Who is currently playing Wildstar and still subbed to WoW?

[Thychiz]

Was playing Wildstar while still subbed and raiding on WoW, Now not playing Wildstar, the desire to play completely died off for me after about a week or two. Still raiding on WoW, but that's the only reason I log on.

[Lazuli]

I recently resubbed to WoW for alts and achievements, no time for W* and I don't like the look of it anyway. WoD is gonna take way too much of my time.

[Osmeric]

Surely this issue must be connected with the fact the MMO market has been dominated by 1 product for so long. Its not healthy in any market to have this situation, afterall, thats why we have monopoly commissions! lol

I don't think it's a result of the market domination by WoW, though. I think what happened is that each player has a finite amount of MMO in them.

MMOs are based on a kind of psychological trick, delivering a rush from synthetic awards and achievements in a social context. I think this trick eventually wears out. Jaded players, no longer getting the same rush they did, try other MMOs in a vain attempt to get it back, but it rarely works, or works for long.

I think this would have happened to the MMO space eventually, even without a dominant MMO. It's just that it happened in WoW, because WoW was dominant.

[BenBos]

Oh dear Benbos is on the case with his typical bias bullshit *sigh*

Firstly not all of the games i listed are, or ever have been, subscription based MMOs.

Secondly, not all of them have switched from sub fees to free.

Thirdly, my point has fukk all to do with how these MMOs were released compared to how they are currently functioning. My point was that all MMOs right now, at this moment in time, appear to be stabilised in their sub numbers. And thats why none are currently failing.

If u cannot get your head around this VERY SIMPLE point then please refrain from responding to my posts..

Well then ... let's analyse your statement:

Subscription based MMO's that went free to play and no longer need subscriptions are the VAST majority of all AAA MMO's from LotrO to Star Wars, Star trek, Rift, you name them : they all FAILED in retaining the fixed subscription after a few months/years. THEY FAILED in retaining their subscriptions over RECENT YEARS.

Secondly let's have a closer look at some of these "stabilised" free to play thingies:

Rift' situation on Sep 2013: 22 servers.... Rift situation on April 2014 ... 15 servers. Rift had 99 servers at launch btw ...

So unless you mean a 35% loss over 10 months time is "stable" I think we are done discussing the obvious, and these FACTS come from AFTER the game went free to play ...

Not even mentioning the recent downfall in player numbers in GW2, FF 14, Elder Scrolls on line etc.

In fact WoW and EVE are the last ones standing in having 500K subs or above.

The rest had to be offered without fixed subscriptions or they died like .... Warhammer, Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, Hellfire and many, many others.

That 's facts body, whether you want to put it under the doormat or not.

If you post nonsense about a stabilised MMO situation, you better get some facts and figures straight.

Just look at how mmorpg.com had to CHANGE their concurrent number of logged web visitors. That number went DOWN from 400+ concurrent logged visitors to just above 70 in prime time until they finally deleted the concurrent stats more than 6 months ago...for commercial reasons of course.

WAR AoC SwTor all had over 100 servers on launch. This time new MMO's launch on 20-30% of the player numbers we saw a few years back.... MMO's are done for the masses and WoW is not even to blame.


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I guess we have ONE common point: games like Destiny could open up a camouflaged MMO market again, but I doubt women or older players will be attracted massively by shooters.

It is also a welcome addition to see other directions in on line play than hopping from one question mark to another and copycat WoW for 8 years straight...

People KNOW it by now.

[Deleted]

I think this would have happened to the MMO space eventually, even without a dominant MMO. It's just that it happened in WoW, because WoW was dominant.

Whereas i agree with your ppoint that players only have a 'finite amount of MMo in them' i cant help but see the MMO market itself is also to blame in the downturn.

I cant help but believe that if the MMO market was made up of 3 or 10 great MMOs and they all had a similiar market share, then there be a healthy competition and therefore the content production for all of them would be better. Healthy competition generates more effort, more funding and more innovation from the devs.

All the time 1 mega-MMO exists it stiffles all of the others and ultimately isnt healthy for the genre overall.

EDIT: @Benbos i said if u cannot understand my post then please dont reply anymore.

[Doomchicken]

I don't think it's a result of the market domination by WoW, though. I think what happened is that each player as a finite amount of MMO in them.

MMOs are based on a kind of psychological trick, delivering a rush from synthetic awards and achievements in a social context. I think this trick eventually wears out. Jaded players, no longer getting the same rush they did, try other MMOs in a vain attempt to get it back, but it rarely works, or works for long.

I think this would have happened to the MMO space eventually, even without a dominant MMO. It's just that it happened in WoW, because WoW was dominant.

I agree with this post 1000000000000000000 percent.

[BenBos]

Whereas i agree with your ppoint that players only have a 'finite amount of MMo in them' i cant help but see the MMO market itself is also to blame in the downturn.

I cant help but believe that if the MMO market was made up of 3 or 10 great MMOs and they all had a similiar market share, then there be a healthy competition and therefore the content production for all of them would be better. Healthy competition generates more effort, more funding and more innovation.

All the time 1 mega-MMO exists it stiffles all of the others and ultimately isnt healthy for the genre overall.

EDIT: @Benbos i said if u cannot understand my post then please dont reply anymore.

@endemonadia: Your points were proven WRONG by simple facts and figures anyone can trace on the internet.

The vast majority of MMO's had to go free to play and abandon subscriptions and even then they lost players MASSIVELY in the last 2 years.

If you want to discuss things' stay to the FACTS. Explain why a free to play Rift LOST 35% of its servers in just 10 months time in the LAST year alone ...

Putting fingers in your ears and yelling "nananana I don't read and listen" is simply silly.

If you want to fabricate an illusion stay away from discussions: NEW MMO's FAILED massively in retaining subscriptions and going free to play was not even a solution to stop the bleeding of their player base.

Everyone who has been following this industry knows this, except you I guess.

[corngrenade]

I think what has happened is that new MMOs have had disappointing uptake, compared to the expectations that drove the decisions to develop them. As a result, new MMO development appears to have been choked off. Some games have still been trickling out of the pipeline, due to lag between commitment to development and release.

Game developers these days are going to look at the high costs and high risks of MMOs and decide to put their money elsewhere. MOBAs or mobile games, for example. A proposal to make another WoW clone is probably not going to get greenlighted.

Yes, they would need to make a game that is fundamentally different than an "MMO". I would say a "persistent" online RPG focusing on small groups of 3 to 5 players would have a better shot at getting a lot of attention. None of the traditional MMOs do 3 or 5 man "raid-difficulty" type content that WoW does in 10 to 25 man raids. I think a Diablo-type game with some WoW-style boss fights would be awesome if someone could actually pull it off.

In short: think LoL RPG. : )

[Deleted]

@endemonadia: Your points were proven WRONG by simple facts and figures anyone can trace on the internet.

The only place my points were proven wrong r in your head... as always.

U have posted a load of garbage which had fukk all to do with my original post. I suggest u learn to read and reply to what people write instead of taking every opportunity to post your bias bullshit and invent argument where they dont exist.

[Akraen]

Like 2/3 of my guild and not one person likes it.

[Baconeggcheese]

NEW MMO's FAILED massively in retaining subscriptions and going free to play was not even a solution to stop the bleeding of their player base.

I think you missed it again...

You think these games have "failed" but as long as a game is profitable it has not "failed". If you expected them to turn into the next coming of wow and that is the measure of succeeding vs failing you're insane. The games have stable player bases albeit small ones and continue to be profitable, I don't comprehend how that is considered failing.

I also somewhat agree with ende's point about wows monopoly. Every other game that has come out since wow is held up against wow and not only needs to offer everything wow offers immediately at launch completely bug free as a baseline and then to be successful offer even MORE than that for the game to not be terrible to people and "fail".

All of these things are unreasonable, even with wildstar you see the forums at launch riddled with people essentially going "WHY ISN'T THIS GAME WOW I WANT THIS GAME TO PLAY EXACTLY LIKE WOW TO A T WHAT THE HELL THIS IS GOING TO FAIL UNSUBBING SUCKERS". It isn't healthy for the competition when they're expected to be said other game with a different skin. Ohwel not much we can do about that situation anyway.

The market for MMORPG's has definitely gotten older, which shows that younger kids really aren't getting into it which explains the attrition. Maybe a large reason why wildstars art design is so over the top cartoony? Kinda like the problem with comic book shops dying out because its literally the same people keeping them alive by coming in every week and once those people are no longer buying they won't be pulling in enough fresh faces to survive.

Its that stupid "OH YOU'RE A NEWGEN GTFO NOOB I'VE PLAYED SINCE LAUNCH" mentality that kills its own community by driving new faces away.

[Osmeric]

In short: think LoL RPG. : )

Hmmm! Maybe we now know why Ghostcrawler (and some others) went to Riot.