Acess to health care - right or privilege

[AeneasBK]

That doesn't mean you can't have both.

No absolutely. But when your government spends a third of its budget to provide healthcare; at the expense of educating the newer generations; we're just making a massive problem for us down the line when the older generations are alive much longer than they should be; and the younger generations don't have a clue how to fix them

[bergmann620]

It seems to me like it's plainly a privilege, but one that should be granted to all participating members of wealthy countries. I'm not sure how something that costs other people's money can be considered a "right". Rights are things that intrinsically belong to you, that the government and other entities have no valid right to take away from you.

I'm pretty much rowing the same boat as you.

it's obviously not a negative or natural right, as it has to be provided to you by someone else. It could (and should) be a positive right- part of the social contract- the same as the right to legal assistance when prosecuted.

To a degree, we have that, even in the U.S. per our rules for emergency rooms. We have an interesting conundrum in this country in the sense that the poorest often have some medical coverage, but those just a bit better off don't.

[Deleted]

It should be a right for everyone, money shouldn't come into it.

[AeneasBK]

It should be a right for everyone, money shouldn't come into it.

How is your medical degree coming along?

[Dispraise]

They are talking as in everyone 'has a right' to health care, which means anyone can get health care at 'no cost', which means the burden of service is placed on everyone outside of the person demanding their 'right to health care'. So, basically entitlement.

Well, I believe that care should be available with as little burden placed upon the sufferer as possible, but I wouldn't go quite so far as to guarantee it as an entitlement.

[Deleted]

The fact anyone thinks it's a right, and you think it should be free completely confounds me.
Do you know how much modern hospitals cost to run?

Firefighters, policemen, EMT and many other professions also indirectly save lives, using your argument they should also work for free.

Entitlement attitudes will only ruin us.

You pay for it through taxes. I don't think it's unreasonable to be provided health care for free(It's not actually free, just doesn't put such a heavy economical burden on the individual.) when you're a citizen of the country.

[Spectral]

It should be a right for everyone, money shouldn't come into it.

That's magical thinking. Money has to come into it and does even in nations with universal health care. Triage and cost-saving measures are a necessity to avoid bankrupting a nation.

[PACOX]

Technically, it's a privilege or its a special class. I wouldn't call it a right when you're technically forcing someone to provide their expertise to others, they cannot choose to deny their services if something is considered a right which goes against certain liberty clauses.

But all that really doesn't matter since it should be basic human decency to afford all citizens so form of health care, which is the case now but it's a piss poor level of health care.

Long term treatments are tough to handle though. They are very expensive. No one wants to commit to a government based system for valid and invalid reasons. And we know insurance companies only care so much about human decency, and by that they pay people to not care. And then you have doctors who aren't willing to take pay cuts. They deserve the money, med school is expensive, the hours are rough, and insurance isn't' cheap but a lot of them could afford to cut their profits. But I'm also not really into creating artificial caps on wages in the private sector

Its all fucked.

[JohnBrown1917]

The fact anyone thinks it's a right, and you think it should be free completely confounds me.
Do you know how much modern hospitals cost to run?

Firefighters, policemen, EMT and many other professions also indirectly save lives, using your argument they should also work for free.

Entitlement attitudes will only ruin us.

So if you can't afford health care? You're fucked?


I'm sure that will go over well, and people wonder who the far right is disliked.

[Deleted]

No absolutely. But when your government spends a third of its budget to provide healthcare; at the expense of educating the newer generations; we're just making a massive problem for us down the line when the older generations are alive much longer than they should be; and the younger generations don't have a clue how to fix them

There are bigger issues with education than just the amount of funding it gets. I'm all for channeling a bunch money into education but that doesn't fix poor teachers, political agenda's in the classroom (the whole creationism vs evolution debate in the science class is a prime example of that stupidity) or education accessibility.

[AeneasBK]

Why are we making that decision? Spend less on defense and force companies to pay a living wage. Our budget will find magical amounts of money never thought possible.

Don't ask me; whenever these debates come around people care more about their "dyin' ol' nan" than teaching kids to be the nxt generation of doctors. Meanwhile our medical training facilities are lacking; and a third of NHS doctors have to be recruited from overseas.

[Spectral]

I'm all for channeling a bunch money into education...

Just to be clear, the United States already channels far more money per capita into primary education than any country in the world. Inasmuch as there are problems with education here, they don't have much to do with funding. Frequently, the most expensive public schools in a state are the worst in the state. See Buffalo and Baltimore public schools for great examples of this. The spending is staggering, yet the results are terrible.

[Vyxn]

Do you believe access to health care is a right or is it a privilege only offered to those who have money for it?

you have a misconception what does a right curtail and what a privilege curtails
having a right doesn't mean that right comes to you for free
I have a right to own a gun does that then mean it is my right to have that gun provided to me at no cost of my own?

[AeneasBK]

There are bigger issues with education than just the amount of funding it gets. I'm all for channeling a bunch money into education but that doesn't fix poor teachers, political agenda's in the classroom (the whole creationism vs evolution debate in the science class is a prime example of that stupidity) or education accessibility.

Again, I can't compare education in the UK to in the US. Here in the UK if you want your kid to get a good education you send them to private school. And if you want them to have good healthcare you get them private health insurance.

[Deleted]

Absolutely. I have private health care (it's fairly cheap in Australia) but I still believe that there should be an inferior and slower form of health care for the peasantry that is too incompetent to get something better. With private health care, I am way ahead of any lines or queues and can go whenever and wherever I want because I paid the small amount extra. That's how things should be. The successful should get ahead of the plebs but the plebs should still be taken care of.

This is precisely the kind of disgusting viewpoint that allows many such disgraceful inequalities in our societies to exist. You sir define the word pleb.

[Asera]

it's obviously not a negative or natural right, as it has to be provided to you by someone else. It could (and should) be a positive right- part of the social contract- the same as the right to legal assistance when prosecuted.

Oh boy, the 'social contract' argument. Here we go.

[Deleted]

you have a misconception what does a right curtail and what a privilege curtails
having a right doesn't mean that right comes to you for free
I have a right to own a gun does that then mean it is my right to have that gun provided to me at no cost of my own?

It wouldn't be free, it would be paid for by taxes.

You could even see it as an investment, you pay for peoples education and then for them to go succumb to some illness they could've easily gotten help with if access to health care was a right, making that investment in their education a waste.

[Bakis]

That's magical thinking. Money has to come into it and does even in nations with universal health care. Triage and cost-saving measures are a necessity to avoid bankrupting a nation.

Do you know many countries with universal healthcare that are going anywhere near bankrupt cos of it?

[AeneasBK]

Do you know many countries with universal healthcare that are going anywhere near bankrupt cos of it?

Define bankrupt? I mean aren't most of us all in debt as nations?

[Deleted]

Again, I can't compare education in the UK to in the US. Here in the UK if you want your kid to get a good education you send them to private school. And if you want them to have good healthcare you get them private health insurance.

Funny, i'm speaking from the UKs perspective. The UK has vastly less issues with political agendas in the classroom but has massive issues with shitty teaching in High Schools. College teachers at Levels 3, 4 and 5 are very good.