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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkedge View Post
    That depends on your perspective, we can be upset about the lack of attention or happy about it. Very often there are things that one can't control or change, but what one can control is how you feel about it. I know what I'd rather be feeling.
    Oh no doubt man, I just think the biggest people crying about changes are ranged being unable to move and cast now and warriors(although rightly so, the class to me has been fine for a long time and scales exceptionally well with gear). However, would I rather stay the same than get gutted and changed absolutely...but at the same time if the developers want to push their agenda on us regardless of how we as their consumer base feels, then I and people who arent happy about the changes have the right to withdraw our subscription. I won't pay to play this game if they don't listen to serious concerns of DKs(like killing machine, poor stat scaling, shallow game play with frost etc.) After MoP I trust them again in terms of raid encounters and the reduced CCs makes me feel like they are taking a step in the right direction for pvp, however the way they address legitimate concerns of any class is quite bullheaded and stubborn. They are clearly behind schedule with Warlords, as things theyve promised for 6.0 aren't going to be there for the release, and quite honestly Im not going to deal with their bullshit if they continually just give half-assed answers or feel what they want is more important than what the majority of the player base of a specific class wants.
    Last edited by valliant13; 2014-07-04 at 10:05 PM.

  2. #102
    Ranged can complain about not being able to cast while moving when I can melee stuff 40 yards away.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    Ranged can complain about not being able to cast while moving when I can melee stuff 40 yards away.
    That's how I've felt for the last two expansions. I leveled a warlock simply because of Kil'Jaedan's Cunning but never thought it's something they should truly have either way. I remember when I played a mage in tbc/vanilla I had to stand and plant and if I moved the melee would catch up. However any stand and plant fight I would always top my guilds dps. I'm glad it's being brought back.

  4. #104
    It really is more fun when you can cast and move. Before WoD alpha started and GC moved on, he said they were thinking about a new niche for melee, so they could let ranged keep movement. Guess that never materialized. Pity.

  5. #105
    I'd be totally fine with ranged keeping mobile casting if melee had something else.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    It really is more fun when you can cast and move. Before WoD alpha started and GC moved on, he said they were thinking about a new niche for melee, so they could let ranged keep movement. Guess that never materialized. Pity.
    Eh, If they can cast and move then their base damage should be reduced a lot. That was a bonus of being melee in vanilla/tbc. Like I said I remember being the top damage in my guild if I could stand and plant, but IF I had to move melee would catch up. I thought it was a very fair trade off. The sad part is, what else could be melee's niche if casters kept mobile casting? I personally can't think of anything...Maybe getting the benefit of heavier strikes due to having to be close to the action?

  7. #107
    It is a fair tradeoff, but like I said in my post, ranged enjoyed moving.

    It is indeed difficult to think of strong melee niches, which is probably why they abandoned the concept. Ranged needs cleave these days, so that's not it. You can't just make everybody deal more damage when in melee range, otherwise you'd have entire raids with their noses in the boss' rear end. Not a trivial exercise to think of something that resists casual scrutiny.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    As a death knight, I would very much like to get rid of necrotic strike. I hate being bottle necked into spamming that move to be effective. If they get rid of it and balance damage and whatnot around no longer having it, the class will be much more fun to me.
    Death knights don't just spam ns anymore. They have to wait for death runes and it was unique. Something that only death knight could do but has been insanely broken at points. I love/hate the change.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Challenge View Post
    Not really, because they could actually make scourge strike hit like a monster (more than NS can absorb consistently) and just nerf other spells in relative damage while keeping the same net damage in PvE. Thats not the case in PvP.



    The first bold is somewhat wrong, our main damage on every fight really should be blood plague. The max potential of the class in PvE is really revolved around DoT snapshotting, not how many SS's you can get out. The second bold is another reason why they are axing one. There is no need to have 2 different strikes for 2 different parts of gameplay that ultimately, perform the same job. Next point also refers to this



    Because I showed you as an example how much how a number knob can do. If they was equal, SS would win 90% of the time. Because SS also have the great benefit of scaling properly. If they can tune SS to make up for NS in PvP there is no need for NS. The same logic does not work for PvE, because NS is useless there. Outright damage on the other hand is never useless in any scenario.



    Dks were AMAZING s5,s6, Pretty decent s7, below average s8, average s9, average s10, pretty great s11 and s12, s13, s14 , s15 below average.
    In season 9 death knights and warriors were both overpowered as fuck.

  9. #109
    Not sure how people can complain about "spamming necrotic strike" when with the changes you'll end up spamming more scourge strike than you do necrotic strike now since you'll use all unholy + death runes to scourge strike. Just dumb downs the gameplay more with the removal, same with double grip leaving and I don't see any other than the necrotic plague having pvp viability due to positional requirements + Breath of sindragosa secondary effect is too situaltional as it is. And necrotic plague actually makes the gameplay in pvp even simpler than not having it.

    There is some obvious problems with some talents like Remorseless winter like all slow removals removing the stacking stun debuff which makes is completely useless in pvp since there is massive amount of low cd slow removals and addition to all those you can simply cc dk and move away or just use pure mobility not to be next to dk etc etc. Way too many weaknesses for a single ability, when it has such a long stacking time already.

    No changes to frost/blood presence either so, so frost probably needs to be broken as fuck in other aspects to be viable in arenas. They really should try to fix even one/two specs of a class to a good pvp state before trying to balance tank specs in pvp.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Jambie View Post
    Not sure how people can complain about "spamming necrotic strike" when with the changes you'll end up spamming more scourge strike than you do necrotic strike now since you'll use all unholy + death runes to scourge strike. Just dumb downs the gameplay more with the removal, same with double grip leaving and I don't see any other than the necrotic plague having pvp viability due to positional requirements + Breath of sindragosa secondary effect is too situaltional as it is. And necrotic plague actually makes the gameplay in pvp even simpler than not having it.

    There is some obvious problems with some talents like Remorseless winter like all slow removals removing the stacking stun debuff which makes is completely useless in pvp since there is massive amount of low cd slow removals and addition to all those you can simply cc dk and move away or just use pure mobility not to be next to dk etc etc. Way too many weaknesses for a single ability, when it has such a long stacking time already.

    No changes to frost/blood presence either so, so frost probably needs to be broken as fuck in other aspects to be viable in arenas. They really should try to fix even one/two specs of a class to a good pvp state before trying to balance tank specs in pvp.
    Personally I wish they'd rid of the defensive value of "tank stances" in pvp. Or only allow non tanking abilities to be used in battle stance. Same would go for DKs...but I dont know what they could do to fix it for unholy sitting in BP...I hate the idea that warriors and DKs can sit in tanking stances with no massive impact to their damage/pressure.

    As far as remorseless winter, I personally think it should be hungering cold again. It's TOO easy to get away from DKs as is, and with us losing double grip it will be easier to kite us. I don't know why they continue to throw but you have death grip in our face when it comes to pvp...it's actually quite pathetic.

  11. #111
    Hope they bring back Necrotic Strike. I simply do not like unholy in Beta much. Mostly just dueling but it feels like it's missing something without NS. I don't think I'll be happy even if they buff Scourge Strike to respectable levels which they probably won't much. Something tells me they're happy with its current damage now. PvE. Necrotic Strike made it possible to balance unholy for PvP without affecting dragons.

    For example, I converted 4 runes to death runes and spammed Scourge strike 6 times on a warrior in Defensive Stance and it didn't do much. He on the other hand got me to less than half health in 4 seconds. We were similarly geared. I know it's too early but if you're expecting they'll buff SS to hit near Mortal Strike levels, you'll be disappointed.

    Necrotic plague is fun though. Best source of damage at full stack. But it will probably get dispelled a lot in arenas so probably only Dot comps for unholy from now, and with Glyph of dispel protection, it will only probably hit as hard as BP and FF combined. Haven't tested that

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by darklift View Post
    Hope they bring back Necrotic Strike. I simply do not like unholy in Beta much. Mostly just dueling but it feels like it's missing something without NS. I don't think I'll be happy even if they buff Scourge Strike to respectable levels which they probably won't much. Something tells me they're happy with its current damage now. PvE. Necrotic Strike made it possible to balance unholy for PvP without affecting dragons.

    For example, I converted 4 runes to death runes and spammed Scourge strike 6 times on a warrior in Defensive Stance and it didn't do much. He on the other hand got me to less than half health in 4 seconds. We were similarly geared. I know it's too early but if you're expecting they'll buff SS to hit near Mortal Strike levels, you'll be disappointed.

    Necrotic plague is fun though. Best source of damage at full stack. But it will probably get dispelled a lot in arenas so probably only Dot comps for unholy from now, and with Glyph of dispel protection, it will only probably hit as hard as BP and FF combined. Haven't tested that
    The bold is my biggest concern. NS made it possible to balance the spec in both aspects of the game without one effecting the other. Without it I feel the spec will either be too good or shitty. However the unholy changes we've seen so far make it look like a strong spec out of the gate for WoD.

  13. #113
    I definitely won't complain if unholy ends up being strong without needing some gimmick to abuse for once.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by valliant13 View Post
    ...but I dont know what they could do to fix it for unholy sitting in BP...
    I think pretty much every DK in existence would rather be in unholy presence. Sad thing is that we have almost no defense so we HAVE to sit in blood to not be a corpse. Fix that first.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    I think pretty much every DK in existence would rather be in unholy presence. Sad thing is that we have almost no defense so we HAVE to sit in blood to not be a corpse. Fix that first.
    By nature of caster changes in warlords, DKs will see a survival boost against caster comps. However melee comps will train a dk and the dk will fall over...We wear plate but it feels like cloth based on damage intake by melee outside of BP.

  16. #116
    Fun fact: since inner fire was changed to 60% armour priests have more armour than death knights without blood presence.

    I miss the days when being in plate meant something.

  17. #117
    Cloth wearers always were above leather in armour alone due to selfbuffs. So the correct term for a squishy would be "feels like leather"
    .
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman

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