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  1. #341
    Pandaren Monk chrisberb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobu Oshino View Post
    We have a number od 216,000.

    We do not have a ratio.

    We have a number of 213,000 and a 9/10ths ratio.

    We cannot accurately calculate the national occurrences without that ratio, is that so hard?

    Last time I checked prisons are separated into male and female. I think mentioning both genders covers everyone. You are clearly not understanding what I am trying to say.
    He's saying you're a hypocrite, he doesn't give a shit about the ratio.

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisberb View Post
    He's saying you're a hypocrite, he doesn't give a shit about the ratio.
    So he's OK with a conclusion being drawn from statistics without context being given to the numbers.

    The ratio is the point in which the accusation of hypocrisy comes from when actually all I want is the whole set of numbers to see whether the conclusion is correct or not, I care not about who is the victim more often than the other but the accuracy of the claim.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormtrooperz View Post
    Yeah, the statistics for male to females. Not everyone. Look I gotta go to work, but point is, we've seen people like you in previous threads, trying to hide behind the word, "everyone, " when you clearly only care about one side or another being represented more because you somehow feel that they're important to this topic and debate (news flash, they're not). It's pretty petty though, I'll give you that, if you're into that sort of thing.
    Okay, so Shinobu Oshino actually wrote checkmate at the end of the post... yes that messes with my ability to well... not mock someone and make comparisons to people who claim they have autism, but doesn't... Which is to say, I understand that consternation... I don't get precisely what you're upset with in this context? I'd actually be willing to say that yes, this problem is not gender dependent, because there is an extremely high amount of sexual abuse in women's prisons too. I think it's much more about power structures, when might is right is the rule of law (Threat of physical violence and coercion are how prisons interact with inmates) rape is normal. Rape's about taking control of another person, if you're in a society that is constantly doing that to you, you do it to others to establish power and security (both physically and metaphorically)

    So really, I think this should be an argument about institutions and not gender. That's also true of rape more generally, we shouldn't just scream about how bad it is, we want to stop it, not give it cultural power which entices sadists to use rape as a means of self-actualization.

  4. #344
    Titan Nixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobu Oshino View Post
    So he's OK with a conclusion being drawn from statistics without context being given to the numbers.
    The statistics are a distraction anyways. At best they'll shock some people into caring, but who gets raped the most doesn't matter. As a society, we're not as good as we should be about rape, especially when it happens to men or prisoners. That needs to change and the only conversation worth having is one tied to how to effect the necessary changes.

  5. #345
    Pandaren Monk chrisberb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobu Oshino View Post
    So he's OK with a conclusion being drawn from statistics without context being given to the numbers.
    His whole point is "equality". (incoming made up numbers) If 90% of women are raped, and 10% of men are raped..these two things should garner the same concern equally, because rape is wrong. At least that's the point some people are making.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisberb View Post
    His whole point is "equality". (incoming made up numbers) If 90% of women are raped, and 10% of men are raped..these two things should garner the same concern equally. At least that's the point some people are making.
    Which I have never been against. In fact, I support that line of thinking. All I cared about was the claim that one is more frequent than the other being accurate rather than actual results and the context those bring.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    The statistics are a distraction anyways. At best they'll shock some people into caring, but who gets raped the most doesn't matter. As a society, we're not as good as we should be about rape, especially when it happens to men or prisoners. That needs to change and the only conversation worth having is one tied to how to effect the necessary changes.
    I agree, I just don't want people making false claims.

    Rape is bad, rape should be gender neutral in terms of investigation, punishment, victim support and requirement of evidence. Who in this thread has been against that exactly?
    Last edited by Shinobu Oshino; 2014-06-15 at 03:53 PM.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Azhil View Post
    Well, illegal drugs, unless you harvest/buy ingredients & produce it yourself, hurts others. Who do you think harvest the things needed for it, what conditions do they work under? What does the dealer do, more than providing drugs?
    So basically... by making drugs illegal, we make them black market. By making them black market, we make them criminal. Because drugs are always in high demand, the market does not care if they're legal or illegal. Drug users, specifically, are mostly not addicts and mostly don't hurt anyone directly. I can't site it right now, but I could dig it up if wanted, there's been some cross-analysis studies that concluded roughly 6% of the population suffers from a highly addictive personality. These people turn to drugs, food and certain types of activities which produce similar endorphine rushes. They're biologically predisposed to addiction. Those people aren't most drug users.

    Most drug users are slightly more affluent than average (contrary to popular belief, the poorer you are, typically, the less likely you are to use drugs, at least according to welfare statistics compiled after a few states (looking at you Florida) started mandatory tests for recipients of government funding). They also are not addicts, nor do they get intoxicated in public places.

    Now you can say "Why do you use drugs, it hurts people!" Many people will say: "You're stupid, I grow my own." Or "Yeah, my 70 year old neighbor is really scary! He's gonna' fucking murder me if I'm late paying him back!" Sometimes of course drugs do go through the cartels, and do cause a lot of harm. But those cartels only exist because drugs are black market goods! And more than that... did you stop buying shoes or clothes that use child labor? Probably not. If you did, cool, but I bet you don't know who does and doesn't. Most people don't bother.

    And see that's the point, this is all a stupid fucking tragedy. Human suffering, promoting human suffering. So yeah, you can go to jail for growing a pot plant in your back yard, with a seed you got from Willie Nelson. It's not about right and wrong, it's about dividing and conquering people. Same people who don't want you to ever get high, don't want you to enjoy having sex. They fucking suck.

    People just need to stop being such fucking assholes. Someone doesn't stop being human when they commit a crime, and shit, tons of things are crimes that don't do anything bad to anyone!

  8. #348
    Titan Nixx's Avatar
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    There's not enough information in the articles to say the numbers are false.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    Are there people really, just casually okay with people being raped, just because they are in prison?
    Boggles my mind for anyone to shug and say, "ooo the rapes are happening in prison" unsurprised, then move on. That is a problem. Our prison system isnt made purely for punishment, its for the rehabilitation, and if a person is continually raped in prison, he isnt going to become rehabilitated back into society.
    People just blame the problem on men in general rather than see this as individuals hurting other individuals.

    It's very frustrating especially when you argue with feminists who want to have a monopoly on being rape victims as if they are the only victims.

    No one wants to accept the fact that society created these monsters.
    Last edited by Garian; 2014-06-15 at 08:33 PM.

  10. #350
    so by this, it means that basically 1200 rapes happen...per day....in the US? which is about 24 rapes per state per day.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21 View Post
    so by this, it means that basically 1200 rapes happen...per day....in the US? which is about 24 rapes per state per day.
    You should watch Oz. The leader of the Aryans was practically raping someone every episode.

    Considering how male sexuality generally works I can believe it.

  12. #352
    Stood in the Fire Azhil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    Considering how male sexuality generally works I can believe it.
    Male sexuality doesn't lead to rapes.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Azhil View Post
    Male sexuality doesn't lead to rapes.
    That's not what I meant. Some men can screw anything. They can screw other men without being attracted to them.

  14. #354
    Stood in the Fire Azhil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    That's not what I meant. Some men can screw anything. They can screw other men without being attracted to them.
    "Generally works".

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Azhil View Post
    "Generally works".
    You'd be surprised. There's not much difference between a man's mouth and a woman's mouth.

    Rape is an epidemic in prison.

  16. #356
    Stood in the Fire Azhil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garian View Post
    You'd be surprised. There's not much difference between a man's mouth and a woman's mouth.

    Rape is an epidemic in prison.
    Just because some can do it, it doesn't mean that's how it generally works.

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    I dont see why it matters where they got raped, surely its all bad?
    Women have to fear getting raped in their everyday lives, while men have to fear it when they enter a prison. Yes, it's all bad, but I'm pretty sure most people would agree that having to fear getting raped outside of prison than inside one is worse. A man can avoid getting locked up in prison, a woman can stop going outside in the evening or to clubs, but it will limit her "normal" life.
    You know when people want you to tell them the truth? They lie.

  18. #358
    Stood in the Fire Azhil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exploitbat View Post
    Women have to fear getting raped in their everyday lives, while men have to fear it when they enter a prison. Yes, it's all bad, but I'm pretty sure most people would agree that having to fear getting raped outside of prison than inside one is worse. A man can avoid getting locked up in prison, a woman can stop going outside in the evening or to clubs, but it will limit her "normal" life.
    Getting raped is the last thing I'd worry about if I went to prison.

  19. #359
    How do the prisoners live in the US prisons, generally? I mean; where are they getting raped? How can they avoid the guards? Do they share cells and that's where it happens?
    You know when people want you to tell them the truth? They lie.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Exploitbat View Post
    How do the prisoners live in the US prisons, generally? I mean; where are they getting raped? How can they avoid the guards? Do they share cells and that's where it happens?
    I'm certain a lot of guards don't care if it happens anyways. They see prisoners as animals and don't give a shit if they rape and kill each other because it's less vermin they have to deal with.

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