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  1. #761
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    This sums up your entire argument.
    My argument is that every class in WoW has its roots in the RTS. The Monk is no different. Your statement that we don't need examples of something existing in the game, and then using the Monk as an example is nonsense. The core of the class comes directly from the Brewmaster RTS. There were non-Pandaren Monks in WoW long before MoP. There were Monk-like classes in the WoW RPG, including the Brewmaster. A Monk themed class in WoW was pretty much a no-brainer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You post your opinion as fact. That is wrong. The WC3 Brewmaster was not a martial artist or a monk or anything. He was just a drunk Pandaren. I wish peopl would just stop assuming the WC3 Brewmaster was always a monk just because MoP introduced the monk class with a spec called 'Brewmaster'. Need a remind you that there were no mention of monks at all for the Pandaren originally?
    http://i.imgur.com/pwH00l.jpg
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KFj7MzwUXW4/Ttzr2-5TGkI/AAAAAAAAAJk/_6Y9EvcOWVQ/s1600/f1250336752.jpg
    http://dotawallpaper.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Mangix-Pandaren-Brewmaster-dota-wallpaper-4.jpg
    http://dotawallpaper.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Mangix-Pandaren-Brewmaster-dota-wallpaper-3.jpg

    People have been assuming the Brewmaster has been a Monk for a very long time.

    That includes Blizzard, since they made it the basis of the Monk class.

  2. #762
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    My argument is that every class in WoW has its roots in the RTS. The Monk is no different. Your statement that we don't need examples of something existing in the game, and then using the Monk as an example is nonsense. The core of the class comes directly from the Brewmaster RTS. There were non-Pandaren Monks in WoW long before MoP. There were Monk-like classes in the WoW RPG, including the Brewmaster. A Monk themed class in WoW was pretty much a no-brainer.
    I brought up the point that Monks brought new spells and themes to the table and you answered by saying "That's ridiculous. They have a Brewmaster spec".

    So really you didn't have a point. You ignored what I said, then decided to insert a blanket statement that doesn't address what I originally said.

    There were Monk-like classes in the WoW RPG, including the Brewmaster
    The Brewmaster class in the WoW RPG was not a true Monk. They were the War3 Brewmaster's mechanics taken into RPG form, and focused on being drunk. The closest you could get was a Runemaster, and they didn't have any Martial Arts or Eastern themes at all. If we had a Runemaster class in WoW, it would have some pretty obvious overlap with Death Knights and Shamans where the Monk class would not.

    All in all, you really don't have any points on what it requires to be a new class. Your points only indicate that we could never have gotten the Monk or Death Knight class.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2014-06-23 at 04:34 AM.

  3. #763
    *sigh...*
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    http://i.imgur.com/pwH00l.jpg
    Fan artwork. Not canon. Also: not monks, just the 3 spirits the Pandaren Brewmaster splits into when he uses his ultimate: a spellcaster and two warriors, one carrying two swords, and one carrying a rock. Nothing 'monk' on them.

    Fan artwork. Not canon. Also: it's either three geomancers (air, fire and earth) Notice the stone arms on the Pandaren in the middle.

    Fan artwork. Not canon.

    People have been assuming the Brewmaster has been a Monk for a very long time.
    Get it in you head, Teriz: fan artwork is not canon. So stop posting them as evidence to your theories.

    That includes Blizzard, since they made it the basis of the Monk class.
    Blizzard 'upgraded' the WC3 Pandaren Brewmaster into a monk over ten years after Warcraft 3.

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  4. #764
    I think it more likely for blizz to expand on more 4th specs for current classes.

    Tank shamans using agi mail.
    Melee hunters instead of demon hunters.

    This kind of thing. In fact, I'd rather see expanding on current classes rather than introduction of new ones.

  5. #765
    I don't see a bard class happening in WoW, it simply doesn't fit the WoW universe.

    Now that I think of it, I don't think I've ever even seen a bard-like NPC in WoW, unlike DKs and Monks before they were added to the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by steristumpie View Post
    Melee hunters instead of demon hunters.
    Except hunters have nothing in common with demon hunters, besides there being "hunter" in their names. If it were to be anyones 4th spec it would probably go to warlocks, since demonology has quite a few demon hunter abilities already.

    Either way, I don't think 4 specs will ever happen either, since that would bring over 3 times as much specs than a new class would to the game that need to be balanced.
    Last edited by Ziktus; 2014-06-23 at 07:45 AM.

  6. #766

  7. #767
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Well, there you go, that's that. Between her and that dwarven fiddler we have enough to work with.
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  8. #768
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    *sigh...*

    Fan artwork. Not canon. Also: not monks, just the 3 spirits the Pandaren Brewmaster splits into when he uses his ultimate: a spellcaster and two warriors, one carrying two swords, and one carrying a rock. Nothing 'monk' on them.
    Yes, all martial arts themed.

    And btw, artwork by Samwise Didier isn't fan art. That's official Blizzard artwork.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    I brought up the point that Monks brought new spells and themes to the table and you answered by saying "That's ridiculous. They have a Brewmaster spec".

    So really you didn't have a point. You ignored what I said, then decided to insert a blanket statement that doesn't address what I originally said.
    Mistweaver had the same theme as the Brewmaster; Martial Arts and empowerment through brew.

    The Brewmaster class in the WoW RPG was not a true Monk. They were the War3 Brewmaster's mechanics taken into RPG form, and focused on being drunk. The closest you could get was a Runemaster, and they didn't have any Martial Arts or Eastern themes at all. If we had a Runemaster class in WoW, it would have some pretty obvious overlap with Death Knights and Shamans where the Monk class would not.
    Pandaren brewmasters travel the world for new and exotic ingredients and recipes. These affable yet deadly warriors practice a unique combination of healing arts and martial skill. With their knowledge of alchemy, potion making and brewery, pandaren create superb ales and liquors that are welcome at any adventurer’s table either before or after a battle. Brewmasters practice a unique fighting style. They combine typical pandaren finesse and strength with the appearance of being drunk, stumbling apparently at random. When they sway to avoid a blow or swing a wild fist, their proficiency appears accidental.


    http://www.wowwiki.com/Brewmaster

    But yes, let's keep ignoring facts...

    All in all, you really don't have any points on what it requires to be a new class. Your points only indicate that we could never have gotten the Monk or Death Knight class.
    Death knights brought in the undead theme, had no abilities in WoW class lineup from their WC3 hero unit, and were part of a large theme in the Warcraft universe that wasn't addressed by a class. No class could utilize their theme.

    Monks brought in the martial arts theme, had no abilities in WoW class lineup from their WC3 hero unit, and were part of a large theme in the Warcraft universe that wasn't addressed by a class. No class could utilize their theme.

    Its simple really.

  9. #769
    How are bards supposed to go around the world solo? Every class to date has a dps spec, what would the Bard have?

    Nah, I don't there's a new class coming out ever again. Race yes, Bard no.

    There's way to much Balancing that will have to be done with Bard. It's a totally new concept. I'm sorry, who wants to play a musician in a world with Necromantic Warriors, stealthing assassins and spell flinging sorcerors?

    There's way cooler Class Concepts out there like Dragon Knight or Titanborn imo.

  10. #770
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yes, all martial arts themed.
    Do tell how a Pandaren wearing a blue robe and a chinese straw hat wielding lightning magic is 'martial arts themed' and not simply 'oriental themed'.
    Do tell how a Pandaren wearing a green robe and carrying a big boulder is 'martial arts themed'.
    Do tell how a Pandaren wielding two swords of fire is 'martial arts themed'. Does that mean all Pandaren warriors are oriental martial artists?

    Mistweaver had the same theme as the Brewmaster; Martial Arts and empowerment through brew.
    Except 'Mistweaver' isn't exactly about martial arts but actually manipulation of the magical mists to heal, is it not?

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Brewmaster
    But yes, let's keep ignoring facts...
    Yeah. Knowing martial arts does not make one a monk. Nice generalization there. They just use, as you pointed out in bold, "typical pandaren finesse and strength with the appearance of being drunk". None, where you quoted, says they are monks. The Brewmasters in the WoW RPG are just that: Brewmasters. They are brewers, first and foremost. They can fight just because they are a player class, and so they need to know how to fight.
    EDIT: Oh, and 'martial skill' also applies to the knowledge of common weapons, as well. Warriors are martial fighters. It does not apply solely to oriental, unarmed martial arts.

    Death knights brought in the undead theme, had no abilities in WoW class lineup from their WC3 hero unit, and were part of a large theme in the Warcraft universe that wasn't addressed by a class. No class could utilize their theme.
    Except, as proven already, with plenty of evidence, Shadow Priests and Warlocks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jabulaniman View Post
    How are bards supposed to go around the world solo? Every class to date has a dps spec, what would the Bard have?
    Bards in RPGs usually tend to be fairly good swashbucklers. The DnD Bard, for example, tends to be a pretty fair sword-fighter, with a bit of spellcasting to help his survivability.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2014-06-23 at 03:18 PM.

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  11. #771
    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    Well, there you go, that's that. Between her and that dwarven fiddler we have enough to work with.
    We would need more than a picture of someone playing a harp to prove they're accomplishing anything with said harp. I mean, there's an entire band in each of the Pandaria Shrines, but they're not using that music to hurt people.

    The Dwarven Fiddler remains the only bard in game, as he's the only one who uses his music to do anything combat related. The others, including the screenshot as she doesn't appear to be in combat, are just playing music.

    Except, as proven already, with plenty of evidence, Shadow Priests and Warlocks.
    Paladins also raise the dead then. Guess Paladins embody undead because they have a rez, just like Priests. /sarcasm

    Warlocks have owned Soul-based magic since their inception. Hell, Death Knights don't even have soul-based magic despite being the embodiment of necromancy. That's the thing with WoW classes; They can cover parts of a theme without ever fully engulfing the entire theme.

    Warlocks cover soul-based magic without raising the dead. (Soulstone and Haunt; Soulstone binds a soul to a stone so that it can return to it's body after death; Haunt infects a target with a ghostly soul.) Death Knights cover disease and undeath without touching souls or minds. (Frost Fever, Blood Plague, Raise Dead/Ally; Frost Fever and Blood Plague cover disease, Raise Dead covers undeath, Raise Ally is a combat rez for game mechanics.) Shadow Priests have a single disease. (Devouring Plague; A remnant, or perhaps a skill taught BY the Forsaken when they were still believed to only be Shadow Priests)

    None cover the theme of Necromancy, but all cover their own respective themes. Warlocks with Demon magic (which used to require souls to accomplish, giving the Soul magic expertise to Warlocks.), Death Knights with Undead, and Shadow Priests with Mind-based attacks.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2014-06-23 at 05:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If a building's about to collapse, you can debate whether it's better to demolish it or repair it, and you can make political-agenda arguments either way. Disputing gravity itself to claim it won't fall down is not a political position, it's just ignorance.

  12. #772
    Really bards... Not going to happen.
    What is more likely to see in the future is 4th specs for every class but Druids as they already have 4 specs.
    By doing this they open the ability to make more tank/heal able people.

    .... I can hear the Druid qq now WHY don't we get a 5th spec....

  13. #773
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    We would need more than a picture of someone playing a harp to prove they're accomplishing anything with said harp. I mean, there's an entire band in each of the Pandaria Shrines, but they're not using that music to hurt people.
    There are people who sing music, and there are music that hurt or buff people. That alone is proof of concept enough that a bard-like class is possible in WoW

    Warlocks have owned Soul-based magic since their inception.
    which is part of the necromantic magic type
    Hell, Death Knights don't even have soul-based magic despite being the embodiment of necromancy. That's the thing with WoW classes; They can cover parts of a theme without ever fully engulfing the entire theme.
    And that is one of the things Teriz won't accept. In his opinion, if a class deals with demons, there can be absolutely no other classes that deal with demons, despite we having two classes that deal heavily in the Light. (priests and paladins)

    Warlocks cover soul-based magic without raising the dead. (Soulstone and Haunt; Soulstone binds a soul to a stone so that it can return to it's body after death; Haunt infects a target with a ghostly soul.)
    Those two, just the way you described, prove they are necromantic spells.

    Death Knights cover disease and undeath without touching souls or minds. (Frost Fever, Blood Plague, Raise Dead/Ally; Frost Fever and Blood Plague cover disease, Raise Dead covers undeath, Raise Ally is a combat rez for game mechanics.)
    Not quite...

    Shadow Priests have a single disease. (Devouring Plague; A remnant, or perhaps a skill taught BY the Forsaken when they were still believed to only be Shadow Priests)
    Being a 'remnant' means nothing. Many spells were removed over time. That one stayed, therefore it's part of the Priest's canon arsenal.

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  14. #774
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Mistweaver had the same theme as the Brewmaster; Martial Arts and empowerment through brew.
    Let's get things straight. I never said the Monk was a completely new invention, I said it brought new themes we have never seen to Warcraft, such as Mistweaving and Chi. So let's address what you've been saying.

    Brewmasters practice a unique fighting style. They combine typical pandaren finesse and strength with the appearance of being drunk, stumbling apparently at random. When they sway to avoid a blow or swing a wild fist, their proficiency appears accidental.
    This description ignores everything a Mistweaver does. This is a description of Brewmaster gameplay, not Mistweavers. Mistweaving utilizes Mists and Chi to heal. That would be a completely new theme brought to Warcraft. So who is the one ignoring facts here?

    Even Shadow Spec for Priests has little relation to their main theme of using Holy magic and Healing. The idea is that they use Shadow because they balance Light and Dark, a concept which could not have been anticipated simply by basing it on existing knowledge. It is not derived from any source in Warcraft 3, since even Forest Troll Shadow Priests used Holy magic. The use of Shadow magic that had no ties to Necromancy, Demonology or Old Gods would have been a new concept brought to WoW.

    Which proves my point - New concepts would be brought forth for any playable class concept. This includes Demon Hunters and Bards. There is no reason why any class concept should be scrutinized for not having an existing NPC parallel to be based off of, or because they're too narrow and would have immediate overlap with any existing class.

    Most of the discussion on new classes has been narrowly focused on one aspect, which would be no different than focusing on Paladin/Priest while ignoring Protection and Shadow Specs. Of course you could make a strong argument that Demon Hunters and Warlocks are too similar, you would be ignoring the obvious differences between the two in the process. Nothing exists to clearly define the Demon Hunter separately from Warlocks, yet.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2014-06-23 at 05:44 PM.

  15. #775
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    We would need more than a picture of someone playing a harp to prove they're accomplishing anything with said harp. I mean, there's an entire band in each of the Pandaria Shrines, but they're not using that music to hurt people.

    The Dwarven Fiddler remains the only bard in game, as he's the only one who uses his music to do anything combat related. The others, including the screenshot as she doesn't appear to be in combat, are just playing music.
    If you feel that the game needs to have an entirely fleshed out bard character for them to ever appear in game, then there's no way to progress from not appearing in the game to appearing in the game. By including an increasing amount of musical npcs with instruments suited to their culture, Blizzard sets up a culture where a bard wouldn't seem out of place.

    While this could just as easily be progress toward musical emotes and novelty items similar to those that appear in other games (and WoW in the form of flutes and drums), it could also be used to justify other things.

    So, enough to work with; more than enough to show that musicians are part of many cultures, and we know that some music has power in WoW. With items around like the haunted war drums showing instruments can be important and imbued with power, and the picolo of flaming fire that shows that music can compel others to do something, it isn't too far to see that a bard class is a possibility.

    So, while it isn't much, it's more than monks had before their introduction by a long shot.
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  16. #776
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    There are people who sing music, and there are music that hurt or buff people. That alone is proof of concept enough that a bard-like class is possible in WoW
    Again, as I said earlier, POSSIBLE? Yes, of course it's POSSIBLE. LIKELY, however, it is not.

    which is part of the necromantic magic type
    Indeed it is. But it does not make Warlocks into Necromancers; It proves that soul-based magic can be covered in many different ways. In WoW, soul-based magic is covered through Demon magic.

    And that is one of the things Teriz won't accept. In his opinion, if a class deals with demons, there can be absolutely no other classes that deal with demons, despite we having two classes that deal heavily in the Light. (priests and paladins)
    As we've proven time and time again, Priests do not deal as heavily in the Light as you seem to think, as noted by the Shadow side of Priesthood. Paladins are tied to Light and Light only; Priests are more based on Faith. Faith in the Light and Faith in the Shadow. Their theme is Faith. Paladins theme is Light. Warlocks theme is Demons, as is Demon Hunters.

    That's the difference.

    Those two, just the way you described, prove they are necromantic spells.
    Again; The way they work in WoW is through Demon magic. Even Death Knights do not have soul-based spells.

    Not quite...
    Soul Reaper - Strikes an enemy for 130% weapon damage and afflicts the target with Soul Reaper. Does not claim to affect the soul.
    Mind Freeze - Smash the target's mind with cold. Frost, not psiionic.

    Anything else?

    Being a 'remnant' means nothing. Many spells were removed over time. That one stayed, therefore it's part of the Priest's canon arsenal.
    And it being a disease does not magically make it necromancy. With no other ties to necromancy, the Shadow Priest remains a being of psiionic power.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    If you feel that the game needs to have an entirely fleshed out bard character for them to ever appear in game, then there's no way to progress from not appearing in the game to appearing in the game. By including an increasing amount of musical npcs with instruments suited to their culture, Blizzard sets up a culture where a bard wouldn't seem out of place.

    While this could just as easily be progress toward musical emotes and novelty items similar to those that appear in other games (and WoW in the form of flutes and drums), it could also be used to justify other things.

    So, enough to work with; more than enough to show that musicians are part of many cultures, and we know that some music has power in WoW. With items around like the haunted war drums showing instruments can be important and imbued with power, and the picolo of flaming fire that shows that music can compel others to do something, it isn't too far to see that a bard class is a possibility.

    So, while it isn't much, it's more than monks had before their introduction by a long shot.
    I agree somewhat; The difference is that Bards would need a basis in Warcraft III as well. Brewmasters always had a chance to be introduced into WoW through the hints that Chen existed, such as Chen's missing keg in the Barrens; Monks, on the other hand, didn't have any other existance. It was only through the introduction of the Brewmaster that Monks could be formed. Bards have the Dwarven fiddler, but they don't have a Warcraft III existance; Bards could potentially exist, and have a larger existance than Monks.

    But Bards are still a long shot if you ask me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If a building's about to collapse, you can debate whether it's better to demolish it or repair it, and you can make political-agenda arguments either way. Disputing gravity itself to claim it won't fall down is not a political position, it's just ignorance.

  17. #777
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Again, as I said earlier, POSSIBLE? Yes, of course it's POSSIBLE. LIKELY, however, it is not.
    Want a very bard-like character in WoW? Lorewalker Cho.

    As we've proven time and time again, Priests do not deal as heavily in the Light as you seem to think, as noted by the Shadow side of Priesthood. Paladins are tied to Light and Light only; Priests are more based on Faith. Faith in the Light and Faith in the Shadow. Their theme is Faith. Paladins theme is Light. Warlocks theme is Demons, as is Demon Hunters.
    The theme of both Priests and Paladins is the Light. It does not matter if each class approaches the 'Light' in different ways or not. Both are about the Light. Same goes for Warlock and DH.

    Soul Reaper - Strikes an enemy for 130% weapon damage and afflicts the target with Soul Reaper. Does not claim to affect the soul.
    Mind Freeze - Smash the target's mind with cold. Frost, not psiionic.
    Soul Reaper. It's a strike on the soul.
    Mind Freeze: Smash the target's mind. Mind. Psionic.

    And it being a disease does not magically make it necromancy. With no other ties to necromancy, the Shadow Priest remains a being of psiionic power.
    Devouring Plague is not the only tie to necromancy.

    But Bards are still a long shot if you ask me.
    Nowhere near the 'long shot' you think it is. The Lorewalkers are very, very close to the definition of 'bards' as we got, right now. They pretty much embody all the lore-keeper part of the Bard. And Lorewalker Cho can sing.

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  18. #778
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Indeed it is. But it does not make Warlocks into Necromancers; It proves that soul-based magic can be covered in many different ways. In WoW, soul-based magic is covered through Demon magic.
    There's no such thing as "Soul-based magic"

    As we've proven time and time again, Priests do not deal as heavily in the Light as you seem to think, as noted by the Shadow side of Priesthood. Paladins are tied to Light and Light only; Priests are more based on Faith. Faith in the Light and Faith in the Shadow. Their theme is Faith. Paladins theme is Light. Warlocks theme is Demons, as is Demon Hunters.

    That's the difference.
    That's some heavy conjecture. Paladins have faith too, and their faith is rigorous and unerring compared to priests. One of the warlocks themes is demons... I don't know why you people think that all classes only have 1 theme that encompasses them entirely. Some hunters are experts with handling beasts, others are experts at firearms or their bow. One theme of rogues is poisons, another is being quick and agile in combat. Druids either embrace the wild and go for a feral angle, or are more in touch with nature, and go for a healing theme or "moon" theme..



    Again; The way they work in WoW is through Demon magic. Even Death Knights do not have soul-based spells.
    Once again...

    No such thing as "Soul-based spells." There's enough examples what constitutes as necromancy for anything to dealing with souls with arcane magic to include Drain Souls as a part of necromancy.


    Soul Reaper - Strikes an enemy for 130% weapon damage and afflicts the target with Soul Reaper. Does not claim to affect the soul.
    .

    Pretty sure if a soul is getting reaped, the soul is affected.

  19. #779
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Want a very bard-like character in WoW? Lorewalker Cho.
    For a musician, he seems quite unwilling to make music.

    The theme of both Priests and Paladins is the Light. It does not matter if each class approaches the 'Light' in different ways or not. Both are about the Light. Same goes for Warlock and DH.
    Again; The theme of Priests is NOT Light. Else Shadow Priests would not make sense.
    The theme of the Priest is Faith. Not Light. The theme of Demon Hunters and Warlocks are both Demons.

    Soul Reaper. It's a strike on the soul.
    Mind Freeze: Smash the target's mind. Mind. Psionic.
    It's a weapon strike with a debuff CALLED Soul Reaper. Nowhere in the spell description does it say it strikes the target's soul. You'll find many spells are named something that has nothing to do with the effect; Execute does not instantly kill the target despite EXECUTING them. Devouring Plague does not devour the target. If it doesn't say, you can't be sure it does what you think.
    Mind Freeze. As it says before, Smash the target's mind with cold. Is ice cream a psiionic magic because it can cause a brain freeze? No, it's frozen. It's frosty. It's cold. It hitting the mind does not make it psiionic, it's frost magic aimed at the mind.

    Devouring Plague is not the only tie to necromancy.
    Vampiric Touch is similar to Drain Life; Shadow magic, not necromancy. It involves no disease, no undeath.
    Vampiric Embrace is also Shadow magic, not necromancy. Involves no disease, no undeath.

    Them being called Vampiric has nothing to do with necromancy. Similar to Soul Reaper; It being named Soul Reaper doesn't suddenly make it a strike on the Soul.

    Nowhere near the 'long shot' you think it is. The Lorewalkers are very, very close to the definition of 'bards' as we got, right now. They pretty much embody all the lore-keeper part of the Bard. And Lorewalker Cho can sing.
    Source of Lorewalker singing or it didn't happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If a building's about to collapse, you can debate whether it's better to demolish it or repair it, and you can make political-agenda arguments either way. Disputing gravity itself to claim it won't fall down is not a political position, it's just ignorance.

  20. #780
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Indeed it is. But it does not make Warlocks into Necromancers; It proves that soul-based magic can be covered in many different ways. In WoW, soul-based magic is covered through Demon magic.
    Early in Warcraft's lore, Warlocks and Necromancy went hand in hand. Gul'dan was the first Warlock, and Kil'Jaedan taught him his craft, of which the use of Necromancy was 'reopened'. Who was it who instilled the original Death Knights with necromantic powers? Gul'dan. Who is it that granted Ner'zhul the powers of the Lich King? Kil'Jaedan.

    When it comes down to it, the only real separation is through gameplay. The themes are separated just enough so that there is room for 2 separate classes rather than one. This is exactly how Paladins came into play, originally having been part of the Priests/Clerics of Northshire Abbey.

    As we've proven time and time again, Priests do not deal as heavily in the Light as you seem to think, as noted by the Shadow side of Priesthood. Paladins are tied to Light and Light only; Priests are more based on Faith. Faith in the Light and Faith in the Shadow. Their theme is Faith. Paladins theme is Light. Warlocks theme is Demons, as is Demon Hunters.
    Priests having Shadow is simply an invention of WoW to separate them further from Paladins. If you look at all Shadow Priest in Warcraft 3, they all used Holy magic. If you look at examples of Priests in WoW even, there were no Shadow Priests until the Scarlet Onslaught in Wrath. It was a new concept that was brought to make Priests distinct, absolutely unsourced from anything prior.

    So basically if you're requiring Bards or any class to be sourced from existing material, you're argument would mean Priests should not have Shadow magic at all because there was no existing material that showed they could use it. This means Paladins would have immediate overlap with Priests. Do you see how your argument runs thin when we stick to 'what we know'?

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