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  1. #1

    URGENT need of assistance Siegecrafter 10H

    Currently at like ~100 wipes and I don't feel we are getting anywhere. Dying to the same exact shit everytime. We can't seem to make it passed the 4th belt where empowered lasers etc come out. This is the order

    1 - kill mines
    2. Kill mines
    3. - laser
    4. mines (we wipe here constantly)

    I am desperate for help. The issue is not dps or damage it's simply surviving. I feel our dps is more than enough I just want to be able to survive. I'm on belt duty so I can't really tell what is going on down there but belt is going along perfectly for the most part. PLEASE help. Any advice you 14/14 H pros give me will be appreciated.

    I will post logs from tonight in a sec

    worldoflogs.com/reports/frhqqpsddrdc9bym/dashboard/?enc=bosses&boss=71504

    - - - Updated - - -

    We also have warcraft logs reports but the person logging seems to have forgotten to upload before he went to sleep. I will have those up tomorrow if that will help

    Comp is

    Hunter (solos first belt, on belts full time)
    Ret pally (even belts)
    Fury warrior (odd belts excluding first one which hunter solos)
    2 healer priest ( 1 holy and 1 disc i believe)
    rogue
    destro warlock
    ele shaman
    blood DK
    Prot paladin

    There is also a decently geared resto druid benched but he seems to die a bit too much compared to everyone else hence why hes benched.

    TL - DR - Our #1 main issue - surviving the fire phase.

    We made is past the fire phase once last week with the same comp (no fucking clue how)
    Last edited by Siege help fast; 2014-07-04 at 04:30 AM.

  2. #2
    Just tell your raiders to fucking step up and survive that phase, even if that means a neat 0 dps on the boss for that window of time.

    Ofc, dont forget using all your personal survival cds, even some externals (palas aura, shamans ancestral guide, holy priest hymn.... etc.)

    Sooo many ppl is getting Electrostatic Charge that are not your tanks. Tell them not to be so eager and wait a couple of seconds after the tank pulls so they dont get the debuff. If tanks dont get that first stack is high chances they're not killing the shredder in time.


    Dont know about all your raiders performance, but can give some advices for your prot paladin:

    1. He is doing his rotation wrong. He's priorizing judgement over crusader strike. He's damagin his HoPo geneartion a lot by doing so.
    2. His Shield of the Righteous uptime is ridiculous. He's around 25%, when should be _at least_ around 50%. Hell, he's at boss all the time, should have no downtimes.
    3. His eternal flame ticks are way to low for just being healing himself. That points he's using it under 5 stacks of bastion of glory. He shouldnt unless he's certain he's gonna die if not.
    4. His armory is in ret. If he would switch it to prot i'd give him some gearing advices. But seeing his numbers, he prolly has kinda low haste. With his 582 MUST be at 21250 haste. After that, priorize crit over mastery.
    5. Being "offtank" (killing only one shredder) he should go for Divine Purpose, not Holy Avenger. Hell, i even use DP being the main tank and have no issue killing it before 4th overcharge. Even before 3th if crits show.

  3. #3
    Field Marshal rodney's Avatar
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    You raiders must simply learn how to dodge encounter mechanics, if they are about to take a hit from missiles in magnet, they really should use personals and healthstone.

    Your healers should use some healing cds in this part of encounter - I am resto shaman and when empowered magnet in empowered laser (huh) starts Im popping healing tide, when it ends Im using Ascedance with Spiritwalker and spamming heals like mad (healing surges).. trying to keep everyone at max hp. Im also calling for devotion aura when empowered magnet is on and add is about to do third overload.

    Good thing is also to put Hand of Protection on some healer, saw blades can do him damage and knock back him.

    Its all about survivability, even if it would mean you wont be doing dmg during this mad phase.

  4. #4
    Old God Hyve's Avatar
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    One of the most important things on this boss, is to play properly and defensively. This boss has a stupidly low amount of Health compared to other bosses, so this is not a DPS race at all. It's entirely down to positioning, co-ordination and defensive play.

    Pushing the DPS as hard as you can on this fight will result in a wipe. Don't focus on the meters, and tell your raiders to do their jobs because they try to stroke their ePeen.

    Tactics > Damage is always the key to Heroic encounters. Can't do that, you're not a Heroic raider. Tell that to your Raiders.

  5. #5
    There's one thing you can do which will make the fight a million times easier.

    Stop killing mines on the belt and kill missiles EVERY time.

    We wasted 200+ wipes on killing mines and dealing with magnet + missiles etc and it's simply not needed. Especially with your comp. Your lock has nice aoe, ele shammy has sick aoe plus nice cc (capacitor totem and the slow totem don't remember it's name), dk can mass grip the mines back in place and even your priests have roots!

    Killing mines on the belt makes the fight MUCH MUCH harder than it needs to be Especially if people are derping and can't move from shit.
    Last edited by ItcheeBeard; 2014-07-04 at 09:31 AM.

    Welcome to WoD Please enjoy your stay!

  6. #6
    If you can kill it before belt 6 kill Mine > Mine > Magnet > Mine > Magnet.

    Then you only have to deal with laser and missiles. Missiles can be seen coming WAY ahead of time its so obvious how big the next line will be to pre move.

  7. #7
    The best advice I can give you is make sure you are using CDs during this phase, but not everything at once. You have rally, healing tide, AG, barrier, divine hymn. Use some of them there with some personals. If people are dying to fire, adjust your strategy a little. Are you guys standing on the edge where they cannot get hit by saw blades?

  8. #8
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    There's one thing you can do which will make the fight a million times easier.

    Stop killing mines on the belt and kill missiles EVERY time.

    We wasted 200+ wipes on killing mines and dealing with magnet + missiles etc and it's simply not needed. Especially with your comp. Your lock has nice aoe, ele shammy has sick aoe plus nice cc (capacitor totem and the slow totem don't remember it's name), dk can mass grip the mines back in place and even your priests have roots!

    Killing mines on the belt makes the fight MUCH MUCH harder than it needs to be Especially if people are derping and can't move from shit.
    I just want to add on that any Engineers in the raid can use EMP belt to stun mines as well. Mines are infinitely easier than missiles IMO, and you can easily survive one or two blowing up if your melee (if you have any, I didnt check) derp.

  9. #9
    Killing mines is just a bit meh in my opinion, the empowered laser and magnet together is pretty hard and I'm not sure why so many tactics encourage it. The way my guild does it is like so

    Missile -> Laser -> Missile -> Laser -> Missile -> Mines -> Laser -> Mines -> Laser -> Laser -> Missile -> Mines

    This leads to the following outcomes on the platform.
    1 - Overcharged mines, regular laser.
    2 - Overcharged missile, regular mines
    3 - Overcharged magnet, regular laser.
    4 - Overcharged mines, regular missile.
    5 - Overcharged magnet, regular mines.
    6 - Overcharged laser, regular mines.
    7 - Overcharged missile, regular mines.
    8 - Overcharged magnet, regular missile.
    9 - Overcharged laser, regular mines.
    10 - Overcharged mines, regular missile.
    11 - Overcharged missile, regular magnet.
    12 -Overcharged laser, regular magnet.

  10. #10
    Missile
    Missile
    Missile
    Missile
    Missile
    Mine (back)
    Missile
    Missile
    Laser (back)
    Missile

    The boss should be dead anyway but just in case :

    Missile
    Laser

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Animma View Post
    Killing mines is just a bit meh in my opinion, the empowered laser and magnet together is pretty hard and I'm not sure why so many tactics encourage it.
    Because there's an area about 1/5 of the room where there's zero fire and saw blades miss you during magnet.

    Welcome to WoD Please enjoy your stay!

  12. #12
    Ok so lots of recommendations to leaving mines up and killing turrets. We are kind of melee heavy and at any given time there are 2 melee and 2 ranged on the ground, I was told having mines up was a lot harder with a lot of melee in your group.

    I am just a little worried about completely changing strat just to go another 100 wipes before we realize the first strat worked better.

    Me being on the belt I am unsure what raid wide cds are being used at which times on the ground, what raid wide cds would be best to save for the fire phase if we continue current strat?

    Thank you all for your help so far, I really appreciate it

  13. #13
    Nah man don't listen to these people telling you to not kill mines. We did it and the only hard part of the fight is the part you are dying at. You need to use devo on 2nd overload and spirit shells & rally/banner on 3rd overload from the shredder add during empowered laser + magnet. After you survive that part of the fight the rest is a complete joke. Ele shaman drops HTT and AG when the emp magnet starts going off.

    Just make sure your raiders are using their defensives properly during that part of the fight and no one should die. That part of the fight is where you should blow the majority of your Defensive raid and personal cooldowns since there isn't much damage ourside of shredder overloads going out to the raid after this part of the fight.

    During progression we did kill mines strat and our kill was 5 minutes ish. The other 10m on our server did the mines strat (before mines were nerfed btw) and their kill was sooo long like 8 minutes or something.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    Because there's an area about 1/5 of the room where there's zero fire and saw blades miss you during magnet.
    I think 1/5th is generous. You'd have to assume most guilds who haven't cleared yet and are here asking for advice probably aren't the kind with extreme skills. In that case why encourage a tactic involving dodging missiles during magnet with fire around you? You could just have them take more advantage of the nerfs and higher gear to do a mines based tactic instead. I get the other one was easier to start with since killing mines on time wasn't really a thing that happened, but these days it's basically a no-brainer imo.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Siege help fast View Post
    Me being on the belt I am unsure what raid wide cds are being used at which times on the ground, what raid wide cds would be best to save for the fire phase if we continue current strat?
    If you are the raid leader, and you have wiped at the same point multiple times, why would you not try to coordinate raid cds with your team? Those are things you need to know.

    Here is what you have and keep in mind my guild does the mine strat so I have no idea how things line up time wise:

    Everyone: Personals and healthstones. These are the important ones. If everyone does not take their survival into their own hands then not much you can do. Also,l the more CDs your tanks use at this point will free up your healers to focus on everyone else.

    Paladins: Two Devo Auras. I am not sure how the timers will line up but if your ret is down at any point during that part then have him use it.

    Warrior: Rally Cry and Demo Banner. If he is down.

    Disc: Bubble and Spirit Shell. He should be able to int pot and time it so that everyone starts that phase with a full spirit shell.

    Holy: Not really sure, but definitely roll renews on everyone and circle of healing as often as possible. Make sure the raid is somewhat grouped.

    Shaman: Ascendance/Ancestral Guidance. Not sure if they will be back up at that point though.


    That being said, I agree with most that the mine strat is much easier. However, like you stated, 100+ attempts just to change strat will not be beneficial to you. Just figure out exactly what is killing you and how to fix it. Once you survive that part, you pretty much have a kill.
    Last edited by Eetabee; 2014-07-05 at 04:36 PM.

  16. #16
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...8#post25670878

    we copied Jellogs tactics almost 1:1 (click the twitch link)

    with decent dps, the boss dies after the first magnet (wave 5)
    on a bad day, we have to kite the following mines for a few seconds

    here's a recent log: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...kdFCK4#fight=8
    if you are considering to solo heal it, make sure your healer keeps the tanks up. just let dps with 5 fire stacks (huge fail) and no personal cd die. learning to avoid fire, sawblades and missiles is the key to kill this boss. it's almost impossible to die, if you don't get hit by these.

    edit: with two hunters the belt is a joke. if you want the kill really fast, get a second
    Last edited by Rakarun; 2014-07-05 at 05:58 PM.

  17. #17
    Im not raid leader lol, I'm just a huntard who is sick of wiping at the exact same place.

    Thank you for your help everyone, it will all be put into good use next raid week when we extend lockout

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    There's one thing you can do which will make the fight a million times easier.

    Stop killing mines on the belt and kill missiles EVERY time.

    We wasted 200+ wipes on killing mines and dealing with magnet + missiles etc and it's simply not needed. Especially with your comp. Your lock has nice aoe, ele shammy has sick aoe plus nice cc (capacitor totem and the slow totem don't remember it's name), dk can mass grip the mines back in place and even your priests have roots!

    Killing mines on the belt makes the fight MUCH MUCH harder than it needs to be Especially if people are derping and can't move from shit.
    agreed. with your group comp, letting the mines go through every time and killing them on the ground is ideal .... you have the best group comp available to do this, and this frees up something else (I'd recommend missiles) for you to not have to deal with an entire mechanic.

    but I also agree with ppl who said to tell your raiders to start acting like heroic raiders and pay attention to mechanics, and to stop dps'ing entirely for a few seconds if it means they won't die.

  19. #19
    The Patient
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    Killing mines tactic is mostly designed for speedkills and for ppl who have done the fight months ago, for progress killing missiles and lasers is imo recommended, mines are easy to kill but they do take some boss away making fight a bit longer yet easier.

  20. #20
    i wouldnt recommend leaving mines up. empowered mines can be a hassle for new players trying the encounter. it might seem easier to avoid fire/magnets/ blades but all in all its not very hard to dodge. once u learn where the fire is. its always there, it never changes (aside from people running the laser directly backwards) and theres a safe zone that opens up pretty soon after the magnets go off. missiles are very easy for destro locks to kill, u can havoc the boss and chaosbolt them and have the ele shaman help as well if hes not on belts.
    ive noticed a lot of wipes tend to occur if people dont have a designated place to stack sawblades. when we start the fight we are grouped in the middle. then we drag the boss way behind us and to the outer pipes (where you first land in the encounter) if some1 gets sawblades they run <--- left. not very near the shredder tank but just far enough to be away from ranged dps stacked in the mid. assuming u keep this up most blades will be close together. when the fire/laser comes there should be a small gap between the blades. as for missiles just have raiders focus on sidestepping the missiles in the kite phase. if they get focused with a sawblade drop it outside of the raid as far as they can. warlocks can save their unending resolve for that and healthstones incase they are going to get hit. if they ignore the boss at this time they might have 1 emp mine phase at the end, which isnt a big deal. missiles are easily killable, or avoidable. mines take away focus from the boss kill so. ya

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