Why doesnt a game's community matter anymore?

[tiffy33]

In the old games like Ultima Online, Everquest, and Dark Age of Camelot it seemed like community mattered A LOT more than it does now. In those games your reputation was everything. If you were a horrible player you got no groups, no gear, and stayed broke. But these days you could be the worlds worst gamer and still join LFR and load up on raid gear. Also the worst part is that being bad seems to be an acceptable play style. If you criticize someone for being bad everyone jumps down your throat calling you an "Elitist".

Also it seems like trading isnt what it used to be. In Ultima Online trading was done around the crafting areas. Smiths would set up shops around forges and advertise their services selling weapons, armor, and doing repairs. Alchemists and Scribes would sit outside mage shops selling potions and spellbooks. People would also set up vendors in either their own house or someone else who owned a large house in a highly traveled area. In Everquest's early days people went to East Commonlands and inside a long tunnel would be 100s of players buying and selling their wares. In Dark Age of camelot again crafters could be found around forges and spellcrafting tables selling their goods. Also vendors at the houses sold stuff while they were offline. Entropia Univers has another really great way of selling goods similar to Ultima Online where players opened up shops in malls and players would roam around the mall and see what everyone had for sale.

Also you actually had to advertise in order to sell stuff. in Ultima Online I used to drop recall runes for my shop around the banks in popular cities. People could pick them up and recall to my house and buy from my vendors. If you didnt have a house like I said earlier you stood around banks or crafting areas advertising your wares for people to see. But now everyone just goes to the Auction House and 5 seconds later a trade is done. You never see the person you are buying from. You never visit several shops looking for the best deal. It doesnt matter if the guy selling the item is a bad player because you never deal with them face to face. You just click on AH, type in what you want, and BAM its in the mail or whatever. Its like they want to remove the multiplayer from MMO and just make them all first person shooters with an AH.

[Hyve]

The "community" hasn't gotten any better, nor worse, it's just you're seeing more of it these days.

Before like you said, there was a small community so you learnt quickly who to ignore, but with random matchmaking far more common, and with more connectivity to random players from all over Europe, you're bound to think there are more bad eggs when you're exposed to more eggs in general.

[tiffy33]

well what about the lack of trading options? like having player run shops or setting up at a forge to sell your goods? I wouldnt mind seeing a limit on number of auctions you can have on an AH at one time. Like maybe 10 at a time to encourage other ways of trading.

[WintersLegion]

I would and probably most others do as well very few people want to stand around trying to get people to buy their stuff if I wanted to do that I would open up a store in real life not in a game and a lot of those games where you opened up a shop all you did was choose what you wanted to sell in it the price and than go afk.

[tiffy33]

I would and probably most others do as well very few people want to stand around trying to get people to buy their stuff if I wanted to do that I would open up a store in real life not in a game and a lot of those games where you opened up a shop all you did was choose what you wanted to sell in it the price and than go afk.

yup thats all it was. set your prices and go AFK. but it was cool wandering around player run shopping malls with dozens of vendors checking what each of them had for sale. I used to always buy from certain people, every single time, but now you dont even know who you are buying from.

[Deleted]

The "community" hasn't gotten any better, nor worse, it's just you're seeing more of it these days.

Before like you said, there was a small community so you learnt quickly who to ignore, but with random matchmaking far more common, and with more connectivity to random players from all over Europe, you're bound to think there are more bad eggs when you're exposed to more eggs in general.

while this is true, let's not forget the golden rule

[Deleted]

These games had an abysmal community compared to modern day MMOs. And, in case you're not aware of this, the more people - the more *&$&T%^*^%% among them.

[Offshoreguy]

while this is true, let's not forget the golden rule

I about blew soda all over my computer when I saw that picture, sadly it is so true with the way most people behave in a game or other online feature.

[Hyve]

while this is true, let's not forget the golden rule
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...25/699/4fc.jpg

Can't argue with that, it's 100% true.

[Fencers]

Community only mattered in an era where there was less connectivity between users over the internet. And less of an "internet" in a general sense.

[kail]

It's the convenience that is affecting the MMOs and the community. Few have the time to wait around selling items, the AH is just far more convenient while achieving the same thing. People don't have the time to post their "lfm" and check to see if the players are good or not. Community still exists among the MMOs, but mostly among the guild instead of the server.

EVE has the potential for server fame, I often saw names posted in the forums if they did something stupid or dickish. That and their economy is one of my favorite implemented among MMOs, where the AH system is location based.

[NuLogic]

well what about the lack of trading options? like having player run shops or setting up at a forge to sell your goods? I wouldnt mind seeing a limit on number of auctions you can have on an AH at one time. Like maybe 10 at a time to encourage other ways of trading.

It would take forever to find what you're looking for.....no thanks. I don't want to go backwards I want to go forward.

[Moogie423]

Generally all MMO communities have gotten much worse in the last 5-10 years or so. The major difference is before the major proliferation of the internet, most people still had learned to be kind or face reprisal. Once the anonymous nature of the internet took hold, more and more people either forgot this, or never learned it to begin with. This is why you generally find that the majority of asshats and trolls are under the age of 25, everyone older knows of the time when you could get your teeth knocked out for talking shit. The problem goes much deeper than this though, so I digress.

But yea, lack of accountability generally breeds bad communities. Take a look at games that don't have random matchmaking, their communities are usually a step above those that do have randoms. Not a big step, but still noticeable. Fun fact, I first started playing wow on my friend's second account, when I got my own account, I chose to delete my old character rather than let my friend's son play it due to the fact he was a young teen who would have ruined the good reputation I had built up.

[Underverse]

People don't have to rely on each other nearly as much as they used to, so there is little incentive to form friendships and acquaintances.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

while this is true, let's not forget the golden rule

Absolutely.

It's not communities are getting better or worse, but that now with the modern day generation of children who curse about each other's moms over Call of Duty, they now are coming over to the real communities, and - because of the rapid adoption of forums and such - are much more noticeable.

[Asmekiel]

That image isn't true, the "normal person" should be "fuckwad" too. Anonimity doesn't change people, it simply shows who they really are.

[Deleted]

In the old games like Ultima Online, Everquest, and Dark Age of Camelot it seemed like community mattered A LOT more than it does now. In those games your reputation was everything. If you were a horrible player you got no groups, no gear, and stayed broke. But these days you could be the worlds worst gamer and still join LFR and load up on raid gear. Also the worst part is that being bad seems to be an acceptable play style. If you criticize someone for being bad everyone jumps down your throat calling you an "Elitist".

I think one of the things that somewhat changed, was that these games/communities were often smaller, and also the game itself would often be smaller in size, so you'd more often trip over the same people. Not your reputation still matters quite a lot, good raiders will get instant spots, and trolls/non-dps'er/in general just bad people, will less often get spots in a raid, dungeons etc.. It isn't gone completely but it is a little harder to keep up with, especially with something like LFR and LFG, which is unfortunate because in theory those two are amazing tools, yet in practice people misuse it. I think the part about being bad is accepted; I remember running 40 man raids, and I remember half the team being god awful, and I think we sorta accepted at this point that people aren't going to be equally good. About the elitist calling, I do see this, and I also see a lot of people just agreeing, so I think it is a 50/50 in a community how they treat such behaviour.

Also it seems like trading isnt what it used to be. In Ultima Online trading was done around the crafting areas. Smiths would set up shops around forges and advertise their services selling weapons, armor, and doing repairs. Alchemists and Scribes would sit outside mage shops selling potions and spellbooks. People would also set up vendors in either their own house or someone else who owned a large house in a highly traveled area. In Everquest's early days people went to East Commonlands and inside a long tunnel would be 100s of players buying and selling their wares. In Dark Age of camelot again crafters could be found around forges and spellcrafting tables selling their goods. Also vendors at the houses sold stuff while they were offline. Entropia Univers has another really great way of selling goods similar to Ultima Online where players opened up shops in malls and players would roam around the mall and see what everyone had for sale.

I think it comes down to convenience and also that no MMO, has really gone the same design route when it comes to how players trade and deal with eachother. And I will say it is somewhat great and makes things look and feel more real and natural but on the other side of the coin, it also comes a big mess and you'd spend far too much time finding a cheap price for things.

Also you actually had to advertise in order to sell stuff. in Ultima Online I used to drop recall runes for my shop around the banks in popular cities. People could pick them up and recall to my house and buy from my vendors. If you didnt have a house like I said earlier you stood around banks or crafting areas advertising your wares for people to see. But now everyone just goes to the Auction House and 5 seconds later a trade is done. You never see the person you are buying from. You never visit several shops looking for the best deal. It doesnt matter if the guy selling the item is a bad player because you never deal with them face to face. You just click on AH, type in what you want, and BAM its in the mail or whatever. Its like they want to remove the multiplayer from MMO and just make them all first person shooters with an AH.

I agree to a certain aspect but really, you might as well talk to a NPC at that point, it really came down to the bare essentials of conversation, and I think they switched away from it, because people would spend hours doing essentially nothing but spam /selling 10 bear asses, only 10 silver. And it was somewhat of a waste when there was a world to explore and play in (with other people), instead of standing in one spot for 7 hours pressing ENTER - ctrl V - ENTER, and respond to peoples whispers etc.

So communities still do matter, it might be a little harder to see, especially because guilds took their place. Like minded people can have their chat for themselves and they can play with each other and not all the other people that they don't like.

[Gevoth]

That image isn't true, the "normal person" should be "fuckwad" too. Anonimity doesn't change people, it simply shows who they really are.

I completely agree.

[Deleted]

This is actually wrong. You can't blame younger players for shit communities as though they all shout and curse at each other playing the one FPS people like to rag on. The overall communities were shit to begin with.

To add to this point, these kids learned it from somewhere; granted some of them learned it from their parents/friends/school but there are quite a few of them that came in with a nice attitude, maybe a little ignorant/lacking knowledge but alas they are children/kids, and they learned all the cursing, screaming, smearing from the existing community and that being adults. I for one sure as hell have had more problems with actual adults acting like children, and the children just being silent or reasonable, anecdotal I know but I can only report on own experience when talking about game communities.

[Deleted]

Spot on really. They may learn that behaviour elsewhere first but many people come into WoW and learn how others behave and so end up thinking it is acceptable to behave like a "fuckwad" as the pic above calls it. Just look at how people behave towards their fellow players, and ex players, on this very forum. People treat others like shit.

Well it comes down to consequence, and in far too few games is there any consequence whatsoever (at least here on MMO-C people get banned for certain behaviour). And of course we will likely come to the point of LFR and LFG, and how that ruined it all, and how before they were implemented we lived in a golden age of good behaviour and people doing extremely well... Except if you were in the dungeon and you by accident had gotten a rotten apple, you were pretty much stuck with them, since getting a new one into a dungeon was a excruciating task, and even if you remembered that guy there were plenty more also acting in such a way.
And even I see so many people say how such people would be branded in chat etc., and really, people have different parameters to what is good and what is bad behaviour, so all this name dropping essential became white noise (to me at least). You could pick out the worst of the worst but then there were a lot of people that were 50/50, and it would be a risk to take them but you often didn't have any choice if you wanted to run a dungeon within the next hour.