Supports that can transition into a late game damage dealer.

[Ragu4]

So i'll admit I suck at this game. I'm at ~2.8k mmr, and haven't moved from that point in about 7 months. However, at a bare minimum I do OK when I support, seeing as it's my best role. My favorite is Lich, with Vengeful Spirit, SS and Lion following. I can't carry for shit, whether it's my fuck-ups or I get a 5 carry team. My problem is that I can get my carry fed easy, but they don't seem to know once they get to that snowball level. So my question is what is a good support that can transition into a semi-carry as the game progresses. You can look at my games and make fun of me if you want, I need the criticism bad, cause I'm kinda getting tired of getting tired of where I am.

http://dotabuff.com/players/39200614

[Deleted]

Alirght, I'm feeling generous today. I watched your last Rhasta game. You need to work on a lot but these are some general things I just noticed with a quick watch:

-First off, what is your role here? What do you consider yourself in this game? Because if you think you are a support you're dead wrong. You didn't buy wards, no dust, no sentries. You tried to go for big items and ignored supporting and it wasn't even good big items but useless ones like Bloodstone.

-You don't take last hits even when your carry can't get them. Like at the start while the Tiny was very low he wasn't last hitting because he was regenerating from the salve. That's when you take last hits because he can't.

-Carry TPs. You don't carry TPs early game, it could have gotten you some kills.

-Your spell usage is very bad. You never once used your wards to take down towers. That's their main purpose. Not to kill but to defend and push towers. At 9 minutse is a perfect example. You could have easily gotten that tower but you just backed without using your wards.

-You run like a headless chicken into fights. You need to stay back, assess the situation, cast your spells from maximum distance and not hug the opponent and eat all the AoE damage and die. Stay back when you're a squishy support hero.

-Time efficiency. You run around the map a lot. That's fine if you're a support and need to join fights etc. But you should have pushed out lanes more, taken towers. Use TP if your team needs you.

-Item builds. What was the purpose of the Bloodstone? That is what you should be asking yourself. Aghanims or Blink Dagger or Force Staff would have been so much better that game. Casual Perseverance is so bad. It's 1800 spent on nothing. You could have had a Blink instead and engaged fights faster or pushed without being in danger.

[minteK917]

Pure support that can transition into pure damage dealers arent really many, thats more like semi carries. Most support that will be useful into transition simply have utility or damage to do so, but they never really become damage dealers. As you mentioned SS, is a decent exemple, theres really no section of the game were you can point to him being useless. His ult is good at assaulting building, trapping heroes, hes got reliable CC. Hes just really not gona be winning teamfights with damage past the 40 minute marks like he could in the first 20.

I guess windrunner can do it ok..... shes kinda a poor in between until she gets all the item she needs.

Enchantress damage is still capable late game.

Silencer is probably the most realistic to push toward a damage dealer late game, if the match is long enough and he was able to get some good items like a scythe and a force staff, he should have enough int stolen to pump some damn good auto attack damage eventually.

[Deleted]

I want to say one more thing. You didn't lose because your hero was useless late game. You lost because you didn't know what to do.

[Ragu4]

Hmm, alright.

You know, I'm seriously debating whether I should just give up on mobas. Recently quit LoL after 5 years due to stress, and I really don't think I wanna spend the massive amount of time to optimize myself in this game. I just don't think I care enough now honestly after reading that post, EXTREMELY discouraging. I'm still getting over my sisters death, parents divorce, college, depression, and massive debt to my fucking parents, and it's NOT for college, that's all on me. Should I even try to relearn another moba, just to get stuck into it for another 5 years?

I just want a MOBA that's brain dead with no Ranked option at all.

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Man, your more aggressive then what I was looking for.

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I want to say one more thing. You didn't lose because your hero was useless late game. You lost because you didn't know what to do.

Ugh, you can stop now, your making it worse. Please, stop.

[Deleted]

Hmm, alright.

You know, I'm seriously debating whether I should just give up on mobas. Recently quit LoL after 5 years due to stress, and I really don't think I wanna spend the massive amount of time to optimize myself in this game. I just don't think I care enough now honestly after reading that post, EXTREMELY discouraging. I'm still getting over my sisters death, parents divorce, college, depression, and massive debt to my fucking parents, and it's NOT for college, that's all on me. Should I even try to relearn another moba, just to get stuck into it for another 5 years?

I just want a MOBA that's brain dead with no Ranked option at all.

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Man, your more aggressive then what I was looking for.

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Ugh, you can stop now, your making it worse. Please, stop.

You asked for help on how to improve. I'm not here to tell you how well you did on some things. I'm here to tell you what you did wrong so you can learn. I'm not saying you were the worst in that game or you lost because of you only. Everyone in that game was about same level I'd say. I'm just saying there is a lot to improve on from my perspective. But remember that I'm quite high rated so anyone below 5k MMR I can notice tons of mistakes from.

Best way to improve in my opinion is playing with a friend who is much better than you. My friends who play Dota always said they learned a ton when they played with me because I usually give them tips on what to do in the game and explain my reasoning for it. One guy went from 4.8k to 5.5k Another from 4.4 to 4.9k. You'll learn a ton if you play with someone like that.

[Ragu4]

You asked for help on how to improve. I'm not here to tell you well you did on some things. I'm here to tell you what you did wrong so you can learn. I'm not saying you were the worst in that game or you lost because of you only. Everyone in that game was about same level I'd say. I'm just saying there is a lot to improve on from my perspective. But remember that I'm quite high rated so anyone below 5k MMR I can notice tons of mistakes from.

That's fine, but that was still somewhat harsh wording. Also, the second post was really unnecessary. Just next time, try to word it a tad softer, there's a fine line between constructive criticism and attacking someone. Whenever you constantly say "you", readers can view it as an attack on them as opposed to advice.

Now, don't get me wrong, there's a time and place for your kind of wording, but for a video game? I dunno. Man, all these Tech Comm courses are changing my view on writing. Still suck at it, but it's opened my eyes on stuff like this.

[Deleted]

That's fine, but that was still somewhat harsh wording. Also, the second post was really unnecessary. Just next time, try to word it a tad softer, there's a fine line between constructive criticism and attacking someone. Whenever you constantly say "you", readers can view it as an attack on them as opposed to advice.

Now, don't get me wrong, there's a time and place for your kind of wording, but for a video game? I dunno. Man, all these Tech Comm courses are changing my view on writing. Still suck at it, but it's opened my eyes on stuff like this.

This is what you said:

You can look at my games and make fun of me if you want, I need the criticism bad, cause I'm kinda getting tired of getting tired of where I am.

I thought you were ready for some harsh criticism that will help you after reading that line. All my advice were constructive and will help you improve if you take them in. My way of wording is harsh but I don't see it as a personal attack. Why would I want to attack you? It's to help you improve. If you don't want my help then I'll stop but my tips are probably some of the best tips you'll get from anyone on these forums.

[potis]

Ignoring the parts about what you did wrong and the above guy pointed it out etc.

When i dont trust the carries..I usually pick Silencer or Mirana..Both for their early nuke/gank potential and their ulties that save the overextending tards >_>

They can turn into carries also so it works for me.

[Ragu4]

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This is what you said:


I thought you were ready for some harsh criticism that will help you after reading that line. All my advice were constructive and will help you improve if you take them in. My way of wording is harsh but I don't see it as a personal attack. Why would I want to attack you? It's to help you improve. If you don't want my help then I'll stop but my tips are probably some of the best tips you'll get from anyone on these forums.

Yep, I fucked up there. But still thanks for the advice. I'm a lost cause. I just don't care enough right now in my life to improve in a game like this. Wasted 5 years in LoL staying in silver without getting better, what makes me think it's going to work here. Seriously, go help other people. It was good advice.

[Jester Joe]

Like said, besides the actual advice for who you were playing, try Silencer, he's one of the best for this time of thing as far as I know.
Maybe Bane just for his ridiculous CC (As long as your team mates don't smack them) and his ult.

Should I even try to relearn another moba, just to get stuck into it for another 5 years?

I just want a MOBA that's brain dead with no Ranked option at all.

A bit off topic, but maybe you should wait for Heroes of the Storm. It's a LOT less stressful than most Mobas, and it's actually pretty decent for an alpha so far.

[Maruka]

I think abaddon is one of the best early supports that can transition to a late game beast if you need to. That being said if you are playing support properly its almost impossible to go from full single support to hard carry and be carrying harder than the other team (unless they are complete newbs).

[Clrg]

Stop playing ranked games, nobody is forcing you to play ranked.

[noteworthynerd]

Wasted 5 years in LoL staying in silver without getting better, what makes me think it's going to work here.

Five years with no improvement makes me wonder if you're even taking in any criticism that you receive?

Like Ariadne said, one of the best ways to improve is to play with people who are much better than you and don't mind telling you what you need to do to improve.

Another (less effective) method I've found is to watch a lot of pro players. I personally have learned a lot from watching players like Arteezy and SingSing, even when they've made no real effort to teach anything. You just sort of "pick up" some of their habits.

[Rucati]

DotA isn't LoL, support will never be large damage dealers the way they are in LoL. You can take Morgana or Annie and build pure damage with a Sightstone and do your job as a support and also drop tons of damage in a fight because the spells scale off items, that isn't the case in DotA, so you'll never find a support that can just one shot somebody late game the way Annie can.

As for other MobAs that don't really require as much thought... Smite has an arena mode that's a lot of fun, so that's worth checking out probably. Awesomenauts is also pretty cool, though I haven't played it in a few months so I don't know how much has changed lately.

[Keldarin]

The best way to improve is to always think about what you could/should have done to improve the situation. It's hard to get there. if you aren't used to thinking that way, but it comes with practice.

If someone gets picked off the jungle, how could I have avoided that, where would be the best place for a ward, so the jungler could've seen them. Was the enemy hero reported missing, was he from my lane?
Which hero would be best to disable in that teamfight? Who did the most damage or who controlled the pace of that fight, how can I stop them?
etc.

[Charge me Doctor]

If you want to "transition" into a late game carry you need someone to take your support duty of buying wards, dust, smoke, gems. You can deal a lot of damage by playing Shaker, Tide, Lina, Lich etc by getting early levels and having advantage of having high ranked nuke spells. But that will work only up to the point when enemy will have pipe, levels and/or leveled stats

[Grable]

No offense but it sounds like you should drop games for a bit if you're getting so upset over it and maybe get your life together first?

[Bookofblade]

Just play for fun, It sounds to me like you could use a good stress relief so instead of making the game some big thing just play it to blow off some steam. Odds are you wont be going pro so just let it slide and do any random crazy thing that allows you to have fun. I've played a ton of dota and couldnt begin to tell you at what level because I have never played a ranked game.

Personally my favorite mode is all random, now sometimes teams can be totally one sided and you just get curb stomped but just blame it on bad luck and play again gives ya a nice lil scapegoat to be upset at rather than yourself and for the games where the teams aren't broken you can get some really odd combos and see teams that would never be picked done in some rather cool ways

just my 2c

[TrollShaman]

My favorite one: Enchantress

buy wards/dust/courier and gank with jungle creeps early-mid game, build between aghanim/orchid/hex and snatch kills mid-late game.