Artorias the Abysswalker VS Ornstein the Dragonslayer

[Velshin]

Those who played the dark souls series know who are these awesome knights.

So who do you think will win in a 1 vs 1 combat to the death !




VS




Let the battle begin !

[Wreckeded]

Ornstein look at that red plume on his helmet, how come my character cannot have it I will never know.

[Deleted]

Artorias corrupted or non-corrupted, also broken arm or no broken arm, shield or no shield?

Dammit, be coherent with your questions!

[Velshin]

Artorias corrupted or non-corrupted, also broken arm or no broken arm, shield or no shield?

Dammit, be coherent with your questions!

The corrupted Artorias the one we fought in the DLC. Sorry for not making it clear.

[Deleted]

The corrupted Artorias the one we fought in the DLC. Sorry for not making it clear.

Well he is missing a functional arm and his shield. I guess Ornstein is the more powerful at that point, since he has lightning abilities and seems to be as fast as Artorios.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

If we're going by in game, the Chosen Undead took on both Ornstein and Smoug at the same time. Artorias had a broken arm and still put up a good fight by himself.
I'm giving it to Artorias.

[Velshin]

Well he is missing a functional arm and his shield. I guess Ornstein is the more powerful at that point, since he has lightning abilities and seems to be as fast as Artorios.

Yes indeed but let us not forget that prime Artorias with shield and healthy arm didn't have the abyss dark magic. I could say the abyss dark magic is more than enough to compensate for the loss of his arm and shield...maybe. :P

[Deleted]

Yes indeed but let us not forget that prime Artorias with shield and healthy arm didn't have the abyss dark magic. I could say the abyss dark magic is more than enough to compensate for the loss of his arm and shield...maybe. :P

Against an opponent as fast as Ornstein, I think it is pretty useless. Ornstein also have far greater reach with lightning than Artorios' abyss dark magic.

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If we're going by in game, the Chosen Undead took on both Ornstein and Smoug at the same time. Artorias had a broken arm and still put up a good fight by himself.
I'm giving it to Artorias.

I think that falls under game-mechanics and not actual lore

[Velshin]

Against an opponent as fast as Ornstein, I think it is pretty useless. Ornstein also have far greater reach with lightning than Artorios' abyss dark magic.

Hmm interesting point...To be honest it will be very close fight I'm not even sure who will win hehe. :P

[Deleted]

Hmm interesting point...To be honest it will be very close fight I'm not even sure who will win hehe. :P

You'd also have to take a look at what each of them is actually good at. Artorios is a knight with the purpose to root out the corruption of the abyss, and Ornstein is (duh) a dragon slayer.
So Artorios likely has abilities and a certain amount of protection against abyss' corruption and whatever that entails. Artorios shield especially is one of the factors that I would count in, since it is a very unique and strong shield "Boasts consistent defense and divine, protection against various status effects", he is losing out on an effective way of protecting against Ornstein's lighting attack from a long distance.

Ornstein is far ranged with his lightning and is the prime dragonslayer even in close combat. Skills that may not be perfect against Artorios but still his speed and spear/halberd (whatever it is), out ranges Artorios' greatsword. Especially his lightning is a big factor, as mentioned above, Artorios lost his only chance of defense against it, by losing his shield.
Ornstein is common with fighting greater and stronger opponents and uses movement to avoid attacks and lightning to hit from afar. Artorios is used to (basicily) zombies and his greatest threat was being corrupted, hence the shield was an important part of his array. His greatsword combined with the shield made him a good fighter against corrupted enemies but against a bigger and stronger opponent he isn't know to be good (he lost to Manus).

[OrcsRLame]

Against an opponent as fast as Ornstein, I think it is pretty useless. Ornstein also have far greater reach with lightning than Artorios' abyss dark magic.

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I think that falls under game-mechanics and not actual lore

I'm not convinced there's a separation between game mechanics and lore with Dark Souls. This isn't wow where the devs have repeatedly stated gameplay > lore. Artorias does have higher stats than Ornstein, and I think his attacks are overall more difficult to deal with than Ornstein's.

[-aiko-]

Well, lore-wise Ornstein had a higher rank than Artorias, though this is muddy. Ornstein is the assumed captain of the Four Knights of Gwyn which Artorias is a member. Whether that is due to his strength I cannot say but my vote is still going to Artorias. Artorias was notorious for his unbreakable will which I believe would give him the edge over Ornstein.

Gameplay wise Artorias was harder than Ornstein imo. The Ornstein and Smough fight is only considered harder by some people because they are together. If you kill Smough first Ornstein is really not that hard.

[Velshin]

Well, lore-wise Ornstein had a higher rank than Artorias, though this is muddy. Ornstein is the assumed captain of the Four Knights of Gwyn which Artorias is a member. Whether that is due to his strength I cannot say but my vote is still going to Artorias. Artorias was notorious for his unbreakable will which I believe would give him the edge over Ornstein.

Gameplay wise Artorias was harder than Ornstein imo. The Ornstein and Smough fight is only considered harder by some people because they are together. If you kill Smough first Ornstein is really not that hard.

Well super Ornstein phase is not easy either to be honest hehe. :P

But yeah I got what you mean.

[Jester Joe]

Gameplay wise Artorias was harder than Ornstein imo. The Ornstein and Smough fight is only considered harder by some people because they are together. If you kill Smough first Ornstein is really not that hard.

I'll be honest, I haven't played Dark Souls, but I've heard enough about it from my friends. I would say that I don't think in-game matters much for this debate, since if you look at it from a design point of view, if you actually put both bosses as strong as they should be, rather than what they are together, it could be way over the mark of how hard you wanted it to be, I think it would be safe to say that even for Dark Souls, they watered down Ornstein and Smough so they would be combined together to be just as hard as a boss fight, where as since Artorias is alone, he's the only one you're fighting, he would have to be stronger than Ornstein and Smough since it seems like not only is he a later boss fight, he's alone?

Just my two cents about in-game points.

[OrcsRLame]

I'll be honest, I haven't played Dark Souls, but I've heard enough about it from my friends. I would say that I don't think in-game matters much for this debate, since if you look at it from a design point of view, if you actually put both bosses as strong as they should be, rather than what they are together, it could be way over the mark of how hard you wanted it to be, I think it would be safe to say that even for Dark Souls, they watered down Ornstein and Smough so they would be combined together to be just as hard as a boss fight, where as since Artorias is alone, he's the only one you're fighting, he would have to be stronger than Ornstein and Smough since it seems like not only is he a later boss fight, he's alone?

Just my two cents about in-game points.

I don't believe Ornstein and Smough had reduced stats for being together lol. They're just twice as hard as most bosses you fight at that point. And to me, the gameplay and lore are intrinsically linked in Souls. This is not Final Fantasy where characters will be flying around and blowing things up in cutscenes, and then doing jack shit in gameplay. Dark Souls barely even has cutscenes, and typically the boss that's stronger in lore will have higher stats. In fact, I can't think of a time when that's not true. Hell, Seath is immortal in lore, and guess what, he's immortal in gameplay too. You have to take away his immortality to kill him.

I think Artorias' higher stats is indicative of his overall power.

[-aiko-]

Just my two cents about in-game points.

I mostly just used it as further justification why I think Artorias would win. I think lore-wise it's a stronger argument.

[Deleted]

I'm not convinced there's a separation between game mechanics and lore with Dark Souls. This isn't wow where the devs have repeatedly stated gameplay > lore. Artorias does have higher stats than Ornstein, and I think his attacks are overall more difficult to deal with than Ornstein's.

Nito didn't split his soul (which means he is extremely powerful), and can cast a miasma of death and decay (that kills everything), yet ingame he isn't anything to even mention. We are literally talking about a godlike creature, that we can beat with some slashes of a sword.

Artorios only got a small part of Gwyns soul, and the rest is essentially a greatsword and very powerful greatshield (which he doesn't have anymore). Yet apparently is far stronger than Nito.

Does that put into perspective how different gameplay and lore are?

[corebit]

Nito didn't split his soul (which means he is extremely powerful), and can cast a miasma of death and decay (that kills everything), yet ingame he isn't anything to even mention. We are literally talking about a godlike creature, that we can beat with some slashes of a sword.

Artorios only got a small part of Gwyns soul, and the rest is essentially a greatsword and very powerful greatshield (which he doesn't have anymore). Yet apparently is far stronger than Nito.

Does that put into perspective how different gameplay and lore are?

Yes, both Nito and Bed of Chaos drop Lord Souls, and lore-wise they should be the toughest bosses. But gameplay they're both pushovers compared to Smough/Ornstein and Artorias fight.

[OrcsRLame]

Nito didn't split his soul (which means he is extremely powerful), and can cast a miasma of death and decay (that kills everything), yet ingame he isn't anything to even mention. We are literally talking about a godlike creature, that we can beat with some slashes of a sword.

Artorios only got a small part of Gwyns soul, and the rest is essentially a greatsword and very powerful greatshield (which he doesn't have anymore). Yet apparently is far stronger than Nito.

Does that put into perspective how different gameplay and lore are?

The Lords have weakened greatly over time. Artorias isn't just a guy with a greatsword and a broken arm, he's empowered by Manus. Manus, unlike the Lords, has only gotten stronger as the Age of Fire comes to an end and the Dark Soul flourishes through mankind.

That's why the Chosen Undead is able to beat the Lords, they're shadows of their former selves. Nothing wrong with Artorias being stronger than them. If we fought the original Nito at the start of the Age of Fire, he would kill us with barely a thought.

[Benitora]

Nito didn't split his soul (which means he is extremely powerful), and can cast a miasma of death and decay (that kills everything), yet ingame he isn't anything to even mention. We are literally talking about a godlike creature, that we can beat with some slashes of a sword.

Artorios only got a small part of Gwyns soul, and the rest is essentially a greatsword and very powerful greatshield (which he doesn't have anymore). Yet apparently is far stronger than Nito.

Does that put into perspective how different gameplay and lore are?

No, but it's implied that Pinwheel, the weakest boss in the game, actually siphoned off some of the power from it.
Pinwheel was trying to use Nito's Lord soul in order to reverse his spell that trapped his family in one body. (Not entirely sure if this is true, but the Wiki's and a certain Youtuber under the name Vaatividya mentioned something along these lines)

As the description of Nito's Lord soul says:
"Gravelord Nito administers the death of all manner of beings. The power of his soul is so great that it satiates the Lordvessel, despite the fact that much of its energy has already been offered to death."

Which implies that his Lord soul have lost power over the great length of time that he has been "Keeping" it. So Nito, the first of the Dead, is not as powerful as he used to be.