House Votes To Limit Spying On Americans

[Deleted]

"how to make a bomb"
"president"
"buy fertilizer"


RIP Rich

I will be honest and admit I often plan such things as a mental exercise, if Agents want to see me jacking it to porn and shitposting here they are welcome to it, I pity them.

[Deleted]

It wasn't meant as any sort of dig, I assumed you haven't read it, because you don't seem to grasp the types of things you could be compelled to do when motivated by a secret you don't want getting out to those important to you. It doesn't even have to be illegal. It could be personal. And the possibility to blackmail you to keep your secrets is very large. I don't know what secrets you have, but EVERYONE has private information they don't want other people, friends family, loved ones, their boss, their co-workers to find out. What if an entity wanted you to do something for them, such as inform on your neighbors? All they need for leverage is the fact you had a n affair, or that you took office supplies home, or something else really stupid and small. The government has already been in new reports trying to blackmail people with their porn history. I mean its really stupid to get blackmailed over that, it would never work for me, I would admit I watch porn, but some people wouldn't want their boss or family to know that info, and they would do anything to keep it private. That is why the government spying on people is wrong. You might not be doing anything illegal, but the prospect of embarrassing you to the people in your life might be enough to influence you to do what they wanted you to do.

Well, presumably if they can find out all your personal info, they don't need you to inform on your neighbours because they could just spy on them themselves for one. But like... I don't really have anything private that I wouldn't want others to know, I mean... I try to be honest with other people about who I am, you know? Like, I don't tell my family what kind of porn I watch, but if they asked, I'd probably tell them. I wouldn't voluntarily give out like a sex tape to my family, but if someone threatened to leak this to my family... eh... I mean, they'd probably be as uninterested as I am in it?

Affairs are bad, taking office supplies home is bad. If you don't want these actual bad things to be used against you, then don't do them in the first place. Yes, taking office supplies home is stupid and small, and if it's actually a stupid and small thing you've done then who's going to care. If you forgot to put a pen back on your desk and took it home with you, it's hardly blackmail material. If you've been stealing cleaning supplies and selling them, well you deserve to get blackmailed about that, to be honest =/

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Is that you in the profile image? Random question.

With the rise in popularity and power of big data you can bet your biscuits, cookies in England right?, that it is being analyzed from every single angle and being filed and calculated against historic data to predict future trends. It may be on a server but it IS used.

Yes, that's me.

And I don't really have a problem with my data being used to predict future trends? Like, if it makes us all better prepared for something to come, then great, I guess? Like, what kind of bad stuff are we talking about here that we wouldn't want our data to be used for?

[nôrps]

Well, presumably if they can find out all your personal info, they don't need you to inform on your neighbours because they could just spy on them themselves for one. But like... I don't really have anything private that I wouldn't want others to know, I mean... I try to be honest with other people about who I am, you know? Like, I don't tell my family what kind of porn I watch, but if they asked, I'd probably tell them. I wouldn't voluntarily give out like a sex tape to my family, but if someone threatened to leak this to my family... eh... I mean, they'd probably be as uninterested as I am in it?

Affairs are bad, taking office supplies home is bad. If you don't want these actual bad things to be used against you, then don't do them in the first place. Yes, taking office supplies home is stupid and small, and if it's actually a stupid and small thing you've done then who's going to care. If you forgot to put a pen back on your desk and took it home with you, it's hardly blackmail material. If you've been stealing cleaning supplies and selling them, well you deserve to get blackmailed about that, to be honest =/

So you think the government should be able to blackmail people to influence them to do their bidding? If you are ok with that, then I really have no further point to make. I just don't agree. I agree stealing and cheating are wrong, and people who do so deserve to be caught, fired, broken up with, whatever, I jsut don't think the government having & using that information to influence private citizen behavior is a good thing.

[Gheld]

I will be honest and admit I often plan such things as a mental exercise, if Agents want to see me jacking it to porn and shitposting here they are welcome to it, I pity them.

Speak for yourself. They are not welcome to watch me jacking off. I don't care what you care about or not. You only speak for yourself.

[Titan2k10]

" Like, what kind of bad stuff are we talking about here that we wouldn't want our data to be used for?"

Great question. My response will probably get me labeled as this or that but just understand that I highly value my privacy.

Something as simple as ordering a firearm to be shipped to a local FFL or if someone was emailing me about political hot topics with those trigger words. Im simply enjoying a right afforded to me in the constitution with the first and having what I consider to be an intellectual conversation. Why should I be made a target because of that? Why should I be flagged as a potential threat because of that?

Edit: I will neither confirm nor deny taking some paperclips home from the office

[Deleted]

Speak for yourself. They are not welcome to watch me jacking off. I don't care what you care about or not. You only speak for yourself.

I never spoke for you, I only ever used I and ME.

[Gheld]

I never spoke for you, I only ever used I and ME.

Well unless you are boasting about your exhibitionism I see little other purpose to your statement.

[Titan2k10]

You're doing it all wrong. You need to upload videos of you masturbating and fill the description with things like "I reveal my secret plans to overthrow America and destroy democracy."

Hahaha. That is good.

[Deleted]

" Like, what kind of bad stuff are we talking about here that we wouldn't want our data to be used for?"

Great question. My response will probably get me labeled as this or that but just understand that I highly value my privacy.

Something as simple as ordering a firearm to be shipped to a local FFL or if someone was emailing me about political hot topics with those trigger words. Im simply enjoying a right afforded to me in the constitution with the first and having what I consider to be an intellectual conversation. Why should I be made a target because of that? Why should I be flagged as a potential threat because of that?

Edit: I will neither confirm nor deny taking some paperclips home from the office

Would such small things really get you flagged? I'd think they'd be flagging half the population if that was the case. Which defeats the point of flags. It's only worthwhile if your flags are very specific, and very serious - otherwise there is still too much data to have a person look through.

I mean, imagine even if every theft was reported in advance, minority report style. Only thefts, but all thefts - from stealing a snickers from the 7/11 to robbing a bank. How many of these could you actually stop? How many people would you have to have reading through the reports of thefts-about-to-happen to pick out the important ones and get people there to stop them.

On the other hand, imagine if you had reports of all school shootings about-to-happen. They happen more like once a week instead of once a minute, the amount of data is much much smaller, you could easilly do something about it.

So if they're deciding what's going to trigger a flag, is it going to be "someone sends an email discussing obama's latest fuckup on this-and-that" or "someone bought a gun (how many guns are bought in the us?)" or is it going to be "Person with history of religious extremism purchases large quantities of explosive ingredients" or "high school age student buys 2000 bullets, and hunting knife".

Lots of people bitching about political stuff, not many high school students with an arsenal, and not many religious extremists buying explosives.

[Deleted]

Well unless you are boasting about your exhibitionism I see little other purpose to your statement.

The point is that they will always spy on you, you cannot prevent it unless you stay off the grid.

[Austilias]

A good move; though I doubt it will do much in terms of inspiring the US Government to once again respect the constitution upon which it is founded to a serious degree. As to those who honestly see nothing wrong with their privacy being invaded, then i'd probably suggest even a terse reading of George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four as well as Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. As to those who have read such works of literature and still adopt a laissez-faire attitude regarding things such as their personal freedoms/right to privacy/etc, it would seem that whilst having the ability; they would lack the ability to understand.

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The point is that they will always spy on you, you cannot prevent it unless you stay off the grid.

This sort of defeatism doesn't really do much to help the situation, however. It's tantamount to a North Korean proclaiming that the Kim Dynasty will always rule their nation, and that it is pointless to believe otherwise. That may well be true; but the only way in which that proclamation would be a certainty, is if everyone truly believed it. To use a WoW example, it would be like the Pandaren proclaiming that there place in the world would always be in the service of the Mogu. There'd have been no uprising, nor would they have overthrown their oppressive slavers, if all of them bought into that line of thinking.

[Deleted]

A good move; though I doubt it will do much in terms of inspiring the US Government to once again respect the constitution upon which it is founded to a serious degree. As to those who honestly see nothing wrong with their privacy being invaded, then i'd probably suggest even a terse reading of George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four as well as Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. As to those who have read such works of literature and still adopt a laissez-faire attitude regarding things such as their personal freedoms/right to privacy/etc, it would seem that whilst having the ability; they would lack the ability to understand.

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This sort of defeatism doesn't really do much to help the situation, however. It's tantamount to a North Korean proclaiming that the Kim Dynasty will always rule their nation, and that it is pointless to believe otherwise. That may well be true; but the only way in which that proclamation would be a certainty, is if everyone truly believed it. To use a WoW example, it would be like the Pandaren proclaiming that there place in the world would always be in the service of the Mogu. There'd have been no uprising, nor would they have overthrown their oppressive slavers, if all of them bought into that line of thinking.

Ok, tell me your solution to stop it.

[Deleted]

This sort of defeatism doesn't really do much to help the situation, however. It's tantamount to a North Korean proclaiming that the Kim Dynasty will always rule their nation, and that it is pointless to believe otherwise. That may well be true; but the only way in which that proclamation would be a certainty, is if everyone truly believed it. To use a WoW example, it would be like the Pandaren proclaiming that there place in the world would always be in the service of the Mogu. There'd have been no uprising, nor would they have overthrown their oppressive slavers, if all of them bought into that line of thinking.

The difference being that North Korea is an awful place to live, and the rest of the world isn't really. I don't know the wow example, but you are talking about oppressive slavers being overthrown, so I presume they lived in a shitty place, and now don't. That's not the case here. We live in a good place, and overthrowing surveilance laws only puts us in a place where crime is harder to prevent and punish etc.

[Austilias]

Ok, tell me your solution to stop it.

You don't need to propose a solution in order to point out a problem that needs addressing. If this proposal being voted on in the House passes however, and is enforced; then it's a step in the right direction. The alternative is seeing things such as this Orwellian poster popping up and becoming commonplace/normal (which Boris strangely seemed to think was a good idea):

[Deleted]

Well, it is good to see that citizens won't be suspected and monitored of illegal acts, unless they actually show any sign of it. I would say it is a good sign, because it really did seem extreme when it was revealed that they were/could essentially spying on everybody without any reason.

Hopefully this isn't just PR, and an actual step away from treating every citizen as a suspected criminal.

[Annoying]

Like Googling something that triggers red flags because you're curious about how things work?

I can't tell you how many times I've looked up possibly shady things just because I want to know how they work. Nuclear weapons and how they work are fantastic.

[Gheld]

The point is that they will always spy on you, you cannot prevent it unless you stay off the grid.

And my point is history is full of terrible atrocities that all begin with somebody saying "Well I'm not doing anything wrong so I don't care.".

So when the world turns into a shit hole and we have to turn to cannibalism to survive the first people that will end up on my plate are the people who sold everybody out with that smug complacent attitude.

[Austilias]

The difference being that North Korea is an awful place to live, and the rest of the world isn't really. I don't know the wow example, but you are talking about oppressive slavers being overthrown, so I presume they lived in a shitty place, and now don't. That's not the case here. We live in a good place, and overthrowing surveilance laws only puts us in a place where crime is harder to prevent and punish etc.

We live in a good place, for now. I'd wager, and not unjustifiably so, that it will become considerably worse as we are subject to increasing levels of surveillance. That the House in America, for example, is proposing to limit/reduce it; is a step in the right direction.

[Deleted]

You don't need to propose a solution in order to point out a problem that needs addressing. If this proposal being voted on in the House passes however, and is enforced; then it's a step in the right direction. The alternative is seeing things such as this Orwellian poster popping up and becoming commonplace/normal (which Boris strangely seemed to think was a good idea):

Spying will never stop, it just becomes a black OP, smaller budget sure but you cannot stop it.

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And my point is history is full of terrible atrocities that all begin with somebody saying "Well I'm not doing anything wrong so I don't care.".

So when the world turns into a shit hole and we have to turn to cannibalism to survive the first people that will end up on my plate are the people who sold everybody out with that smug complacent attitude.

And what are you doing to stop it?

[DEATHETERNAL]

Until someone can point out any actual damage caused by such spying, I see no reason to limit current activity. No constitutional rights are being violated as the right to privacy is a contrived invention of the Supermen Court found nowhere in the Constitution, and the Fourth Amendment does not apply to electronic signals.