1. #1

    Is the second wind change going to be huge in PvP?

    I'm just wondering since it was announced that second wind was going to be changed there hasn't been much discussion about it. Isn't it a pretty huge change considering the Warrior will need to stay on the target now to get his health back up rather than perhaps CC then pillar hump for a few seconds? Or being in the huge pressure to put out constant damage to get his health back up?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Remery View Post
    I'm just wondering since it was announced that second wind was going to be changed there hasn't been much discussion about it. Isn't it a pretty huge change considering the Warrior will need to stay on the target now to get his health back up rather than perhaps CC then pillar hump for a few seconds? Or being in the huge pressure to put out constant damage to get his health back up?
    It's been discussed in other threads. The consensus I've seen is that Impending Victory is probably going to be the way to go since it's not reliant on being Enraged to get the full effect of the heal unlike Enraged Regen.

  3. #3
    Passive healing that high is dumb, warriors did fine with the old version for second wind pre-MoP which only procced on stuns/novas for years. You can't compare MoP gameplay to WoD gameplay.

    But from the looks of it Blizzard have had no idea about PvP mechanics since late-Wrath, so criticising these minor class changes really does miss the bigger picture and bigger problems with the development direction.

  4. #4
    As a Warrior main I'm glad second wind was changed. I disliked it ever since I tried it out in early MoP. More passive selfheals should be changed as well, it does good for the game.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    It's been discussed in other threads. The consensus I've seen is that Impending Victory is probably going to be the way to go since it's not reliant on being Enraged to get the full effect of the heal unlike Enraged Regen.
    Oh yes I'm sorry I should've searched that thread before making this. This will definitely add more skill to Warriors, as of right now Second Wind would heal what Impending Victory would in 5 seconds without the 30 second CD, unless I missed something to Impending Victory.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Warrior second wind healing in PVP is really weak. You look at any BG or Arena at the ammount of healing done by the Warrior and it's usually the lowest of all classes by quite a big margin. It's only active when below 35% and while it is active it's massively reduced by battle fatigue. Second Wind is huge when it comes to soloing stuff, but in PVP it's really not a big deal compared to all the survival cooldowns and defensive stance.. They are what make the real difference.

    If you can't kill a Warrior when he's already sub 35% and relying on that little heal to stay alive then you probably don't deserve the kill. Doesn't really bother me that it's being changed, but some form of consistent self-healing is a good thing. Soloing content has become a big attraction in the game now and Blizzard recognise that.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2014-06-15 at 10:52 PM.
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  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Anium's Avatar
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    It's a nerferino! For sure.
    We're going to work around it. More face aggro. But as people said, less healing is good.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome Ashtwo's Avatar
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    I think both Enraged Regeneration and Second Wind with their new designs are massive design flaws because;

    - Enraged regeneration only does 50% of it's intentional healing, you can't enrage yourself on demand with Berserker so you're relying on MS critting right before you use Enraged Regeneration which isn't going to be reliable at all. For Fury it's not quite as bad but in all honesty very few people play Fury PvP at anything passed derping about in Battlegrounds or RBG cheese-cleave tactics.

    - Second Wind requires you to do damage. There were hundreds of posts on the WoW-EU forums that Warriors could go full defensive whilst still being offensive (Defensive stance + Die by The Sword + Shield Wall without needing a shield) yet now, instead of "kiting or hiding" as it was put, we HAVE to keep hitting something to get any healing whatsoever. So what if we can't get to the target and we start dying? Well too bad, that mage kiting you 30 yards away isn't going to go into melee range so you can hit him




    I think Second Wind was fine as it was this expansion, it was only really a problem in 1v1 and occasionally 2v2, a Soulburn application of Agony/UA/Corruption at 550 out damages Second Wind until you go Defensive Stance.

  9. #9
    RIP Second wind

  10. #10
    The Patient AndreiBD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Givemount View Post
    As a Warrior main I'm glad second wind was changed. I disliked it ever since I tried it out in early MoP. More passive selfheals should be changed as well, it does good for the game.
    Rofl ! how can you say you dislike second wind as it is?!? it bet my salary you use it in pvp . Melle range heals means death you fools

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtwo View Post
    I think both Enraged Regeneration and Second Wind with their new designs are massive design flaws because;

    - Enraged regeneration only does 50% of it's intentional healing, you can't enrage yourself on demand with Berserker so you're relying on MS critting right before you use Enraged Regeneration which isn't going to be reliable at all. For Fury it's not quite as bad but in all honesty very few people play Fury PvP at anything passed derping about in Battlegrounds or RBG cheese-cleave tactics.

    - Second Wind requires you to do damage. There were hundreds of posts on the WoW-EU forums that Warriors could go full defensive whilst still being offensive (Defensive stance + Die by The Sword + Shield Wall without needing a shield) yet now, instead of "kiting or hiding" as it was put, we HAVE to keep hitting something to get any healing whatsoever. So what if we can't get to the target and we start dying? Well too bad, that mage kiting you 30 yards away isn't going to go into melee range so you can hit him




    I think Second Wind was fine as it was this expansion, it was only really a problem in 1v1 and occasionally 2v2, a Soulburn application of Agony/UA/Corruption at 550 out damages Second Wind until you go Defensive Stance.
    Now that the notes show Enraged regen giving all of its heal at all times instead of just when enraged, do you think it would be viable in pvp?

  12. #12
    The buff to health pools in WoD would have been a huge buff to second wind, something had to be changed.
    I don't think this matters nearly as much as you think it does.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome Ashtwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoefschildpad View Post
    The buff to health pools in WoD would have been a huge buff to second wind, something had to be changed.
    Second Wind was a % heal, it would make no real difference? It's heal didn't increase in speed nor size outside of MS/BF/Necrotic.

    Quote Originally Posted by demonraiser View Post
    Now that the notes show Enraged regen giving all of its heal at all times instead of just when enraged, do you think it would be viable in pvp?

    I can't say for sure, but in my opinion Enraged Regeneration is going to be the "go to" talent if you're playing versus anything that isn't melee cleave. Now that we no longer have Deep Wounds we literally have 0 range capabilities outside of a 6 second 'heroic' throw which almost definitely won't be enough to compete with a range players burst.
    I'd love for Enraged Regeneration to be usable whilst stunned, that would be the tipping point for me to use it all the time. If someone could theory craft whether a full Enraged Regeneration heal is greater than Second Wind leaching Bladestorm on 2 targets we'd know for sure which was better (although if I'm honest you probably won't be using Bladestorm so the point is kinda moot).

  14. #14
    Pandaren Monk Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtwo View Post
    I'd love for Enraged Regeneration to be usable whilst stunned, that would be the tipping point for me to use it all the time. If someone could theory craft whether a full Enraged Regeneration heal is greater than Second Wind leaching Bladestorm on 2 targets we'd know for sure which was better (although if I'm honest you probably won't be using Bladestorm so the point is kinda moot).
    Hard to say because Second Wind is based on your damage while ER is based on your health. We don't know either of those numbers yet.

    I'm very iffy on Second Wind also. If they want to leave in a leech, cool (I always loved the concept of life leech, even if not the practice); but it needs to be better. I posted as much on my Alpha feedback post, even in PvE vs mobs out in the world Second Wind was completely useless and underwhelming (and they didn't have burst cds, healing debuffs, etc).
    I might like the idea of Second Wind (stronger) on a (short) cooldown instead of simply active sub 35%. Most players start trying to lock you down, stunning and putting on their burst macros when your health gets low anyways.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome Ashtwo's Avatar
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    You're essentially comparing 10% instantly + 2% per second for 5 seconds to 10% of the damage you can put out. If using numbers from level 90 it's hard to believe Second Winds leach will be enough...

    600k Health Pool
    60k is 10%, so Enraged Regeneration heals 60k instantly and 12k every second for 5 seconds.

    For Second Wind to do that you'd need to hit for ... well 600k and then 120k once every second after. But then you've gotta take into account that it only heals you when you're below 35% so... Yeah I dunno, if the heal was increased dramatically but was actually activated it would be fine. But currently (unless I'm reading old patch notes and it's 20% instead of 10% leach... which I may be confusing with Rallying Cry) I doubt Second Wind will be very useful.

  16. #16
    High Overlord Pulsar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dnusha View Post
    RIP Second wind
    This pretty much sums up not only this talent but out entire Tier 30 talents. Has any other class taken a blow to their survivability? I haven't been reading up on other classes much.

    But yeah Warrior self healing is going to be terrible and make us realiant on a Healer alot.

  17. #17
    So you are saying that there is actually going to be a chance that I can kill a warrior through 2nd wind on my affliction lock? Sounds like a good change to me, but my opinion may be a little biased now since I've been on the warrior receiving end instead of the giving it end lately.

  18. #18
    High Overlord Pulsar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nopkplease View Post
    So you are saying that there is actually going to be a chance that I can kill a warrior through 2nd wind on my affliction lock? Sounds like a good change to me, but my opinion may be a little biased now since I've been on the warrior receiving end instead of the giving it end lately.
    It seems like you think balance is based around duels. It's not.

  19. #19
    Mechagnome Ashtwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nopkplease View Post
    So you are saying that there is actually going to be a chance that I can kill a warrior through 2nd wind on my affliction lock? Sounds like a good change to me, but my opinion may be a little biased now since I've been on the warrior receiving end instead of the giving it end lately.
    You can easily out damage Second Wind at 550 ilvl, if you capture trinkets in the SB:SS it's gameover, warrior can't do anything unless he has defensive CDs.

  20. #20
    Banned Korgoth's Avatar
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    Im amazed anyone thinks its remotely good right now. So nerfed by healing debuffs to not even out heal dots.

    In fact unless any of those bypass healing debuffs, they will all suck.

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