The Bard will be the next class in WoW. Here's why...

[Thimagryn]

Neither Windwalker or Mistweaver is surprising if you understand the Monk archetype. A class based on such an archetype would have a DPS component, a Tanking component, and a healing component. Even my completely unrelated WoW Monk class concept that existed before MoP was even announced had those three specs.

You skip over the fact that they're using all new themes unseen in Warcraft. Wasn't your original point that they had to be based on Warcraft 3? If that were true, where did Mistweaving come from, and why is it acceptable where any new type of 'Water' based magic is not?

Also we've known of Pandaria since WC3, and we knew it was surrounded by mists and mystery since WC3.

Nice try. The Mists were introduced specifically from Mists of Pandaria. They didn't exist before that.

A Hunter is not a spellcaster.

Neither is a Bard.

[Verain]

Next class is Demon Hunter. Other games will have Bards, but never WoW.

[Zyrinx]

EQ bards were extremely interesting and very challenging to play.

I really like this idea. Maybe they could use a snare/kite/slow(attacks)/mezmerize type of combat archetype. And another Mail class makes all the sense in the world.

I do agree that a pure support role wont fit in WoW with the trinity setup, though.

[BedlamBros]

Next class is Demon Hunter. Other games will have Bards, but never WoW.

I disagree. I highly doubt Blizzard is going to bring in a class with the same name as an existing class.

It also doesn't really help the cause that it would play like a Rogue with demonic powers, and that it would be yet another melee class on top of the two melee classes we got with WotLK and MoP. Haven't we had enough melee expansion classes?

[Teriz]

Why the Bard is more likely than the Tinker

The Tinker, if it became a class, would be highly reliant on technological/magitech creations and various elixirs (if the Alchemist archetype was added, as it was in Guild Wars 2). In my opinion, this would be too close to the in-game professions of Engineering and Alchemy. I really don't see a way this class and profession(s) could coexist. Would Tinkers be forced to take Engineering and Alchemy as professions? Why couldn't someone with those professions have access to a large amount of Tinker spells? Blizz could retcon it as a Tinker having far greater knowledge than Engineers/Alchemists, but surely someone with 600+ points in the professions knows more than low level Tinker.

That's like saying someone with an advanced degree in engineering is better at engineering than Tony Stark or Victor Von Doom. It doesn't matter how much you've studied, Iron Man is still going to be better at engineering than you are because he has a superhuman intellect.

WoW classes are the equivalent of super heroes. Not every Troll can be a highly skilled Druid. Not every Human can be a highly skilled Mage. Not every Orc is going to be a powerful Shaman. Only the exceptional become that. The rest become grunts, peons, peasants, and farmers. Which is why there's numerous occasions where a platoon of footman are being held off by a bunch of Kobolds and you walk up and bash their heads in, turning the tide of the conflict all by yourself. Why? Because you're exceptional, and you're a hero.

The Tinker class would be made up of exceptional inventors, creating things far beyond the scope of conventional/common engineering. Just like Iron Man.

[Trubo]

Bit unrelated to the OP but the title just made me remember I've never played A Bard's Tale. Guess I have something to do in-between raid nights now.

[Teriz]

While I agree that engineering and Tinkers don't have to be overlapping with one another, the CREATION of the tools is what makes it tough to differentiate between. That's what creates the problem of "Why can't my engineer become a tinker" or "Why aren't all tinkers engineers?"

Personally, I think a Tinker class is more about the use of technology, not so much building it. Building it is the realm of Engineering. Using it is the realm of a class. Similar to a Warrior and a Blacksmith; A blacksmith can make a damned good sword, but that doesn't mean he's able to use it efficiently. A Warrior can use a sword efficiently, but that doesn't mean he can make them himself.

Whereas an Engineer would build the tools, a Tinker would use said tools in a battle-related manner.

Well in the end, I don't think any of that really matters to Blizzard. You can write a sentence to explain why a technology class can build a device and why the technology profession can't. It's really all about the gameplay, and a technology class would provide gameplay that is currently absent in existing classes.

[hrugner]

Bit unrelated to the OP but the title just made me remember I've never played A Bard's Tale. Guess I have something to do in-between raid nights now.

That's more on topic than most of this stuff. A Bard's Tale is pretty fun, as are the old games that it's named for.

[Ielenia]

We have this argument every time you come around. Player characters do not interact with lore at all. Nothing that happens to the player can be considered an accurate representation of the lore. The proof, coincidentally, also lies in the Black Harvest quest chain. None of those Black Harvest members were there for the deaths of any of the characters we claim to have killed, yet they are all traumatized in some way or another from having been there.

Can you name one famous shaman from Warcraft 3, other than Thrall? Can you name one famous warrior other than Grom Hellscream? Can you name a famous druid other than Malfurion? A death knight other than Arthas? All from Warcraft 3, of course.

So when logic is your only reason, it works. But when logic is my only reason, it doesn't. Just trying to lay out the ground rules here, seeing as you have no quote saying he specifically did not kill the Night Elf only for the fact he was not a member of the Alliance, yet you claim it must be true.

Here's the facts we know from what the Quest NPC tells us:
1) She knows he is a Demon Hunter;
2) She thought, at first, the Demon Hunter was part of the Alliance;
3) She tells us she normally kills Alliance members on sight;
4) She finds out the Demon Hunter is not Alliance;
5) She lets the Demon Hunter live.
All taken from this quest's text.

With all that, there is no shadow of a doubt that the reason she didn't kill the Night Elf Demon Hunter, a.k.a. Loramus Thalipedes, was because he was not part of the Alliance.

No known good has ever come from a Demon Hunter with the exception of Illidan saving Tyrande, which he immediately turned around and became a demon only hours later.

On that same token, no known evil has ever come from a Demon Hunter with the exception of Illidan betraying the Night Elves back in the War of the Ancients.

Neither do you. You do not know that Demon Hunters will ever be here.

Demon Hunter already are here, around the world. Or did you somehow manage to miss the Demon Hunter NPCs on Azeroth.

Every argument you have against me on this point will come back at you. There is nothing you can say that will change that.

I don't know. All I see being thrown at me is faulty logic.

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That's like saying someone with an advanced degree in engineering is better at engineering than Tony Stark or Victor Von Doom. It doesn't matter how much you've studied, Iron Man is still going to be better at engineering than you are because he has a superhuman intellect.

Except you'll never be Iron Man or Dr. Doom. Those are the Raid-Boss-Level NPCs you'll never beat without a big, big group. Iron Man and Dr. Doom are the Varians, Vol'jins, Thralls, Baines and Jainas of WoW. Those are the NPCs which level you'll never be able to reach, in-game. Your comparison is faulty, at best.

[Teriz]

Except you'll never be Iron Man or Dr. Doom. Those are the Raid-Boss-Level NPCs you'll never beat without a big, big group. Iron Man and Dr. Doom are the Varians, Vol'jins, Thralls, Baines and Jainas of WoW. Those are the NPCs which level you'll never be able to reach, in-game. Your comparison is faulty, at best.

The raid-level bosses are typical super villains. Super villains are supposed to be more powerful than the heroes. Its like Magneto and the X-Men. Individually, the X-Men would get destroyed by Magneto, but when working as a team, they're able to defeat him. Just like our characters do in raids.

Its pretty obvious that our characters are a lot more powerful than your typical footman or defias thug.

Varians, Vol'jins, Thralls, etc. are simply higher level versions of our character classes. Hence why their levels are ?? as opposed to numbers.

[Thimagryn]

That doesn't make sense whatsoever. If you pick up and use a weapon, it's because you know how to use a weapon. If you see someone else using said weapon in a better way, you would use that way.

So Monks use Staves the exact same way a Feral Druid would? The same way a Mage would?

Avoiding gameplay connotations, the Monk has a particular style that makes them distinct. You could imagine them twirling their staves and parrying attacks the same way Chen does in the opening cinematic. When you look at any other class that wields a Staff in melee combat, they're not going to be using Martial Arts moves. Does this not make sense?

For Demon Hunter to use the 'correct way' and no one else to even consider using them the correct way would be ridiculous. It'd be exactly like a Demon Hunter spinning with Fist weapons. It grants no benefit, and in truth actually leaves the Demon Hunter MORE open to attacks and LESS able to strike the opponent.

Characters already have attacks that spin in place, such as Bladestorm or Spinning Crane Kick. It's a representation of actual moves in a game setting. If you're getting that literal, then you have more problems to deal with than game mechanics.

And how does spinning with a Fist weapon leave them open to attack?. Even fighting games have adapted spinning fist attacks. Just look at Zangief or Tung Fu Rue.

But I guess that's not real enough for you? The Spinning Backfist is a real martial arts move.

You still claim it's a new fighting style. It's not. It's using Warglaives the way they're meant to be used.

I'm making the point that a NEW CLASS could get NEW animations, which would rectify the very problems you bring up. It is not a necessary shift any more than giving Warlocks Green Fire to differentiate them from Mages, or Death Knights having Pale skin to differentiate themselves from every other class.

I'm not claiming a new fighting style. I'm saying there is precedent for there to be new animations to represent a fighting style that makes this class unique; the lack of which was your point against the Demon Hunter. This is a direct suggestion to your initial statement that Demon Hunters have nothing to separate themselves from existing classes. Again, I said the Relic thing was just another example, and if not that then there could be custom blindfolds or tattooes that characters get along with being the only class that remains barechested. There's numerous ways to approach it, none of which are limited to new animations or accessories.

[Ielenia]

The raid-level bosses are typical super villains. Super villains are supposed to be more powerful than the heroes. Its like Magneto and the X-Men. Individually, the X-Men would get destroyed by Magneto, but when working as a team, they're able to defeat him. Just like our characters do in raids.

Its pretty obvious that our characters are a lot more powerful than your typical footman or defias thug.

Varians, Vol'jins, Thralls, etc. are simply higher level versions of our character classes. Hence why their levels are ?? as opposed to numbers.

Except we play on a game with two opposing factions, so our 'faction's main heroes' are the opposing team's main villains, so in the end, it's all the same. Varian is a raid-boss-level NPC for the Horde, just as Baine is a Raid-Boss-Level NPC for the Alliance. In other words, all that I said in my previous post still stands.

[Teriz]

Except we play on a game with two opposing factions, so our 'faction's main heroes' are the opposing team's main villains, so in the end, it's all the same. Varian is a raid-boss-level NPC for the Horde, just as Baine is a Raid-Boss-Level NPC for the Alliance. In other words, all that I said in my previous post still stands.

It doesn't stand because again our characters are way more powerful than the standard citizen of Stormwind or Orgrimmar. Your post above is irrelevant.

[Florena]

Actually, the Healing Celestial is the Red Crane. I always scratched my head why the Mistweaver has a Jade Dragon statue when it's the Red Crane who's about healing.

I think I read somewhere that originally it was going to be crane stance for healing, but they decided green looked better than red for healing graphics and swapped them, despite in most places chi ji bealing the healer and yu lon spell dps.

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The more I think about it though, the more they really could invent something new. Monks never really had much lore. Sure, there was the brewmaster, but the BM unit wasn't really a martial artist and closer to shaman in terms of spells. The windwalker and mistweaver spells were completely original and no bearing on any wc 3 spells and units. So it's very possible they could take it a step further and make a unique class that fits a later expansion's theme and lore. Sure there were monks in vanilla/bc, but the style and lore of our monk class wasn't really introduced until MoP.

[Teriz]

The more I think about it though, the more they really could invent something new. Monks never really had much lore. Sure, there was the brewmaster, but the BM unit wasn't really a martial artist and closer to shaman in terms of spells. The windwalker and mistweaver spells were completely original and no bearing on any wc 3 spells and units. So it's very possible they could take it a step further and make a unique class that fits a later expansion's theme and lore. Sure there were monks in vanilla/bc, but the style and lore of our monk class wasn't really introduced until MoP.

Actually, martial arts were always associated with the Brewmaster, and Pandaren in general. Pandaria itself is based on China. Pandas are Chinese animals. Chen is a chinese derived name. There is a history of Drunken fighting in Chinese martial arts.



That is a martial artist. So it was obvious that if they created a class based on the Pandaren Brewmaster, it would be martial arts based.

As for the spells being original, SEF came from WC3. The brews that all three specs use come from WC3. The fact that the entire class is Pandaren-based comes from WC3. The Monk class isn't an original idea, its an expanded concept that like all WoW classes has its roots in WC3.

[Thimagryn]

The more I think about it though, the more they really could invent something new. Monks never really had much lore. Sure, there was the brewmaster, but the BM unit wasn't really a martial artist and closer to shaman in terms of spells. The windwalker and mistweaver spells were completely original and no bearing on any wc 3 spells and units. So it's very possible they could take it a step further and make a unique class that fits a later expansion's theme and lore. Sure there were monks in vanilla/bc, but the style and lore of our monk class wasn't really introduced until MoP.

That's the exact reason why I believe Blizzard could potentially take any concept and make it real. It all depends on what expansion we're getting, and how that class would fit in to both the expansion and into the current pantheon of heroes.

At this point though, I feel that the Dark Below could be a leaked hint at what could be up ahead. A Legion expansion is inevitable, but the 'Dark Below' would tie in to Azshara and the South Seas. The end of SoO has already hinted that the Horde is interested in reclaiming the Goblin homeland as well.

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That is a martial artist. So it was obvious that if they created a class based on the Pandaren Brewmaster, it would be martial arts based.

Still doesn't explain away Mistweaving, which is a concept that borders Shaman Water Healing. You always fall back on 'It's Martial Arts' when it isn't at all. It's manipulating water to heal, which is exactly what Shamans and Druids have been doing.

Why is it that any time new types of magic are brought up, you would instantly call 'Overlap' when this is a clear case of overlap that came from a new class with no previous explanation from Warcraft?

[Teriz]

Still doesn't explain away Mistweaving, which is a concept that borders Shaman Water Healing. You always fall back on 'It's Martial Arts' when it isn't at all. It's manipulating water to heal, which is exactly what Shamans and Druids have been doing.

Why is it that any time new types of magic are brought up, you would instantly call 'Overlap' when this is a clear case of overlap that came from a new class with no previous explanation from Warcraft?

Because martial arts, teas, clouds, and mists isn't the same as totems, Waves, Riptides, and Tidal forces.

[Thimagryn]

Because martial arts, teas, clouds, and mists isn't the same as totems, Waves, Riptides, and Tidal forces.

Yet you think Old God magic, Singing and Dragons are the same as existing character spells. Do you happen to have a selective memory?

[Ielenia]

It doesn't stand because again our characters are way more powerful than the standard citizen of Stormwind or Orgrimmar. Your post above is irrelevant.

Your comparison is irrelevant. If you want to compare our characters to Marvel and DC, we're the heroes that sometimes work with the Justice League or the Avengers, but aren't part of them. We're the heroes that have their '15 minutes of fame', then fade out. We are not the Captain Americas, Iron Men, Dr. Dooms, Mandarins, etc. We're not. Faction leaders and Raid Bosses are those kind of NPCs. We are not.

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Actually, martial arts were always associated with the Brewmaster

Wrong, baseless, false information is wrong, baseless and false.

[img]http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050415012304/wowwiki/images/3/32/Pandaren.jpg[img]
That is a martial artist.

No, that is just a pandaren in chinese clothing holding a barrel and a staff. There is nothing martial-artist-y about him at all, other than "hey, he has 'China' written all over him, let's tackle 'martial arts' on top of him because, hey, China!".

The Brewmaster did not become a martial artist monk until Mists of Pandaria came along.

[Teriz]

Yet you think Old God magic, Singing and Dragons are the same as existing character spells. Do you happen to have a selective memory?

Because Dragon-based and Old God-based spells are already present in existing classes.

Also I didn't say a Bard's singing would be the same as existing spells, I said a Bard performing an AoE Fear via singing would be just like existing character spells.

However, its important to note that Bards are so alien to Warcraft that there wasn't even a Bard class in the WoW RPG.

In short, WoW will never have a Bard class. It simply doesn't fit the universe, or WoW's class structure.