No, you're just sick of it /thread
Good raid. Just too long. It's why even ICC/DS got boring.
Siege of Orgrimmar isn't a lazy or bad raid.
There's lots of purely subjective opinions, but I think just from sheer lack of effort, lack of creativity and poor design Dragon Soul, Trial of the Crusader and Molten Core are the worst raids in WoW.
Ruby Sanctum has to be the worst, if it counts. DS a close second. I liked ToT better than SoO, but I think overall SoO feels about the same as ICC. Half of the bosses feel like fillers while the other half are actually interesting.
The raid is not bad. A lot of fun fights, but after 40 week there are no fun fights/raids.
Blizzard said they would not create a new Dragon Soul, which is true. Siege of Orgrimmar is worse.
DS was the worst raid ever. I actually liked Trial of the Crusader. The champions fight was awesome.
ps: molten core was amazing for its time. It was the first and there was nothing like it in WoW. It was a perfect first raid to get our feet wet besides UBRS.
From a lore perspective, I really liked SoO. I'm really, really tired of it though.
You now stand before the Countess.
A story of Firsts from around the world:
Well, the first 8 bosses were a complete joke from day1, very easy and most of them not interesting at all. It made the instance longer than it shouldve been. Also progression this tier was ''different'' (in a negative way) from other tiers because the time spent in the 1st week actually was a really big deal because you were able to down so many bosses in that week (8-10, compared to the 4-5 in ToT). Time spent raiding gave you a huge advantage because the 1st real boss was siege(12th), in ToT you'd hit a wall at durumu (7th). Obviously Time spent raiding will always be a big deal, but in this tier it mattered alot more than it should have.
Thats the number 1 reason I hate this instance, the way progression worked out. Also like I said its longer than it shouldve been. Does it make that the worst raid? No
"i only ran this raid a few times like lfr flex and I hate it"
Nope. 40+ heroic kills of most bosses on 3 characters. Best raid this expac.
Not the worst raid, but over rated IMO.
I wouldn't say it's the worst raid but I have to admit that it didn't really excite me. It became rather bland quite quickly - largely because it could and should have been so much more. It's a shame that we ended up seeing so much focus placed upon the orc and human conflict when ultimately it was the night elves, worgen, trolls, forsaken and blood elves who suffered the most at Garrosh's hands.
not the worst, more like a filler raid. definately not endofexpansion quality one would expect (bt/sunwell/aq/..)
SoO needed a few more location for it to be really that good. It reused so much location we know by heart that it wasn't really a new thing for us. Plus the almost a year it's been running : yeah, not the worst but not the best too.
Edit : But I do think they did a very good job from a story point of view. It wraps up the MoP and give it closure. I was well done.
The inclusion of such a significant mission from the RTS series was definately a good choice The execution needed some work; that's all.
While Diogenes was relaxing in the sunlight in the morning, Alexander, thrilled to meet the famous philosopher, asked if there was any favour he might do for him. Diogenes replied, "Yes, stand out of my sunlight". Alexander then declared, "If I were not Alexander, then I should wish to be Diogenes", to which Diogenes replied, "If I were not Diogenes, I should also wish to be Diogenes."
I'm rather tired of siege to be honest.
It's hard to muster the effort to keep clearing it.
I despise how there are only two fights in the entire instance that don't have a tank swap mechanic in an attempt to force 2 tanks on you. Even though I have successfully solo tanked 10 of the 14 encounters, it still offends the piss out of me that all but two of these encounters are designed with completely uncreative, boring ass tank swap mechanics that are nothing more than "taunt on debuff" with no other inventiveness or creativity or anything else to it. It is simplistic and stupid and i'm not a fan. Now this has been a growing trend for a while now, TOT had a lot of that bullshit too, but SOO is guilty of it more than any other. I prefer fights are designed so you WANT to bring two tanks to make it easier, not because you HAVE to bring two tanks because one will inevitably die from the debuff getting too high on them or some other BS like that.
Mogushan vaults actually had some creative and sensible shit in it. The very first boss encounter of the expansion, the 3 guard dogs, that was a brilliant fight. No bullshit debuffs that might as well be sad faces that say "TAUNT WHEN YOU SEE THIS", you actually had to think a little about how to handle the dogs and how to do it properly. You juggled that shit around and made it work. It had interesting mechanics to make you want to have two tanks. Elegon and the final boss are also good examples of fights with no tank debuff that simply encouraged you to have 2 tanks simply by design. And hell, there was even a fight in the raid that EVERYONE solo tanked because there was no reason to have a second tank. The game needs more shit like that, more solo tanks. I'd be happy if 20-man raids became 1 tank raids personally. I hate having to work with another tank to get shit done.
However despite my grief with siege, it is still a hundred times more enjoyable than Dragon Soul. I absolutely hated that raid. I hated it the first time through it, i hated it the many many many months of clearing it after the fact, i hated it even after we had long had our characters fully decked out in heroic gear, all had the mounts, and had no further reason to step foot in that hell hole again. And I still hate it to this day.
And nothing will ever be as horrible as TOC. When that shit came out, I had to clear it 4 times every week on just ONE character. 10-man normal, 10-man heroic, 25-man normal, and 25-man heroic. This was the only raid that wow has ever had that allowed you to clear it at both sizes and both difficulties all on different lockouts. The horrors of clearing that shit 4 times a week trying to gear people up is why blizzard created that BS "flex lockout" system towards the end of wrath so they all shared the same lockout, but it was interchangeable with every other difficulty and size. Once enabled during ICC, it was the first time you could kill a boss on 10-man, then switch to 25 to kill the next boss, then switch to 10 heroic to kill the next boss, and so on.
TOC was horrible just because it was a lazy design with all fights except the last taking place in the same damn room (not to mention a 5-man dungeon that also took place in the same ONE room), lazy armor designs and instead of having each class have it's own armor, they made all cloth wearers look the same, all leather wearers look the same, all plate wearers look the same, etc. And to top off the shit cake that was TOC, serious guilds had to clear it 4 times every week on every character involved in raiding.
TOC was the worst raid ever made.
Dragon Soul was the second worst raid ever made.
Siege got rather old and has annoying qualities, but it's not that bad.
Last edited by Dasani; 2014-07-16 at 08:36 AM.
I like ponies and I really don't care what you have to say about that.
SoO is pretty good IMO.
- Many bosses and locations (remember pre-Cata raids usually didn't change the scenery even once).
- Many different styles of bosses and mechanics.
- Good but no over-usage of extra power bar and extra action button.
- Many irregular boss rooms, as opposed to the overused simple round or square room.
- Usable environment in some fights.
- Many mechanics have to be played by everyone in the raid; you can't dump a player or two to do the job while the rest just stands there doing nothing special.
- Great difficulty curve over all, though Shamans HC are certainly a spike in 10m.
- It's the endgame raid too freaking long. We've been there.
- No optional bosses or selectable boss order. Though I see why a straight layout had been chosen for this raid, options and motivation are always good.
- Garrosh and the Klaxxi are pretty much the only known villains in the raid if you didn't play Horde, and yes Garrosh feels nowhere like confronting Illidan or Arthas did. Naturally for Alliance players 80% of the raid feels like filler bosses.
- Agreed that for a climax it feels a bit underwhelming, while not really bad, but that's what you get when you put the war Horde vs. Alliance into the center as people wished for. Only more proof that antagonizing a player faction doesn't work out that well.
- On top of that Blizzard needs to learn to implement a story that doesn't end different for each faction. As Alliance, Alliance wins. As Horde, Horde wins. And this doesn't only go for the raid's story. It's everywhere in MoP. What is this? Are we catering so much that we can't even have a clear winner at the end? Anything would be better.
OK back to the raid. Worst raid? Far from it. But it's clear that our human brains always want the latest bad experience to be the top worst one, which is close to a year of SoO. If it was shorter many wouldn't perceive it as "bad". But feel free to go compare it to abominations like TotC, DS, or yes even the boring sepia-colored bug nest that is AQ; SoO is so much better than those.
Last edited by The Kao; 2014-07-16 at 09:00 AM.
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