1. #1

    Resto Druid Help

    Hi guys.

    I've recently swapped to a resto druid main to play on an alt server. The guild I have been gearing up with was having a lot of trouble on Garrosh tonight, and although I unfortunately do not have logs, I was hoping that some of you might be able to tear my character apart to give me some advice to better at least myself.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...narra/advanced
    Kinarra @ Proudmoore

    I am working on secrets to get my cloak (and super excited about the increased drop rate of the legendary quest items), so I know that I am missing that. As far as gear and stats, I understand that the haste BP to shoot for is 13136, and I'm only hovering around 11k. I've read some mixed reviews of - go for haste and always haste, others of if you can't hit the BP, don't bother. I'm sort of confused and trying to really make sure I hit it, without sacrificing mana and throughput. Should I be reforging to mastery if I can't get the 13136 haste? Or is it okay to be under?

    I've been playing around with talents a lot - usually defaulting to Force of Nature because it was comfortable. However, I'm finding that with Garrosh, it just doesn't work. Tonight I tried Soul of the Forest, and seemed to be hitting the right times to use it - popping it so that I can WG the first few seconds of whirling corruption, just before annihilate hits, etc. Incarnation seemed to completely destroy my mana bar, so I avoided using that. I AM 2 healing (disc priest is healing partner) and 1 tanking (with a rather... squishy druid tank). Was using Heart of the Wild for most of the night, but swapped to Nature's Vigil to try to get an extra healing cool down in. We also have a shaman in our group that I am using for Spiritwalker's Grace. I seem to be keeping up fairly well with our priest, who has slightly more gear and his cloak. But still, I was only averaging 90k heals (between 75k and 100k).

    If there's anything else you could tell me, I'd be really appreciative. I had no problem healing Proving Grounds and Challenge Modes, but Garrosh is harder for some reason? Used to my Paladin, which was very much the opposite.

    Thanks! =)
    Last edited by spareoh; 2014-06-17 at 05:03 AM.

  2. #2
    3043 or 13163 Haste.

    Consensus is the later being the accepted route.

    Which you can hit in current gear.

    As for talent choices you mentioned, SotF or Inc. is truly up to you, I tend to use SotF and on other Fights InC; haven't bothered with FoN.

    Don't hold WG, use it off CD, even if not hasted by SotF.

    Keep LB up on the tank ( derp ) and roll Rj's on the targets not affected from WG ( decent coverage of HoTs )

    The Rj's will go to OH and charge your Shroom up pretty fast.

    During the first phase Bloom to heal up the ranged in your shroom when the explosion happens.

    Move the shroom in anticipation of where you need to stack for interupts so after the MC's are broken you can pop to heal them up super fast.

    As youre going to fight Gary at the various locations, drop your shroom and toss a few Rj's, since most of the movement is damage free it will charge up well, and when place it on Gary, so when the AOE damage happens from Devastate ( or w/e its called ) you can bloom to bring people up.

    Now as for how much you are healing in comparison to a disc, I wouldn't sweat it, if everyone is doing their job correctly, in regular 10m Garrosh, you are decently on par for what would be needed. Now if people aren't doing their job correctly and standing in crap to long, aoe'n the adds to meter pad, yeah I can see why your druid tank is being squishy.

    But without logs truly to see what you are doing a long with everyone else, its only tips, rather than criticism.

    Anyhow, good luck.

  3. #3
    Hi there,

    Haste:
    http://www.totemspot.com/images/hast...dresto.5.4.gif
    As you can see in the link, you sitting at 11698 haste only yields you 1 Regrowth tick, 1 Wild Growth tick, and 3 Lifebloom ticks. It is strongly recommended to be either at 3043 or 13163, nothing in between, as non-rejuvenation HBP (haste break points) provide a smaller throughput gain than if you just went for mastery instead. Taking a quick look at your character through Mr.Robot, it looks like if you redo your gems/enchants you can get to about 3200 haste, which is much better than what you have now.

    Talents:
    If people are dying, I definitely do recommend Nature's Vigil. It's up for every other whirling, and gives quite a big boost. I do recommend Soul of the Forest, as it helps quite a lot with whirling, and useful for Tranquility as well. Incarnation is a viable option if mana is an issue, but stylistically it's better for long, sustained damage phases where you can either roll multiple LBs or simply play normally and use it just for a 15% throughput gain. I'm assuming you were spamming Regrowths during Incarnation which really can hurt your mana, and should be avoided. Force of Nature might feel comfortable just because it's automatic, but it's definitely the weakest option in the tier, and should be avoided completely.

    Without logs, it's really hard to tell what you are and aren't doing. Here's a few general things though:
    -Wild Mushroom: Bloom is very good for Whirling Corruption. Try to always have a charged shroom ready to bloom halfway through, even on Empowered Whirlings. Even if it hits 1-2 people it's still worth it, since it's off the GCD anyway.
    -If you aren't comfortable with SotF, just use Incarnation. SotF requires you to be pretty good about timing it with WG and incoming damage. Incarnation is good to have for one of the P3 Empowered Whirling anyway.
    -Try to set something up with your priest so that you guys aren't healing the same targets. You both raid heal via spamming instants on the raid (for Emp. Whirl), and things can go awry if you both start spamming with Grp.1 and Grp.2 gets nothing until it's too late.

  4. #4
    Thanks guys! I'm going to sort out logs tonight. I'm used to our RL using them on Horde, but this one doesn't. I did notice that I wasn't using the full benefit of Harmony, so I got a weak aura string to track it.

    In regards to hitting haste and the comment that it can be done in my gear - I've been using ReforgeLite to set my gear up and I can't quite hit the cap, I will try to see what Robot says for me after I get home from work today. If I were to drop down to the 3043 haste cap and using more mastery, does that change the healing style significantly?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by spareoh View Post
    In regards to hitting haste and the comment that it can be done in my gear - I've been using ReforgeLite to set my gear up and I can't quite hit the cap, I will try to see what Robot says for me after I get home from work today. If I were to drop down to the 3043 haste cap and using more mastery, does that change the healing style significantly?
    You can still use SotF with lower haste, or InC, its truly up to you.

    As for hitting the higher Haste, i entered you into AMR set spirit to 14k, haste to 13163 and you were shown to hit it, without losing the current state of mastery.

    I used to use RFL, but it never took gems enchants into account, maybe user error *shrug its been a while


    Just cause your guild isnt running logs, run them for yourself... Name the guild PUG or something.

  6. #6
    As promised, here are the logs for tonight. Ignore the ToT LFR, that was just me trying to figure out how to use WoL. I did notice a huge change getting that 13k haste cap and using Soul of the Forest more effectively. I also picked up some pieces today - hooray!

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/324382/

  7. #7
    Just be more mindful of Life Bloom and Harmony up times. Aim for 100% on both. Otherwise its just learning when to expect damage, communicating CD's with your other healer, when and where you can make it fun and Dps some, run around in Tree form yelling " LOOK IM A CHICKEN HAWK!" , how to cheese meters to make your other healer look really awful; cause honestly in the end its about having fun, and if you aren't a HC raiding guild, might as well play around within limits

    I am part of a true casual raid guild, currently only 8/14H, sure it would be nice to full clear HC but we won't, nor do many of us care, call it dare to care mentality *shrug, in the end its only an escape of a few hours a week If its all serious, I'd have to call it work and not a game.

    Good luck to you.

  8. #8
    The Patient Drefan's Avatar
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    Stats: I would not go for a high haste build untill you're mostly heroic geared, including the sha trinket. I've healed without the high haste cap and kept on par with our other druid who was at the high haste cap. Only diffrence was that I pulled ahead on "burst fights" while he came out on top on fights such as thok.
    We're fighting to get healing done since it's farm now so keep that in mind.

    The biggest problem I see with people going for the high haste cap is that they dont really know why, I would personally say that the extra spirit and mastery you get from not going for the cap is so worth having especially on lower item lvls. And on fights like thok, genesis is your friend if you see the raid dropping rapidly.


    Talents: With high haste I see you use SotF, why? You will only get one more tick. I would go with Tree of Life since you've a low gcd and can spam the raid with LB's before a massive aoe is comming. Ursol's vortex is an amazing talent to have in SoO. It's great on Immerius, Seigecrafter, Nazgrim. So remember to swap to it
    Don't use Dream of Cenarius. I would go with Heart of the Wild, you can help with dmg during Bloodlust / Hero and the passive stats gained are amazing.

    Some tips:
    Always keep efflo up, and dont save your bloom for too long, remember it's easy to get back up to 100% fast. a few rejuvs and genesis and your there!
    Time WG with raid AoE, dont use it as a blind filler just because it's off cooldown.
    Always keep Harmony up, on your thok kill (3rd attempt = Harmony 74.6 %).

    Garrosh:
    Keep a 100% bloom for each big AoE in Phase 1 and 2. You dont have much to do here and keeping a nice bloom for each big burst is extremely importnat and helps you out a lot with ur mana issues.
    Always move your efflo with the raid.
    In p2 / 3 move the efflo ahead on the path where the raid will run (if you run stacked). Else here you will need to rotate big raid dmg reductions and I suggest using Tree. You said it drained your manapool to quickly try giving the lower hast cap a go and see if that changes. You can't give everyone 3stacks of lb's so focus on the ammont you feel comfortable with. You could focus on group 1 during the wirhlwind and your disc takes group 2.

    Use HotW for your P3 hero and with the buff up you can Hurricane the MC's if they're stacked.
    FatSharkYes on Shattered Hand EU 14/14 HC

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Drefan View Post
    The biggest problem I see with people going for the high haste cap is that they dont really know why, I would personally say that the extra spirit and mastery you get from not going for the cap is so worth having especially on lower item lvls. And on fights like thok, genesis is your friend if you see the raid dropping rapidly.


    Talents: With high haste I see you use SotF, why? You will only get one more tick. I would go with Tree of Life since you've a low gcd and can spam the raid with LB's before a massive aoe is comming. Ursol's vortex is an amazing talent to have in SoO. It's great on Immerius, Seigecrafter, Nazgrim. So remember to swap to it
    Don't use Dream of Cenarius. I would go with Heart of the Wild, you can help with dmg during Bloodlust / Hero and the passive stats gained are amazing.
    Druids that have 13163 haste, have their meta and are clearing farm content (I've done 14/14 heroic) usually kill their bosses pretty quickly, nullifying the need for tree form. The only fight I take it for it malkorok so I can buff my tranquility to infinity. High end druids know exactly why they take their talents and why they use a certain spell when. I agree some people blindly follow someone's armory when they're not even close to them same level raiding wise, and that can be bad for them because certain builds are for certain fights (in 10 man, using the 3 tank strat on shamans, I would drop my wild growth glyph (I only had four people to heal) and pick up HT to have extra burst healing and it was slightly more useful than wg, though if someone saw my armory if I logged out with it would think I'm a noob or I'm a genius).

    OT: You have your meta gem, make sure you're tracking when it procs and how long you have left on it so you can get the maximum out of it. This will allow you to drop down to between 13k and 12k spirit, which is where most heroic druids are at. I'm personally right in the middle but the priest I raided with never used his mana CD when it was useful for both of us, just when he needed it. If you raid with a priest or shaman, you could coordinate when they use their mana CDs to get the most out of it.. For talents, use either SotF or tree (when in tree, only use lifebloom (unless meta procs, then use rejuv) and try to get at least one stack on everyone, using your regrowths to pop anyone that is low back to full (usually during whirlings and empowered whirlings)).

    NV is very useful because you can use it for the first whirling and it'll be up for the third (if you get it), or you can sit on it and use it during your temple phases. The trick is to figure out how long the fight is for you and when using NV would be the most beneficial. Typically, I used my NV during temple phase and then whatever whirling phase I could next while still having it up for the next temple, so that would usually be the 2nd whirling.

  10. #10
    Mindlessly using WG off CD is kinda stupid. It won't do any actual healing half the time. It will also delete your mana.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlanckEnergy View Post
    Mindlessly using WG off CD is kinda stupid. It won't do any actual healing half the time. It will also delete your mana.
    Considering you nearly never run completely oom (particularly with the meta) and there's usually enough aoe/raid damage going around (heroics especially)....you should be casting WG on CD (unless you are lining it up to time with a raid mechanic)

  12. #12
    If you aren't getting close to running OOM you aren't trying very hard (in 25... in 10 I agree it would be very hard to run out of mana on most fights).

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlanckEnergy View Post
    If you aren't getting close to running OOM you aren't trying very hard (in 25... in 10 I agree it would be very hard to run out of mana on most fights).
    um what? 25 druids usually have at least a priest or a shaman (sometimes 2 or 3) to give mana back while 10 man druids have a much lower chance of getting to raid with a mana battery. I had mana for days and I only had 12.5k spirit for my 25 heroic druid. It's way "easier" (no, I didn't say easy, just easiER) to run oom in 10 man. There's more stuff to do with fewer people and the odds of the other healer(s) being on par with you could be pretty low. In 25 man you have four/five other healers to pick up your slack.

    I would cast WG nearly on cd in my 10 man group on almost every fight and line up every other swiftmend with it. I would use my other swiftmend to put a hasted rejuv or lifebloom on the tank or who ever was taking damage at the moment. I wouldn't run out of mana too quickly and it would usually be my rejuv usage that would make my mana bar drop, not my wg. I was also two healing with a disc for half of heroic SoO and a paladin the other half. I'd say I would always top, but that's not a good indicator of how good of a healer you are. Needless to say, I was in charge of all things related to healing.

  14. #14
    Four or Five other healers? 25M? What kind of raid are you running? Not a particularly efficient one. The only fight that requires more than 3 Healers is Thok, at 4. 5 if you want to be safe.

    Besides that, clearly, if you are "relying" on other Healers to "pick up your slack" then by definition you aren't really "trying very hard."

    There is also far, far less Rejuvenation guesswork in 10m. This saves immense amounts of mana.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlanckEnergy View Post
    Four or Five other healers? 25M? What kind of raid are you running? Not a particularly efficient one. The only fight that requires more than 3 Healers is Thok, at 4. 5 if you want to be safe.

    Besides that, clearly, if you are "relying" on other Healers to "pick up your slack" then by definition you aren't really "trying very hard."

    There is also far, far less Rejuvenation guesswork in 10m. This saves immense amounts of mana.
    I was raiding 25 when it was still "hard" and you didn't blow through everything easy peasy and to help your raid get through the progression and learning curve, you had 5 healers on every fight, and I was just using general numbers that most guilds use to prove a point. By picking up slack, I meant that you can't heal everyone by yourself on every single fight. Sure, you probably could on Sha or Galak and Garrosh, but most other 10 man fights require you to have two healers. The people that you cannot heal = your slack. The other healer is there to pick up that slack in order to keep the raid alive. I wasn't implying that I simply chose not to heal this person because I was lazy and not wanting to be a good healer. I simply couldn't because I have higher priority targets and this goes for every duo healing team.

    Why are you so aggressive about all this? It's just my opinion based on my experience and I never said my way is the only way that druid healers heal. You're stating your stuff as fact when it really isn't. I've simply been in both scenarios and I think 25 man is a lot easier to keep your mana up and 10 man requires more personal skill because one death usually equals a wipe if you've already used your single battle rez. That's all I was trying to say for this guy who asked for help. I wasn't trying to say I was right or you were wrong, just that I have a different view on things.

  16. #16
    Soul of the forest is more powerful with a mastery build. It gives +100% percentage points of haste, it does not double your haste, which means it adds the same amount of ticks regardless of your haste value. With a mastery build each tick heals for more. I'm thinking dropping (tier) pieces with haste in favour of (warforged) items with crit and just go mastery can be interesting.

    Soul of the forest is the default tier 4 talent, because it's best on throughput, and it's a smartheal. In some situations you may want to use a different talent, but Soul of the Forest is so strong you will need to be able to play it properly if you have ambitions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlanckEnergy View Post
    Mindlessly using WG off CD is kinda stupid. It won't do any actual healing half the time. It will also delete your mana.
    Yes - mana that could be put into mastery, to get more healing when it actually matters.
    Hildrande: Resto Druid - Argent Dawn - EU. Logs, armory.

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