BM?
    Explained above.

    And never, you'd need a pretty specific fight length for AMOC to beat Blink Strikes, and even then the difference is hardly worth the effort.

    I think AMOC was like 1% ahead of Blink Strikes on a perfectly timed fight for AMOC (4:30) last time I checked (2 weeks ago or so.)

    EDIT: Scratch that. 0.3% ;P http://i.imgur.com/t6BWwga.png

    This is with more Mastery-heavy gear/setup than most, too, and Mastery is > all for AMOC. http://i.imgur.com/DIZzX1S.png
    Last edited by Azortharion; 2014-06-08 at 06:25 PM.

    Azortharion#2528 - Skype: azortharion - Stream - Hunter F.A.Q - YT - Hunter IRC - Twitter

  13. #13
    I'm gonna join in the berating.

    Any reason why you would want BS over AMOC as SV on Protectors?

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Dhryke's Avatar
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    Did Draco officially pass the torch to Azor? How did I miss the ceremony?

    #leftout

  15. #15
    I appreciate it.

    There are a number of things that speak for BS over AMOC on that fight, but this is not really meant to be a discussion thread so I've just changed the recommendation in the OP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhryke View Post
    Did Draco officially pass the torch to Azor? How did I miss the ceremony?

    #leftout
    He's busy 1v1'ing everyone's beloved Business <Prime> here http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10887508689?page=1

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  16. #16
    Mechagnome Dhryke's Avatar
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    Thank you Azor <3

  17. #17
    Awesome. its nice to have all of that in one place.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    Fervor is no more of an increase to pet DPS on AoE/Beast Cleave stuff than it is for a single target - your Beast Cleave uptime is only dictated by your Multi-Shot usage which will be significantly lowered by choosing Fervor over Thrill.

    Fervor's value lies in significantly increasing Wild Hunt uptime, yes, but Basic Attacks are not stronger for AOE than single-target, and Beast Cleave uptime > Wild Hunt uptime anyways.

    Fervor would be nice for a big, juicy high-TED stack opener wild-hunt basic for big Protectors burst but that's about it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I considered that for a little bit, I don't do this, it's probably better, but the chance of you fucking it up is also a lot higher so for a "general recommendation" I picked the simpler/easier-to-execute option.
    don't basic attacks get affected by beast cleave?

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral Kissthebaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illana View Post
    don't basic attacks get affected by beast cleave?
    yes, but it doesnt out weigh thrill's value, id say fervor isnt bad but its not as good as thrill for sure (for bm)
    Last edited by Kissthebaby; 2014-06-08 at 07:44 PM.

    kissthebaby#1726

  20. #20
    Basic Attacks are affected, it just doesn't change your decision with regards to cleave/AoE talent choices, especially for the applicable fights this tier where the AoE situation constantly changes (Protectors).

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