[@arena123] removal possibly

[Spyro-]

I'm gonna put another example, just in case somebody still doesn't get it.

Dumb approach (4 buttons per ability to arena123):

Macro 1:
/cast [@target, nomod] Polymorph
/cast [@focus, mod: lshift] Polymorph

Macro 2:
/cast [@arena1] Polymorph

Macro 3:
/cast [@arena2] Polymorph

Macro 4:
/cast [@arena3] Polymorph

Intelligent approach (1 button per ability to arena123):

Macro 1 (the only one):
/cast [@target, nomod] Polymorph
/cast [@focus, mod: lshift] Polymorph
/cast [@arena1, mod: rshift] Polymorph (rshift remapped to NAGA1 for example)
/cast [@arena2, mod: rctrl] Polymorph (rctrl remapped to NAGA2 for example)
/cast [@arena3, mod: ralt] Polymorph (ralt remapped to NAGA3 for example)

The button/macro bloat only exists if you use the "Dumb approach", people need to learn that you can remap keys to modifiers and that there are more modifiers than they think.

[Yvaelle]

currently in this situation, a 1500 warrior and a 2800 warrior both hear gladiatorlossa announce blink, and then one second later announce polymorph. both warriors then press their keybind to charge/pummel/stormbolt arena target 3, and the polymorph is interrupted

with this change, both warriors would still hear blink and polymorph, the 1500 warrior would freeze for 5 seconds and try to work out where the mage is, and the polymorph would go off. the 2800 warrior, aware previously that polymorph dr was about to expire on his healer and that the mage has blink off cooldown, would presumably already have the mage on focus expecting the cc attempt at some point in the next 10 seconds, and is able to charge/pummel/stormbolt the polymorph cast. the 1500 warrior reacts after the event and fails, the 2800 warrior anticipates the event and succeeds

Remind me to play my warrior more - apparently the only difference between being 1500 and being Rank 1, is a modicum of awareness about CC on your healer

Getting rid of arena 1/2/3 would have no effect on mods like GladiatorLoSsa or Spellalerter or Weakauras - since they all function by reading the chat log.

Also - as per your own example - a 2800 warrior would apparently focus the mage (and apparently you guys are in favour of keeping @focus, even though the same arguments against arena1/2/3 apply to focus). If every 1500 warrior is willing to have arena1/2/3 charge-pummel macros right now, I'm sure they would also have @focus charge-pummel macros if you removed the arena frames.

So again, the proposed change has no effect on the things you guys are complaining about.

The only thing you are creating is reduced awareness - since you can only be aware of the casts of your target and your focus at any one time - as opposed to currently being aware of all casts. Being a better player doesn't change this - a Rank 1 player can still only watch their target and their focus in the proposed change - all you are doing is making the UI shittier and harder to use: not increasing skill cap, not reducing button bloat, not making the game twitchier.

that's actually one of the problems: you need tons of macros

It doesn't remove a single macro from the ones he listed, it just removes a single modifier from his macros - zero effect on button bloat.



Functionally, arena1/2/3 is the same as having a second @focus window - that's all it is. With arena1/2/3 you can target 3 people quickly and easily, with target+focus you can target two. Why is @focus2 such an issue?

[Flaim]

The only thing you are creating is reduced awareness - since you can only be aware of the casts of your target and your focus at any one time - as opposed to currently being aware of all casts. Being a better player doesn't change this - a Rank 1 player can still only watch their target and their focus in the proposed change - all you are doing is making the UI shittier and harder to use: not increasing skill cap, not reducing button bloat, not making the game twitchier.

why that? nobody said the arena frames will be gone, only the ability to cast directly at them. and if i'm not mistaking they do show casts of the corresponding unit.
a better player will decide wisely based on experience who he has to have focused at certain times, while a worse player just keeps the healer in for quick ccs and fails to kick a poly because of slower reaction/lack of prediction.

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let's turn the discussion around.
what are the reason for arena123 to stay?

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UPDATE 3


guess it speaks for itself.
they consider the removal of it and just needed feedback to make a decision

[Terahertz]

wouldn't mind it, if vanish/invis wouldn't drop focus, and a nerf to mage's invis would be needed, not being able to spam silence a mage/rogue opener out of stealth is scary.

You would still be able to target them and interrupt them. All this would do is make it so you would have to manually target or focus your enemy instead of pressing one macro in order to do something.

The change would affect the majority of the players, but there are a ton of players out there who don't play with arena123 macros and manually target or focus them to CC them (Venruki is a prime example as well as Noliferqt).

I wouldn't really mind the change, but I don't think this is really an issue. The real issue is having addons play the game for you.

I'm gonna put another example, just in case somebody still doesn't get it.

Dumb approach (4 buttons per ability to arena123):



Intelligent approach (1 button per ability to arena123):




The button/macro bloat only exists if you use the "Dumb approach", people need to learn that you can remap keys to modifiers and that there are more modifiers than they think.

It's all personal preference though. Some people prefer for example alt-qwe as arena123 abilities. Some prefer nomod, modshift, modctrl as arena123. Some, like me, prefer alt-qwe and nonmod and modshift (for focus).

I must say tho, thank you for that addon. It will make playing arena much easier and much more fun without changing too much.

[Deleted]

It would make things more annoying. We would have to use /target arena123 macros and spam them along with abilities. What they need to do is removal of Arena123 from API, so they wouldnt be targetable via any macros or addons like Gladius.

[Flaim]

It would make things more annoying. We would have to use /target arena123 macros and spam them along with abilities. What they need to do is removal of Arena123 from API, so they wouldnt be targetable via any macros or addons like Gladius.

what he wrote there is not that /tar arena1 will be possible as macro (only via keybind). he meant the funtionality in itself.

[Deleted]

what he wrote there is not that /tar arena1 will be possible as macro (only via keybind). he meant the funtionality in itself.

Ok, so instead of having 3 macros we will have 3 keybinds. Makes no difference. They should remove it altogether.

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And to be honest, if we are about that, I would remove 'Focus' functionality as well (I'm dead serious now). /cast [@focus] is no different than arena modifiers, it serves no purpose other than making everything clunky as fuck (restealths for example).

[Treeskee]

I'm probably not the best person to weight in on this topic as I don't ever do crazy high ranked PvP and pushes up to like 2500 and crap, but I think this is nice and (especially when combined with the reduction to cc incoming) will maybe help lower skilled people get into easier.

[Terahertz]

I'm probably not the best person to weight in on this topic as I don't ever do crazy high ranked PvP and pushes up to like 2500 and crap, but I think this is nice and (especially when combined with the reduction to cc incoming) will maybe help lower skilled people get into easier.

Thing is, it really won't affect lower skilled players at all. Those macros are something higher skilled players use and it's all preference. Enough players are succesful by swapping their focus/targets around in order to CC while others prefer using arena123 macros.

Below 2k players most likely don't even use arena123 targetting/focusing binds nor arena123 macros.

[Baracuda]

I'm gonna put another example, just in case somebody still doesn't get it.

Dumb approach (4 buttons per ability to arena123):



Intelligent approach (1 button per ability to arena123):




The button/macro bloat only exists if you use the "Dumb approach", people need to learn that you can remap keys to modifiers and that there are more modifiers than they think.

What are you some gladiator :3?

[Gennoken]

Tbh, the only solution is to remove them, cuz allowing /target arena1 and not allowing /cast [@arena1] Wind Shear, will lead to a macro like
/target arena1
/cast Wind Shear
/targetlasttarget

witch is axactly the same as /cast [@arena1] Wind Shear

[Flaim]

Tbh, the only solution is to remove them, cuz allowing /target arena1 and not allowing /cast [@arena1] Wind Shear, will lead to a macro like
/target arena1
/cast Wind Shear
/targetlasttarget

witch is axactly the same as /cast [@arena1] Wind Shear

guess you didn't get that the command "/target arena1" would disappear aswell. you would only have this ability via direct keybind

[Starsinn]

There will be an addon that copy/pastes the players actual name into /target macros available within the first month.

So unless they completely remove /target command.........

This could end up having the client disable all addons when you enter a rated arena or BG.

How about them apples?

[Snuggli]

I don't believe having @arena macros lessens the skill level at all. It does increase button bloat but it also makes arena feel a lot more smooth.

There's a point where playability and ease of use has to take the front seat over 'skill'. If we have a spell that is going to be commonly used on 3 people, why limit it to a target and a focus and make it fiddly and awkward to cast on the third? Doesn't make sense.

Removing Arena123 completely would definitely reduce the skillcap in Arena. Keeping target arena123 as keybinds but removing them from macros does reduce button/macro bloat (which arguably reduces skillcap as you have less buttons to use) but it also means that you'll constantly be swapping back and forth between targets. Lets say I have Arena1 on target and Arena2 on focus as they are the healer. Arena3 just started casting a polymorph on my healer. I have to press target arena3 and then counterspell, that's 2 buttons where it is currently, and should be, 1.

People saying arena123 is clunky, for people who are playing at gladiator levels NOT having arena123 would be almost unplayable on classes like mage, warlock, etc.