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  1. #21
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    10man is such a shitty unfun raid format in general, no need to make LFR even worse than it already is. I'm glad that 10man raiding is being removed soon.
    10 man raiding isn't being removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Are you kidding? 25 man is the shitty version. It doesn't even feel tactictal, it's just a big zerg.

    Yes 10 man LFR would be 10x better. The ONLY downside is longer queues, but big deal. If someone is underperforming they are found out and called out much easier.
    LFR isn't meant for organized, well-run, well-performing groups. It never has been. Let them underperform.



  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    LFR isn't meant for organized, well-run, well-performing groups. It never has been. Let them underperform.
    If I had been more tactful, this is how I would have expressed it.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    All I can see is down sides.

    And there is no way for the game to force "accountability". That's a social thing.
    How about giving the community the ability to actually hold people accountable. Currently the /votekick system is way to favorable for people who literally don't do anything and you can't kick them even after that time has expired if they don't roll on a green item that dropped, because can't kick while loot is being rolled on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    LFR isn't meant for organized, well-run, well-performing groups. It never has been. Let them underperform.
    Underperforming a bit should be fine, doing literally 0 dps or 0 healing isn't. Creating a burden on others because you are just to lazy to move your character out of some stuff detracts from the enjoyment of others.
    Last edited by Utinil; 2014-06-24 at 03:44 PM.

  4. #24
    Nope, it'd just make life harder. Currently a relatively low proportional number of players can carry an LFR group. If it's 10-man it would take a larger relative percentage of players to carry. Add in that it takes the same number of tanks for 10m as 25m and you also end up with longer queue times. All in all it would be a really bad change for LFR.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Utinil View Post
    How about giving the community the ability to actually hold people accountable. Currently the /votekick system is way to favorable for people who literally don't do anything and you can't kick them even after that time has expired if they don't roll on a green item that dropped, because can't kick while loot is being rolled on.



    Underperforming a bit should be fine, doing literally 0 dps or 0 healing isn't. Creating a burden on others because you are just to lazy to move your character out of some stuff detracts from the enjoyment of others.

    I see people getting kicked in LFR all the time for drastically underperforming/autoattacking or constantly going AFK and not informing the raid. It mainly boils down to does the raid feel this guy or girl needs the boot; sometimes they don't care enough cause one or two people don't really matter unless they are a tank or healer. I think they just need to go over the rules for being able to kick a player again; I think it should just be during boss fights that you can't kick someone.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    10 man raiding isn't being removed.



    LFR isn't meant for organized, well-run, well-performing groups. It never has been. Let them underperform.
    Let the Afkers afk! Great game design!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Nope, it'd just make life harder. Currently a relatively low proportional number of players can carry an LFR group. If it's 10-man it would take a larger relative percentage of players to carry. Add in that it takes the same number of tanks for 10m as 25m and you also end up with longer queue times. All in all it would be a really bad change for LFR.
    Actually it'd be easier to carry a group. Literally 1 good healer and 2 decent DPS could carry a below average 10 man LFR.

  7. #27
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utinil View Post
    Underperforming a bit should be fine, doing literally 0 dps or 0 healing isn't. Creating a burden on others because you are just to lazy to move your character out of some stuff detracts from the enjoyment of others.
    I wasn't saying 0 dps or 0 healing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Let the Afkers afk! Great game design!
    I didn't say AFK. I said underperform. I get tired of doing LFR on my alts to see people say "I did 180k in that gear, kick him" and the guy is doing 140k. Omg, he's so terrible.



  8. #28
    Nope since LFR is issue it self.

  9. #29
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    LFR is the part where the community either polices themselves or not. If LFR is too shitty, too bad, too unfixable...I guess fFLEX would be the logical step to run

    Better loot. nicer environment and sites that help you find (or create) a group according to your speccs and preferred time. If that is too much...I fear you have to suffer LFR as it is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    10man is such a shitty unfun raid format in general, no need to make LFR even worse than it already is. I'm glad that 10man raiding is being removed soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Are you kidding? 25 man is the shitty version. It doesn't even feel tactictal, it's just a big zerg.
    Always nice to have opinions like that back to back. Sums up the great divide on so many issues.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  10. #30
    LFR should be 40 man. All of the problems during the raid wouldn't bother me if I didn't have to wait 1hr to get in.

    You could make the argument SoO LFR would even work cross faction.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I didn't say AFK. I said underperform. I get tired of doing LFR on my alts to see people say "I did 180k in that gear, kick him" and the guy is doing 140k. Omg, he's so terrible.
    This 1000 times. I find it so funny how there seems to be so much more elitism in LFR which is the most casual of difficulties. Likely becuase it's random so people feel free to treat people they don't know like shit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  11. #31
    Any Automated group finding tool that allows players to be anonymous and have no social pressure will have a toxic environment. Remove LFR and leave raiding up to people who want to do it resolves the toxic environment. People can cry and complain they dont have time for organized raiding but they can find a few group of friends using Open raid or OQueue to deal with their hard schedule. My guild runs with some people who have an odd schedule all the time. They jump in every few weeks when they can if not they run with other guilds. No big problem. However often you will fine LFR heroes come up with any excuses why they cannot find and make friends in an MMO and think they are some special snowflake. In Truth the Social part of MMOs it what set them apart from mutliplayer games and single player games. But these LFR heroes push to make MMOs nothing more than a single player game.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by helzbelz View Post
    Any Automated group finding tool that allows players to be anonymous and have no social pressure will have a toxic environment. Remove LFR and leave raiding up to people who want to do it resolves the toxic environment. People can cry and complain they dont have time for organized raiding but they can find a few group of friends using Open raid or OQueue to deal with their hard schedule.
    The community is the worse judge of them all, which is why LFR is so "toxic".

    Finding a suitable group is harder than you think. The problem is that the entry requirement is determined by the players. Missing or not the right gems? No invite. Enchants missing? No invite. Does not meet the minimum entry requirements? No invite. No legendary cloak? No invite. The list can go on. I PUG raids during WoTLK and the entry requirement just rises as the game progress, even when ICC was nerfed. So the entry requirement should be lowered, not raised.

    You could argue that if the player is not prepared to put in some effort, then raiding is not for them. Which I partially agree. Then Blizzards needs to provides these players with alternative content that is not raiding and provide some form of reward for character progression. And these contents needs to last as much as regularly raid.

  13. #33
    The Lightbringer Ciddy's Avatar
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    I think that would just make things worse. It's harder to carry people in smaller raids, and LFR is all about carrying people. If anything, I think the opposite (add more slots) would probably be a good thing.

    It's sorta like how 40-man raids worked in Classic WoW (aside from the obvious harder stuff like Naxx/AQ40). One person could afk for most of the raid, and nobody else would even notice.
    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    Sometimes you gotta stop sniffing used schoolgirl panties and start being a fucking samurai.

  14. #34
    The Patient DoubleT's Avatar
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    Those 7 players doing jack shit represent 28% of the raid on 25 man. On 10 man, they represent 70%.

    I think it's pretty easy to assume that the scaling and proving grounds requirement in wod will be the appropriate way to deal with this.

  15. #35
    Wouldn't work with queue times

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    10man is such a shitty unfun raid format in general, no need to make LFR even worse than it already is. I'm glad that 10man raiding is being removed soon.
    I much prefer 10m over 25m.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    Wouldn't work with queue times
    And yet 25 man was supposed to resolve that issue in the first place. Which did work at first then just got worse because it didnt address the reason behind the issue in the first place and actually fed it.

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