Another iMac thread

[Lightwysh]

So I've been toying with upgrading my PC desktop vs buying a new PC and have tossed in the idea of getting an iMac and donating my PC to my kid.

I know the cost is higher, that really isn't a concern.

I don't want to get into the whole PC vs Mac fanclub debate.

I really like the design of the iMac, the 27" to be exact, and the specs don't seem to far behind(for my uses). I would get the i7 3.6ghz, 4gb 780m gfx and I would get 16gb ram. The idea of eliminating PC clutter in my work area is also appealing.

I mostly play WoW for about 90% of my gaming. Toss in a little hearthstone, D3(still haven't bought RoS if that tells you how much I play D3), and Simcity. I have BF3 but I don't really play it. I am moving towards console for the majority of my gaming.

Basically I would use it for Web, email, WoW, music(all apple music devices), and I've been wanting to get into photo editing, video editing, and writing.

My questions, I'm mostly looking for user comparisons, not fanboy responses.

1. Will the specs on the above iMac play wow for the next few years(3-5)?

2. Safari vs Chrome - I love chrome, and only use safari on mobile devices. Is desktop Safari comparable?

3. Is the Apple media software rather user friendly? I am looking to get into photo editing and GoPro video editing.

4. How well does the Bluetooth keyboard work? Battery life ect. I would use a real wired gaming mouse vs the MagicMouse thing.

5. Sound Quality - I have a 2.1 logitech sound system, I am hoping to eliminate to help reduce clutter. Is the built in sound respectable?

6. The display is 1440 but not retina, is it worth holding out for retina? I'm not aware of any rumors that it may be coming.

7. Fusion drive. 1tb with 128gb ssd built in. Is it worth the upgrade from a standard 1tb drive?

[Phinxx]

Read the full round up on whether you should buy a iMac here: http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac

Personally I would just wait until the new ones and then just buy it within the first month.

For your points, yes it will play WoW for the next 5 years.

You can install all the popular web browsers and not have to use safari.

Media software I can't advise, just youtube some tips I'm sure its easy :P

I dislike wireless stuff, but each to their own.

Sound quality is alright, depends if you're really into your sounds or not really bothered.

Hold out for the retina, rumoured later this year.

On UK apple its £160 to upgrade to a Fusion drive. Personally I don't think its worth it as a lot of the space will be used for the OS and then you have WoW which is approx 30gbs now + WoD to download doesnt really leave you with a lot of room to play with. You could just spend 160 quid on an external harddrive if you really wanted to i guess :P

[Cyanotical]

1, yes, but not on the max settings, and the 780m is a bit lacking for a 1440p resolution, but it will play

2, Safari being good or bad depends on what patch its on, sometimes its awesome, othertimes it's crap

3. yes

4. the keyboard is one of the better BT keyboards out there, the magic mouse is utter crap for gaming

5. depends on what you mean by respectable, compared to most "computer" speakers, apples sound isn't bad, (my reference is a 15" MBP though)

6. retina display will likely be a 4k or similar, you won't be able to play games with that kind of screen, the imac hardware will already be pushed to the limit with the 1440p screen

7, ssd is always worth it, if you can, go full ssd, hybrids aren't much better than a standard hdd

[glo]

I get that you don't want to hear the debate, but just keep in mind, you're looking at $2,500 minimum. That $2,500 is also going to get you a mobile GPU that performs at nearly half of what a regular 780 can do. Not to mention the 1440p screen, and you're even further down the ladder.

For $2,500 you could easily get the following:

- i7-4790k
- GTX 780 Ti
- 512GB SSD
- 2-3TB mechanical storage
- 16GB RAM
- Ability to overclock

You'd be running circles around the iMac in terms of performance and longevity. Since longevity is of concern to you (and 5 years likely isn't going to happen regardless of what you buy, unless you intend on having poor performance at the absolute minimum settings), I'd strongly suggest the PC route.

[Lightwysh]

How will the i7 3.6 with the 780m compare to my current i7-920 2.6 with a 550ti? Is the 1440 going to eat up any noticable difference? I play on 1080 with everything on high except shadows on lowest and sunshafts on lowest. I get 60+Fps everywhere but in lfr it drops to 20-30.

[Noctifer616]

I mostly play WoW for about 90% of my gaming. Toss in a little hearthstone, D3(still haven't bought RoS if that tells you how much I play D3), and Simcity. I have BF3 but I don't really play it. I am moving towards console for the majority of my gaming.

Basically I would use it for Web, email, WoW, music(all apple music devices), and I've been wanting to get into photo editing, video editing, and writing.

I know you don't want this to turn into PC vs. Mac, however, with DirectX 12 coming to PC late next year, it would be a major advantage for WoW considering how much of a CPU hog the game can be.

AMD has stated interest in bringing Mantle to Linux and Steam OS, but there was no mention of Mac. And even if Macs support Mantle, I seriously doubt Blizzard would add support for it when DirectX 12 exists.

Now, they are reducing visual clutter in WoD which should help with the CPU bottleneck, but the experience would still be superior on PC.

If you are someone that intends to do a lot of Mythic raiding in WoD and you really want the best possible experience, I would say it would be on PC with DirectX 12.

Sorry for going into the PC vs Mac thing, but I though it would be important to let you know what is in the future of gaming especially if you want to use the Mac for 3-5 years playing WoW.

And yes, I know there is no confirmation that WoW will add DirectX 12 support, however, with a ton of hardware already having support for it and there being serious benefits for WoW, I would imagine they want to add support for it ASAP.

- - - Updated - - -

How will the i7 3.6 with the 780m compare to my current i7-920 2.6 with a 550ti? Is the 1440 going to eat up any noticable difference? I play on 1080 with everything on high except shadows on lowest and sunshafts on lowest. I get 60+Fps everywhere but in lfr it drops to 20-30.

It's a mobile chip, however, it should be enough for WoW. The FPS drop in raids might be largely due to a CPU bottleneck (it's actually not really possible to run the game in raids at 60 fps constant no matter the hardware specs).

[Asera]

How will the i7 3.6 with the 780m compare to my current i7-920 2.6 with a 550ti? Is the 1440 going to eat up any noticable difference? I play on 1080 with everything on high except shadows on lowest and sunshafts on lowest. I get 60+Fps everywhere but in lfr it drops to 20-30.

1080p to 1440p is a significant performance drop -- WoW is extremely sensitive to resolution increases. I cannot maintain 60fps on a Radeon 7870 + i7 3770 at max settings (No AA), for example. Most of the reason for it across all machines is because of the engine being very CPU dependent.

If you are going to stick to an iMac, I also recommend waiting for retina. The image quality is pretty significant, and it's unlikely Apple will increase the overall price of the iMac line after introducing them. It's extremely handy for the things you listed that you want to get into as well.

Also, with the super high resolution of the retina screen, there is a handy trick that's easier to pull with these than a smaller 1440p display for running games. Because the Retina displays PPI is so obscenely high, running games at exactly half of the displays native resolution gives a significant performance increase without much of a loss in visual quality. This is what I do to run some games on my MacBook Pro. The screen's resolution is 2880x1800 pixels, and I run games at 1440x900. the iMac Retina displays will very likely be much higher resolution than the MBP's -- 4k if I were to guess. Running a game at half native would yield a 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 resolution, which is perfectly manageable, and a lot easier for the iMac hardware to push than 2560x1440 native on the current generation.

Also, while I know you are near set on the iMac, have you considered an ITX platform? My current system is putting along in a Fractal Design Node 304. Silverstone also makes cases a bit smaller than this, and several manufacturers make them entirely around being able to fit a higher end GPU inside. I think the only cards my case cannot take are the massive Titan branded cards.

[Noctifer616]

1080p to 1440p is a significant performance drop -- WoW is extremely sensitive to resolution increases. I cannot maintain 60fps on a Radeon 7870 + i7 3770 at max settings (No AA), for example. Most of the reason for it across all machines is because of the engine being very CPU dependent.

How much memory does the mobile 780 GPU got? If it's less than 3GB would that cause an issue for him at 1440p?

[drdevious]

1080p to 1440p is a significant performance drop -- WoW is extremely sensitive to resolution increases. I cannot maintain 60fps on a Radeon 7870 + i7 3770 at max settings (No AA), for example. Most of the reason for it across all machines is because of the engine being very CPU dependent.

If you are going to stick to an iMac, I also recommend waiting for retina. The image quality is pretty significant, and it's unlikely Apple will increase the overall price of the iMac line after introducing them. It's extremely handy for the things you listed that you want to get into as well.

Also, with the super high resolution of the retina screen, there is a handy trick that's easier to pull with these than a smaller 1440p display for running games. Because the Retina displays PPI is so obscenely high, running games at exactly half of the displays native resolution gives a significant performance increase without much of a loss in visual quality. This is what I do to run some games on my MacBook Pro. The screen's resolution is 2880x1800 pixels, and I run games at 1440x900. the iMac Retina displays will very likely be much higher resolution than the MBP's -- 4k if I were to guess. Running a game at half native would yield a 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 resolution, which is perfectly manageable, and a lot easier for the iMac hardware to push than 2560x1440 native on the current generation.

Also, while I know you are near set on the iMac, have you considered an ITX platform? My current system is putting along in a Fractal Design Node 304. Silverstone also makes cases a bit smaller than this, and several manufacturers make them entirely around being able to fit a higher end GPU inside. I think the only cards my case cannot take are the massive Titan branded cards.

using marketing words, "retina" is apples for high resolution.

currently, even with the top of the line iMac, the 780m is about the same speed as a $240 760. The 760 is a fantastic video card, but only at 1920 x 1080 and less screen resolution. 780m/760 cannot power a resolution of 2560 x 1440 at max settings, let alone high. It will run WoW really no differently than your current 550ti in the terms that you will still have to keep the settings a mix of medium and high. Even with low maybe on shadows. blizzard has done great strides at optimizing WoW on OS X and is a lot better than what it was just three years ago, but still not up to par as the highly optimized windows dx11 counterpart.

With WoD coming out with even more graphics updates, such as the new character models, the performance will take a hit even more. blizzard has even mentioned this.

the 27inch iMac comes with a fantastic processor, but its weakness is its laptop gpu and ridiculously high screen resolution for the gpu included.

since you want a computer that will last for 5 years, you are really better off building a new computer. you can go the mini itx route. for $2,500 you can build an extremely powerful (10x faster than the imac), and quiet itx or even a micro atx computer.

How much memory does the mobile 780 GPU got? If it's less than 3GB would that cause an issue for him at 1440p?

the 780m comes with 4gb of vram, but it will run out of gpu power in WoW long before it will hit the 4gb limit, let alone 2gb. WoW at that resolution wont even go past 2gb of vram with a powerful enough gpu for that resolution anyways.

[Lightwysh]

How much memory does the mobile 780 GPU got? If it's less than 3GB would that cause an issue for him at 1440p?

4gb as stated above.

I have thought about building a new PC but really, for what I use it for, I don't need a top of the line PC. It's more the other stuff I do/want to do that has me leaning towards Mac.

I would rather a good platform for editing than a top end gaming machine.

If I can get a comparable WoW experience to what I have now for a few years I'll be happy.

[Asera]

using marketing words, "retina" is apples for high resolution.

currently, even with the top of the line iMac, the 780m is about the same speed as a $240 760. The 760 is a fantastic video card, but only at 1920 x 1080 and less screen resolution. 780m/760 cannot power a resolution of 2560 x 1440 at max settings, let alone high. It will run WoW really no differently than your current 550ti in the terms that you will still have to keep the settings a mix of medium and high. Even with low maybe on shadows. blizzard has done great strides at optimizing WoW on OS X and is a lot better than what it was just three years ago, but still not up to par as the highly optimized windows dx11 counterpart.

With WoD coming out with even more graphics updates, such as the new character models, the performance will take a hit even more. blizzard has even mentioned this.

the 27inch iMac comes with a fantastic processor, but its weakness is its laptop gpu and ridiculously high screen resolution for the gpu included.

I only used it so they would know what I was referring to. Really it's just a one word buzzword for 'very high PPI'.

Also, I didn't recommend waiting for retina because it's pretty, I recommended it because:

- Running WoW at 2560x1440 on the current iMac hardware would be too hard on it.
- Running WoW at half of 2560x1440 would look like shit.
- Running WoW at half 4K (1920x1080 or 1920x1200 depending on the screen aspect ratio) would yield an adequate picture.
- A 4K display would be beneficial to the non-game related activities the OP outlined they wanted to do/get into.

If they want to stick with the iMac platform, waiting will give them better options.

[drdevious]

I only used it so they would know what I was referring to. Really it's just a one word buzzword for 'very high PPI'.

Also, I didn't recommend waiting for retina because it's pretty, I recommended it because:

- Running WoW at 2560x1440 on the current iMac hardware would be too hard on it.
- Running WoW at half of 2560x1440 would look like shit.
- Running WoW at half 4K (1920x1080 or 1920x1200 depending on the screen aspect ratio) would yield an adequate picture.
- A 4K display would be beneficial to the non-game related activities the OP outlined they wanted to do/get into.

If they want to stick with the iMac platform, waiting will give them better options.

it still be a waste of money. paying for that nice super high resolution and not being able to game at it. Plus, even with the newer iMacs, the gpu still will be weak and struggle with WoW. this has been the number one issues with iMacs since apple shipped the first intel based iMac. great cpu's but weak gpus for the resolution.

op, if you don't care about maxing out WoW and fine with running at medium high, then medium low in a year or two, then the iMac will serve you fine.... the high cost of the iMac is not because of the hardware... only decent hardware in there is the cpu, but its for the high resolution, 27in screen.

i also recommend getting 16gb of ram, even for editing. OS X loves ram.

[Lightwysh]

it still be a waste of money. paying for that nice super high resolution and not being able to game at it. Plus, even with the newer iMacs, the gpu still will be weak and struggle with WoW. this has been the number one issues with iMacs since apple shipped the first intel based iMac. great cpu's but weak gpus for the resolution.

op, if you don't care about maxing out WoW and fine with running at medium high, then medium low in a year or two, then the iMac will serve you fine.... the high cost of the iMac is not because of the hardware... only decent hardware in there is the cpu, but its for the high resolution, 27in screen.

i also recommend getting 16gb of ram, even for editing. OS X loves ram.

I was planning on 16gb there is a 32gb option, would that be overkill?

[Asera]

I was planning on 16gb there is a 32gb option, would that be overkill?

Probably not for OSX. As he said, OSX loves RAM. As do most production oriented software that runs on it.

[lloose]

1. They Might. 5 years is a long time. The biggest issue I have with Macs is what you have is what you get. The 780m is a mobile graphics card about as powerful as a desktop gtx 760. In a couple years when new cards come out and the that 780m is under powered, you are stuck with it.

2. They have Chrome for mac os.

3. For editing anything, you can't go wrong with a Mac.

4. You can use any usb keyboard and mouse. The ones that Apple make are a lot more form than function. They look good, but I would never use one for work or gaming.

5. Its the same as the other bottom of the line onboard sound. You can't upgrade it though. There's no slots for a new soundcard with headphone amp, or other features that are pretty much standard on PCs.

6. 1400p is a great resolution. The only problem is that in the future, when games come out you are going to have a hard time running them on the mobile GPU at that resolution. Again, you can't upgrade the GPU, so what you get is what you get.

7. 128gb ssd is kind of small considering the price of SSDs now. The rest will just be storage anyways, but if you are thinking about editing video, 1tb will go fast.

[Gravewyrm]

Personally, I'd just build a Hackintosh. Dual boot OS X and Windows. Best of both worlds, at half the cost of the iMac.
http://www.tonymacx86.com/home.php <-- All the resource you ever need. I've done 2 of them. No hacked up ISO's.

[Adam552]

I can answer your questions with information on the performance... I own the generation of iMac with 680MX in it, and with an i7, so comparable specs with yours (I run with lower specs though). People who say it can't perform (because of mobile GPU) are speculating and the actual performance on the machine is better then you'd think - the graphics/CPU actually do really well and people do not see that the margin between mobile GPU's and desktop GPU's is narrowing significantly.

1. Will the specs on the above iMac play wow for the next few years(3-5)? Yes. At max res. Recommend dual booting with Windows and you can even use Nvidia shadow play and record at native resolution at 60 fps constant on max settings.

2. Safari vs Chrome - I love chrome, and only use safari on mobile devices. Is desktop Safari comparable? I always use Safari, it's great, try it out, if you don't like then use Chrome on Mac.

3. Is the Apple media software rather user friendly? I am looking to get into photo editing and GoPro video editing. A lot of people in industry use Macs for photo/video editing because software is really good.

4. How well does the Bluetooth keyboard work? Battery life ect. I would use a real wired gaming mouse vs the MagicMouse thing. I use a Razer Naga with wireless bluetooth Apple keyboard, it works and battery usually lasts 3+ months when I play like 10 hrs a day XD.

5. Sound Quality - I have a 2.1 logitech sound system, I am hoping to eliminate to help reduce clutter. Is the built in sound respectable? Never seen anyone complain about the sound, think it's good, can't really say, I'm not a massive audiophile but I don't have problems with it.

6. The display is 1440 but not retina, is it worth holding out for retina? I'm not aware of any rumors that it may be coming. Not really, it looks stunning playing at 1440p and higher res may just cause lower FPS if you want WoW to run at max for longer, but also there will be graphics spec bump so... I can't really say until models are out. But usually I recommend waiting for newest models as the hardware will always be better.

7. Fusion drive. 1tb with 128gb ssd built in. Is it worth the upgrade from a standard 1tb drive? I found that the 1TB drive that comes with it is a fast HDD and after using it, I wouldn't say it was necessary upgrade. Although there are times when I've been using my rMBP which has flash storage and the difference in speed is noticeable for some tasks - although not much.


If I have the time, I can record some demos for you, if you want, of it running WoW at max or whatever (whilst recording XD) :P Poke in PM though because I don't usually read posts again XD.

[Deleted]

1. Will the specs on the above iMac play wow for the next few years(3-5)?

Yes, WoW is a game which has to stay backwards compatible and playable on old rigs. Keep in mind if you currently play 10 HC or plan to do the most difficult content (Mythic) then 20 man is going to demand a little bit more from your computer than 10 man. If you currently play LFR though then you can expect to use similar settings.

2. Safari vs Chrome - I love chrome, and only use safari on mobile devices. Is desktop Safari comparable?

Completely irrelevant. You can use any browser on Mac. Safari, Chrome, Firefox, ...

3. Is the Apple media software rather user friendly? I am looking to get into photo editing and GoPro video editing.

All official Apple software is without a shed of a doubt user friendly.

4. How well does the Bluetooth keyboard work? Battery life ect. I would use a real wired gaming mouse vs the MagicMouse thing.

BlueTooth keyboards batteries last fairly long from my experience.

7. Fusion drive. 1tb with 128gb ssd built in. Is it worth the upgrade from a standard 1tb drive?

Yes, SSD greatly reduces load times of both OS as well as important applications such as your browser or WoW. You won't know what you've been missing until you use a SSD.

[lloose]

I still don't think a 780m is going to be a great GPU for the next 5 years. Especially at 1440. For now, its as good as it gets for mobile GPU's, but its roughly as powerful as a gtx 760 which is barely good enough for high settings at 1440 right now. I have a 1440p screen and a non mobile gtx 780 and its great. I have seen a gtx 760 power my screen but it was barely scraping by in modern games.

[Deleted]

They are overpriced considering they are basically a meh spec'd laptop on a fancy stand.

Better buying a real desktop or Mac Pro if wanting to use it for real work.