Stance Dancing

[Deleted]

A few people commenting on the latest front page post mentioned the return of stance dancing. (Mostly negatively).
I don't know if this is a definite need having not played alpha with these patch notes, but what are your guys thoughts on it making a return?
I for one love the idea of it coming back, I was gutted when we didn't have any need to do it anymore; I felt like we had lost a major part of the play style. It made my warrior feel much more dynamic (whether it was or not is a different question.) But for me it was an important part of play, and am delighted by the prospect of return!

[Bloodletters]

I've stance danced on about every fight this expansion. That said, there's already a thread where we're discussing this in.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...cussion-thread

[RapBreon]

A few people commenting on the latest front page post mentioned the return of stance dancing. (Mostly negatively).
I don't know if this is a definite need having not played alpha with these patch notes, but what are your guys thoughts on it making a return?
I for one love the idea of it coming back, I was gutted when we didn't have any need to do it anymore; I felt like we had lost a major part of the play style. It made my warrior feel much more dynamic (whether it was or not is a different question.) But for me it was an important part of play, and am delighted by the prospect of return!

Yeah I intend to main Warrior for the first time ever if I come back for WoD due to this and Gladiator stance (always wanted to play a DPS with a shield).

[Zka]

Why will we need to stance dance again? I'm missing something. I started to read that topic but honestly, it's 90% whiny shitpost I have no patience to wade through.
Also, I don't think they would return to this mechanic - other than some kind of optional, gimmicky thing.

- - - Updated - - -

come back for WoD due to this and Gladiator stance (always wanted to play a DPS with a shield).

+1
Even tanking feels like shield DPS since LK

[Deleted]

'requires defstance' won't stay in there because it would counterfit changes of a whole expansion without any reasoning behind it when you look at other class' changes.

[lazzy]

A few people commenting on the latest front page post mentioned the return of stance dancing. (Mostly negatively).
I don't know if this is a definite need having not played alpha with these patch notes, but what are your guys thoughts on it making a return?
I for one love the idea of it coming back, I was gutted when we didn't have any need to do it anymore; I felt like we had lost a major part of the play style. It made my warrior feel much more dynamic (whether it was or not is a different question.) But for me it was an important part of play, and am delighted by the prospect of return!

I pray that stance dancing never comes back. Anyone who says they liked stance dancing never played in Vanilla/BC having to switch to shield to kick then battle to overpower then to bezerker to dps was just stupid. LK fixed it to playable but even then it was a pain.

Jumping from once stance to another doesn't really add anything dynamic because most people just make macros to do everything anyway.

So all your defense spells end up just being /cast defensive stance /cast Shield /cast one hander /cast spell reflect. It's just a terrible game mechanic that shouldn't be there.

When they changed it in Cata it was a step in the right direction (even though they sucked but that was for other reasons) if they go back I feel like warriors will be taking a step back.

[Darkfriend]

Honestly, I'm betting the "requires def stance" is just something to keep glad stance warriors from using it perhaps or some other alpha reason.

[Skiboy]

Honestly, I'm betting the "requires def stance" is just something to keep glad stance warriors from using it perhaps or some other alpha reason.

See you would think that, but that then means that a warrior in glad stance now not only can't Rally, but can't use a single utility spell.(this includes an ENTIRE TIER of talents) It seems at face value that they are designing against themselves.

[hollafame]

Culling raid utility was always the intention of the dev's for every DPS and tank spec, so these change in a way, are better than just removing them completely. Maybe raid leaders will tell warriors 'just dps,' instead of sacrificing damage for using [insert defensive cooldown here.]

[Mosotti]

I hate stance dancing, so return of the stance dancing = another reason to not play the game anymore. Sure I can't see any "depth" in that crap, like I didn't see any "depth" in hunter aspects. Oh, I need to dps, hawk. Oh, mana low, viper. Oh, melee damage, monkey. Oh, need to run faster, cheetaaaaaah bleah

[Krommm]

I think it's archaic and silly, but it does add something to do. There's been a lot of changes, so I'm not even sure if we'll actually need to be stance dancing to play competitively.

Also, I hope deep wounds is not really gone from DPS specs...

[Archimtiros]

See you would think that, but that then means that a warrior in glad stance now not only can't Rally, but can't use a single utility spell.(this includes an ENTIRE TIER of talents) It seems at face value that they are designing against themselves.

You really think that is intended? Come on guys.

- - - Updated - - -

I think it's archaic and silly, but it does add something to do. There's been a lot of changes, so I'm not even sure if we'll actually need to be stance dancing to play competitively.

Also, I hope deep wounds is not really gone from DPS specs...

It doesn't add something to do when you simply macro the stuff in. Unless they put stances back on the GCD (which would be stupid), and even then macros would do the work.

[Deleted]

They can't possibly think they're adding anything gameplay wise by slapping "requires X stance" onto an ability. I truly wish I had a logical explanation for what they're doing but the best I can come up with was that Gladiator Stance got too strong so they had to add stance requirements. There's nothing remotely skilful, in-depth or (in my opinion) fun/challenging about them. If anything Reflect requiring a stance will probably have an in adverse effect on people that play with higher latency.

Stance requirements are nothing more than making it 100% apparent we'll be needing more macro slots. It's going to be Dragon Soul as Arms all over again, except in this case it's a necessity and with all things that become a necessity it's going to be a learning curve... Which is probably not that great of a thing to put in for new players or people that haven't played since Wrath.

[Mouri Kogorou]

Yeah I intend to main Warrior for the first time ever if I come back for WoD due to this and Gladiator stance (always wanted to play a DPS with a shield).

i fail to see the relation of stance dancing and gladiator stance since you cant switch out of it in combat.


regarding the latest notes, i just dont like stance dancing because all it does is forcing us going through making multiple macros for each ability, yes that is all what it does.

[megaurko]

They can't possibly think they're adding anything gameplay wise by slapping "requires X stance" onto an ability. I truly wish I had a logical explanation for what they're doing but the best I can come up with was that Gladiator Stance got too strong so they had to add stance requirements. There's nothing remotely skilful, in-depth or (in my opinion) fun/challenging about them. If anything Reflect requiring a stance will probably have an in adverse effect on people that play with higher latency.

Stance requirements are nothing more than making it 100% apparent we'll be needing more macro slots. It's going to be Dragon Soul as Arms all over again, except in this case it's a necessity and with all things that become a necessity it's going to be a learning curve... Which is probably not that great of a thing to put in for new players or people that haven't played since Wrath.

Blizz guys must either implement it as it is currently working for druids (using save automatically activates stance, bear form if we are talking about druids) or revert it back as it is now. Since warriors will have to either macro appropriate stance to every ability or, the class will be unplayable (if you cannot use the save ability fast, what good is it then?!), at least in PvP. I personally think that both macroing and stance dance is a poor design. WoW interface is already too hard for most classes, why make it even harder? Why am I seeing most classes being made easier to control (have a look at new ferral builds with 2 buttons main rotation and CP finishers), specially in PvP, but the warrior suffers from such stupid designer decisions? Don't tell me about WOTLK warriors! It is long, long gone! There are a lot of new people who haven't played even Cata! So forcing them back to 30 button monstrous UI with 25 macros, special MMO mouse and other s*t like this is just retarded...

[Deleted]

On the subject of the interface...

I use the Razer Naga addon, it basically does the same thing as Bartender and to a certain extent the button layout theme that Elv-UI uses, so when switching stances my bars don't actually move. However I seem to remember on the default UI that your bar switches to a different 'set' when you switch stances? I don't know about you but that seems hella confusing for me and I've known about that type of thing since '09.

Also yeah, that's another issue. If we choose NOT to macro then you'll have to manually switch stances for every damn ability you want to use outside of your core rotation. Perhaps this was their intention from the start and they removed Berserker Stance for this. It feels like a heavily PvP orientated change which if I'm completely honest... Is kinda dumb.

I know it's alpha, things are destined to change blah blah blah but currently reading between the lines I see:

- Second Wind is utterly useless versus 75% of the classes in the game.
- Rallying Cry's "leach" is the same.
- We lost a stun (somewhat justifiable)
- Can no longer pool rage properly in Battle Stance and switch to Defensive whilst still being offensive
- Can't gain rage through stuns or roots (so if you're being nuked like a bitch by a mage you can't even sit Defensive stance... Or rather you can but don't expect to do a fucking thing to him
- Even if you somehow manage to pool enough rage to er... Use whatever is left... CS and MS have a combined 60 Rage Cost.
- I guess we can spam whirlwind...


It's extremely hard to be optimistic or realistic when your only viable PvP spec (fuck off Gladiator spec) is going through changes that not even the Devs can justify yet.

[Soisoisoi]

Personally find it annoying, and I don't main a Warrior. With the upcoming changes there's not even any "Stance dancing" involved, it's literally just forcing you to macro Def Stance + Spell Reflect again, along with Battle Stance + CS/MS/Slam, which is pointless and the reason they changed it in the first place.

Also Hamstring only in Battle Stance means Warriors can't sit in Def all day either, which is good (personally hate having to sit in the likes of Def Stance and Blood Presence the majority of games), but means you can't slow someone if you need to be in Defensive - which is a bit backwards as you're likely to be wanting to take less damage if you can't hit something.

Maybe - and it's a big maybe - it would be okay if they made it like a Druid's Prowl, in that if you hit Spell Reflection it would auto-change your Stance.

[Deleted]

I pray that stance dancing never comes back. Anyone who says they liked stance dancing never played in Vanilla/BC having to switch to shield to kick then battle to overpower then to bezerker to dps was just stupid. LK fixed it to playable but even then it was a pain.

I played back in those days... and I still enjoyed it. I quite liked switching my weapons in and out. Shows how different we all are eh!

I find it interesting the amount of people who are completely against this, I see your points, it was annoying having to macro everything. But still for some reason really feel we lost something.

From what I have read here, yes get rid of the weapon switching, minimal macros is ideal, however I do think you should have to switch into defensive stance in order to use shield wall or similar defense cooldowns- spells like enraged regen. etc should stay universal. But it adds extra flavour switching into a defence stance to use these kind kind of moves- to me it just makes sense

- - - Updated - - -

Personally find it annoying, and I don't main a Warrior. With the upcoming changes there's not even any "Stance dancing" involved, it's literally just forcing you to macro Def Stance + Spell Reflect again, along with Battle Stance + CS/MS/Slam, which is pointless and the reason they changed it in the first place.

Also Hamstring only in Battle Stance means Warriors can't sit in Def all day either, which is good (personally hate having to sit in the likes of Def Stance and Blood Presence the majority of games), but means you can't slow someone if you need to be in Defensive - which is a bit backwards as you're likely to be wanting to take less damage if you can't hit something.

Maybe - and it's a big maybe - it would be okay if they made it like a Druid's Prowl, in that if you hit Spell Reflection it would auto-change your Stance.

This. You pretty much got my point across there to be honest, things like hamstring should be in battle, so should execute- why would be executing when your stance is telling you to defend.

[Deleted]

I should probably calm down with the posting...

I like the idea of being forced out of Defensive Stance to be Offensive. I think the whole point in having Stances is for you to judge the situation and use the stance best suited. However I think the way for this to be a MANDATORY thing is to change the way the stances work, not the abilities that can be used IN the stances.

It's been suggested time and time again but..

Defensive Stance - drastically reduce Rage Regeration, but on top of that... 25% damage reduction is huge. If it was only 10% or the difference between Battle and Defensive was 10% people would be more inclined to switch out. Currently switching from D stance to Battle is basically like wearing a huge banner reading "HIT ME" and mooning the enemy.

Battle Stance - Since they've changed the way rage regens I don't think the amount of rage you get from this stance is the way forward. Maybe add a CD reduction (Haste?) or a damage increase or just... I don't really know, something that makes it worth while to sit in Battle Stance and actually risk dying.

Removing Unending Wrath is a huge hit, considering you can actually die at any moment versus a certain specs. Then again that may actually change and it may actually be possible to sit in Battle Stance in WoD without constantly being on edge about being randomly globalled.

[Archimtiros]

I should probably calm down with the posting...

I like the idea of being forced out of Defensive Stance to be Offensive. I think the whole point in having Stances is for you to judge the situation and use the stance best suited. However I think the way for this to be a MANDATORY thing is to change the way the stances work, not the abilities that can be used IN the stances.

It's been suggested time and time again but..

Defensive Stance - drastically reduce Rage Regeration, but on top of that... 25% damage reduction is huge. If it was only 10% or the difference between Battle and Defensive was 10% people would be more inclined to switch out. Currently switching from D stance to Battle is basically like wearing a huge banner reading "HIT ME" and mooning the enemy.

Worked in Braveheart

There is no easy way out with this though. I can't think of a single way in which warriors wouldn't sit in Defensive Stance. Even if it was only a 10% benefit.
The only thing I can think of is a damage dealt reduction in Defensive stance, but even then Warriors would simply sit in Defensive, pool rage and swap to Battle when they are ready to unload, before pooling again. We'd likely simply macro Battle Stance to CS and be done with it.