12-man flex

[Hildrande]

Not shure how it is other places, but my experience from pugging flex through OQ and other raids is that 11-13-man 3-healed groups has become the standard.

I find this very boring, especially the 3-heal part, which people insist on even when I go in on my normal-geared main.

Why is this happening? Is it the same in US and on EU Horde? Is 12-man really the sweet spot for flex?

[Jordaen]

I've had flex groups for part 1 insist on 3 healing even though I was on my druid that had, at that point, cleared 10/14 HEROIC SoO. Apparently that wasn't good enough for them and "they just wanted to be safe." needless to say, I could have solo healed it and the other two healers practically went afk and got a free ride. It's their group, they can do whatever they want with it. If you don't like it you can always make your own group. If I was an undergeared healer I would love to have two other people helping me out. It puts a lot less stress on me, especially since I don't know how derpy everyone is.

This is alliance on US, and it also happened to me as horde so it's probably not an isolated "problem."

[Revi]

There's not really any point in filling up more once you get to that point. Inv more dps? need more healing. Inv more healing? Bosses die slower/need more dps. Once you have 2 tanks, 2-3 healers, and fill up with dps as much as healers can handle, why would you go bigger?

Even if you did have enough players available for 25-man, it's much more hassle to organize and get everyone following the same tactics. More risk, more effort, no reward.

[RoKPaNda]

Very very rarely do I see Flex groups that want to take more than 14 people. And you're right, it really is boring.

[Hildrande]

Well, 25-man normal has the warforged drops.

I believe this is something Blizz should watch and adress.

[satimy]

Whats funny is that with the exception of a few bosses flex is easier with more people. Lets say a boss is designed for each person to do 130k dps, if you have 17 dps at 160k you are gaining 30k dps with every dps you add.

[Kharli]

it's in general merley cause when you hit 15 people, the raid's start's to SCALE alot more..to your group.
example.
Malk. 14 people = 3 puddles to soak. aka Ten man.
15+ = 25 man puddles.

[ShmooDude]

it's in general merley cause when you hit 15 people, the raid's start's to SCALE alot more..to your group.
example.
Malk. 14 people = 3 puddles to soak. aka Ten man.
15+ = 25 man puddles.

False, please don't spread misinformation. You get 'more' puddles adding more people, but it isn't instantly 25 man (which would be 7 puddles, WAAY too much for 15 people to soak)

[Raugnaut]

The 12/13/14/15 are imaginary numbers. You only have to start dealing with extra mechanics (Extra touch/prison/puddle/ect) at 18, and 25 players. Bosses health also scales up slower then the added dps of people- if all dps can pull their wieght, then the boss will die significantly (like 60% faster with 25 ppl compared to 12) faster. Essentially, IF everyone can pull their own wieght, then go all the way to 25. Sadly, however, most people are fails in raiding, so you go with a lower number so you can moniter the fails.

[PosPosPos]

The 12/13/14/15 are imaginary numbers. You only have to start dealing with extra mechanics (Extra touch/prison/puddle/ect) at 18, and 25 players. Bosses health also scales up slower then the added dps of people- if all dps can pull their wieght, then the boss will die significantly (like 60% faster with 25 ppl compared to 12) faster. Essentially, IF everyone can pull their own wieght, then go all the way to 25. Sadly, however, most people are fails in raiding, so you go with a lower number so you can moniter the fails.

You are wrong.

You start getting extra puddles on Malkorok and Touch on Garrosh once you go from 13 to 14.

18 is definitely not THE major breakpoint.

[JemiS]

Not sure what you're talking about on Garrosh, you only get two MCs at any size now.

Malk puddles scale up for each person over 10, you get a partial chance for each person you add.

[Asrialol]

You are wrong.

You start getting extra puddles on Malkorok and Touch on Garrosh once you go from 13 to 14.

18 is definitely not THE major breakpoint.

Have you read the blue post regarding this very topic? I think not.

There are no breakpoints. Once you reach 15 player, certain mechanics has a chance of scaling upwards. At 13 players there is for instance a 60% chance of getting a 3rd Shadow Word: Bane on Protectors. At 14 players, there is a 80% chance. At 15 players, you'll always get that 3rd bane.

[Mormolyce]

There is no sweet spot.

Unfortunately people believe in them no matter what Blizzard says, because word of mouth.

[kamuimac]

Is 12-man really the sweet spot for flex?

no some idiots came up with that and other retards just kept spreading this urban-legend then even bad players are convinced it is - the easiest possible flex is 25 man flex due to how flex scalling works.

it's in general merley cause when you hit 15 people, the raid's start's to SCALE alot more..to your group.
example.
Malk. 14 people = 3 puddles to soak. aka Ten man.
15+ = 25 man puddles.

You start getting extra puddles on Malkorok and Touch on Garrosh once you go from 13 to 14.

.

this is utter bs - and all idiots spreading this nonsense should be publicly humiliateds laughed and reported to their RLs for not not having clue how mechanics in fights works so their teammates can laugh from their stupidity too- thats not how flex mechanics works since december i belive - others have already explained it - u have 20% scaling chance of geting mechanic with each player. exapt for garosh whihc has been hotfixed to get only 2 mcs - thats why 25 flex garosh is utter joke and easiest which can be - yet idiots still take 12 people to garosh and wonder why they wipe if they fuck up interupts.

There's not really any point in filling up more once you get to that point. Inv more dps? need more healing. Inv more healing? Bosses die slower/need more dps. Once you have 2 tanks, 2-3 healers, and fill up with dps as much as healers can handle, why would you go bigger?

bosses die slower ? really ? that 10-15 seconds will make difference for u in easy mode ? god frikin damit -_- also if your healers are not utter derps u can easily 3-4 heal 25 man flex -_- and 25 man flex premades then - what a shocker - have really good players coming cause they are bored and some of them always bring in their bored hc geared friends with them to fill up - if there was option of making flex 40 man it would be the eaisest difficulty and probably most fun one.

[PosPosPos]

Not sure what you're talking about on Garrosh, you only get two MCs at any size now.

Malk puddles scale up for each person over 10, you get a partial chance for each person you add.

Nope, malk puddles still scale from raid size breakpoints, much like Garrosh MCs.

[Deleted]

All the breakpoints were removed a while ago, just idiots being idiots.

[PosPosPos]

Have you read the blue post regarding this very topic? I think not.

There are no breakpoints. Once you reach 15 player, certain mechanics has a chance of scaling upwards. At 13 players there is for instance a 60% chance of getting a 3rd Shadow Word: Bane on Protectors. At 14 players, there is a 80% chance. At 15 players, you'll always get that 3rd bane.

Debuffs have a % chance to scale as you add players, but certain mechanics like Garrosh MC and Malkorok puddles are ALWAYS scaled via raid size breakpoints because it is frustrating to deal with random spawns of puddles and MCs that can cause wipes.

Debuffs on the other hand are easy to deal with, you just dispel one extra time and doesn't cause wipes even if you don't.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=225217/f...oth-episode-20

Link for clarity:

This is the part that applies for Malkorok puddles and Garrosh MCs

"There will be a handful of exceptions where breakpoints remain necessary. Imprison on Sha of Pride is probably the most notable such example, where you really want to pre-plan who will cover which prisons, and having a random number of targets each cast would cause frustrating unpredictability."

- - - Updated - - -

All the breakpoints were removed a while ago, just idiots being idiots.

Again, wrong, not all breakpoints are removed.

[Gnarles Malarkey]

We clear flex multiple times a week with fifteen players, two of them being healers. It's incredibly low-stress regardless of item levels so long as everyone actively makes use of their utilities.

People should be less concerned with trying to game the system and more interested in cooldown rotations and not standing in poo. Flex is easy, sure, but it's not LFR. Don't be a wiener.

[kamuimac]

Nope, malk puddles still scale from raid size breakpoints, much like Garrosh MCs.

stop spreading this nonsense - just stop - go look into blue responses if u dont belive us - just stop spreading utter nonsese . they do not - there are not anymore breakpoints on malkorok and garosh - u can get extra puddle up from 11 players - u cannnot get extra mc regardless if u bring 11 or 25 man , its always 2 mcs - just pls crawl back to whatever hole u crawled from and read hotfixes from december/january

people like u are exackt reason urban legends like flex magical breakpoint spread like cancer.

[PosPosPos]

stop spreading this nonsense - just stop - go look into blue responses if u dont belive us - just stop spreading utter nonsese . they do not - there are not anymore breakpoints on malkorok and garosh - u can get extra puddle up from 11 players - u cannnot get extra mc regardless if u bring 11 or 25 man , its always 2 mcs - just pls crawl back to whatever hole u crawled from and read hotfixes from december/january

people like u are exackt reason urban legends like flex magical breakpoint spread like cancer.

Link the blue responses then. Since you are so sure this is in effect - the burden of proof is on you, not us to prove what you are saying is right.

Edit:

Actually, let me help you:

December 16

Classes

Priest
Talents
Resolved an issue where From Darkness Comes Light was not activating correctly from Smite.

Creatures

[Requires a realm restart.] Resolved an issue that caused Dragonmaw and Wildhammer NPCs in Twilight Highlands to be non-attackable.

Raids, Dungeons, and Scenarios

To help smooth difficulty scaling as players are added or removed from a Flexible raid, several raid boss abilities that target additional players as the size of a Flexible raid increases will use weighted randomization rather than strict breakpoints. For more information on the change, check out this thread on the Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios forum.
Siege of Orgrimmar
Cross-Realm raid browser (located in the Social Pane under Other Raids on the Raid tab) now has a minimum item level requirement for players attempting to list for Siege of Orgrimmar on Flexible raid difficulty.
Vale of Eternal Sorrows requires a minimum item level of 510.
Gates of Retribution requires a minimum item level of 517.
The Underhold requires a minimum item level of 524.
Downfall requires a minimum item level of 531.

Keyword being "several", not "all".

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...aid-14-people/

Read the second blue post to find out *surprise* there's a fixed breakpoint for Malkorok.

That's interesting, since currently the "magic number" for getting a third Imprison target is 18 players.

The way Malkorok Implosions should work is that with 14+ players (yes, 14) you get a fourth spawning, and then an additional one for each 3 players past that. If you're seeing a huge jump in the number of Implosions spawning based on a small change in raid size, that sounds like a bug, and I'd love to hear more so that we can investigate the issue.

Extra puddle at 14. Additional puddle every 3 players after that. Couldn't get any clearer than that.