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  1. #1

    Latest [Druid] Ability Pruning Changes!

    Druid

    Barkskin is now available only to Guardian Druids, and no longer provides pushback protection, but its base cooldown has been reduced to 30 seconds.
    Entangling Roots is now available only to Balance and Restoration Druids.
    Faerie Fire is now available only to Feral and Guardian Druids.
    Innervate has been removed (again). is now available only to Restoration Druids. Mana costs for Druids have been adjusted accordingly.
    Hibernate has been removed.
    Hurricane is now available only to Balance and Restoration Druids.
    Lacerate is now available only to Guardian Druids.
    Leader of the Pack no longer restores Mana.
    Mana regeneration for Feral and Guardian Druids has been increased by 100%.
    Lifebloom can no longer stack. Its healing has been increased to compensate.
    Maim is now available only to Feral Druids.
    Maul is now available only to Guardian Druids.
    Might of Ursoc is now available only to Guardian Druids, and no longer automatically activates Bear Form.
    Moonfire is now available only to Balance and Restoration Druids.
    Nature’s Grasp has been removed.
    Nature’s Swiftness is now available only to Restoration Druids.
    Nourish has been removed.
    Omen of Clarity (Feral) now affects all Druid spells and abilities.
    Owlkin Frenzy has been removed.
    Rake is now only available to Feral Druids and also stuns the target for 4 seconds when used while stealthed.
    Pounce has been removed. Abilities which modified Pounce now modify Rake instead.
    Regrowth now has a duration of 12 seconds (up from 6 second), but no longer refreshes itself on targets below 50% health.
    Rejuvenation is no longer available to Guardian Druids.
    Rip is now available only to Feral Druids.
    Shred is now available to all Druid specializations and now deals an additional 35% damage in addition to having twice the normal chance to critically strike while stealthed. Additionally, both Shred and Mangle now naturally apply the Infected Wounds snare for Feral and Guardian Druids.
    Infected Wounds has been removed.
    Ravage has been removed.
    Skull Bash no longer increases the mana cost of the victim’s spells.
    Swipe is now available only to Feral Druids, and is only usable in Cat Form. Swipe (Bear Form) has been removed. Swipe (Cat Form) remains unchanged.
    Thick Hide has been removed.
    Bear Form now increases armor by 330% for all Druid specializations. For Guardian Druids, it also naturally reduces magical damage taken by 25%, reduces physical damage taken by 12%, reduces the chance to be critically hit by 6%, and reduces the chance for attacks to be parried by 3%.
    Track Humanoids has been removed.
    Cat Form now naturally includes the ability to Track Humanoids.
    Travel Form now automatically transitions between Aquatic, Land, and Flight versions, as is appropriate to the Druid’s location.
    Glyph of the Stag now teaches the Druid a separate shapeshift ability, Stag Form. Stag Form will not switch between different Travel Form, and allows the Druid to act as a mount for other players.

    What are the thoughts on this from fellow druids?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also from the hunter notes, relevant for Feral

    Scare Beast has been removed.
    Last edited by gestapo; 2014-06-18 at 11:30 AM.

  2. #2
    would trade SI back for barkskin and might of ursoc anyday. The game doesn't need any more shield walls in it.
    loljk

  3. #3
    I never gave a shit about scare beast so that's meh.

    On druid changes, some are fine, like passives and merges, others feel like they're crossing a line dumbing down and neutering specs and just plain making them humdrum as hell.
    Last edited by Kojo; 2014-06-14 at 03:47 AM.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome
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    They just getting tired of having to actually balance a Jack-of-all-trades-class.

    Moonfire, Faerie Fire, Nature's Grasp, Rejuv changes, Travel Form NON-SELECTABLE, Barkskin,

    All BULLSHIT and not-needed changes if you are culling to individual specs. Look at all the other classes..they have about 1/4 of changes that we have thus proving Blizz just getting sick of a "one-class-for-everything" class.

    Back in Vanilla I chose a Druid JUST for that ability. They could step in on a whim and emergency SOMETHING (tank, heal, etc). Looking from these newest patch notes, they are making Druid just like any other class and so I'm finally done. Had Cancelled back in Jan to await Wod, but after these changes, I'm cancelling for good.

    Was fun while it lasted

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Locruid View Post
    They just getting tired of having to actually balance a Jack-of-all-trades-class.

    Moonfire, Faerie Fire, Nature's Grasp, Rejuv changes, Travel Form NON-SELECTABLE, Barkskin,

    All BULLSHIT and not-needed changes if you are culling to individual specs. Look at all the other classes..they have about 1/4 of changes that we have thus proving Blizz just getting sick of a "one-class-for-everything" class.

    Back in Vanilla I chose a Druid JUST for that ability. They could get step in on a whim and emergency SOMETHING (tank, heal, etc). Looking from these newest patch notes, they are making Druid just like any other class and so I'm finally done. Had Cancelled back in Jan to await Wod, but after these changes, I'm cancelling for good.

    Was fun while it lasted
    Quitting because you can't heal when you're the tank.boohoo ;( you'll be very missed

  6. #6
    defensive cds works out okay. The kinda killed hotw for feral and guardian healing and moonkin/resto doing cat/bear stuff.
    faerie fire is okay i suppose
    nature's grasp isn't needed if treant roots stay
    NS gone for balance is a big problem for now. ferals have those PS procs for instant HT in form, guessing moonkin may get a similar mechanic?

  7. #7
    I'll say this: my PvP binding setup will get a whole lot cleaner.

    I am rather curious what will happen with HotW, because many of the abilities that were pruned from various specs were very important towards making the talent work. To be clear, I'm really okay with the removal of many of these abilities as long as the end product works, however HotW will likely need to change at this rate. With no passive stats buff and a smaller to non-existent toolkit available for the on-use portion, no one will likely take this talent.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  8. #8
    To be honest I like some of this pruning, but I'm really sad to see us lose something like Entangling Roots - just because it's such an iconic spell. I stood by Blizzard's decisions all this time when people complained that druids were losing their 'identity', but I have to say I'm starting to change my mind slowly.

    From a selfish Feral perspective I'm glad that Hibernate & Faerie Fire are gone from Balance & Resto (they were incredibly annoying), but at the same time I'm sad for my resto/balance alt.

    I'm not sure how I feel about this. Nothing we can do but give feedback during the beta. I think we should not lose roots as Feral. Just my biased opinion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kekkeri View Post
    would trade SI back for barkskin and might of ursoc anyday. The game doesn't need any more shield walls in it.
    I'd rather have barkskin + 1 charge SI because we can skin while under cc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Locruid View Post
    They just getting tired of having to actually balance a Jack-of-all-trades-class.

    Moonfire, Faerie Fire, Nature's Grasp, Rejuv changes, Travel Form NON-SELECTABLE, Barkskin,

    All BULLSHIT and not-needed changes if you are culling to individual specs. Look at all the other classes..they have about 1/4 of changes that we have thus proving Blizz just getting sick of a "one-class-for-everything" class.

    Back in Vanilla I chose a Druid JUST for that ability. They could step in on a whim and emergency SOMETHING (tank, heal, etc). Looking from these newest patch notes, they are making Druid just like any other class and so I'm finally done. Had Cancelled back in Jan to await Wod, but after these changes, I'm cancelling for good.

    Was fun while it lasted
    Yeah this is a terrible move. Travel forms are not a candidate for pruning. We want to be able to use cheetah/stag even in areas where we can fly, for e.g. I hope the community is very vocal about this and gets it changed.

  9. #9
    The class is changing, the specs are becoming more specialised.

    I for one am sad because I have played Druid since the beginning and always enjoyed using the full range of my abilities. I play as guardian spec, but use the full repertoire of my skills. Moonfire, roots, all the cat form abilities, pounce and rip...rejuvenation, tranquility, hurricane all have their uses to an expert Druid. That was why I always ran with heart of the wild talent as well.

    I think I am really saddened. When a Druid chooses their spec now, they won't just be buffing up their favourite skills and play style, they will be doing so at the cost of everything else. If you are tanking a boss, then it won't make a difference in your niche role. But wow is more than boss fights. It's questing, exploring, dealing with world PvP gankers, solving problems...having fun.

    I play guardian primarily. I feel less a Druid now, and now just a bear form shapeshifter.

    Maybe Blizz will change their mind on some stuff. Maybe I will just get used to it. It's still a bad change. How long before as a guardian Druid, I lose my other non-bear abilities?
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Faithshield View Post
    The class is changing, the specs are becoming more specialised.

    I for one am sad because I have played Druid since the beginning and always enjoyed using the full range of my abilities. I play as guardian spec, but use the full repertoire of my skills. Moonfire, roots, all the cat form abilities, pounce and rip...rejuvenation, tranquility, hurricane all have their uses to an expert Druid. That was why I always ran with heart of the wild talent as well.

    I think I am really saddened. When a Druid chooses their spec now, they won't just be buffing up their favourite skills and play style, they will be doing so at the cost of everything else. If you are tanking a boss, then it won't make a difference in your niche role. But wow is more than boss fights. It's questing, exploring, dealing with world PvP gankers, solving problems...having fun.

    I play guardian primarily. I feel less a Druid now, and now just a bear form shapeshifter.

    Maybe Blizz will change their mind on some stuff. Maybe I will just get used to it. It's still a bad change. How long before as a guardian Druid, I lose my other non-bear abilities?
    I somewhat agree. I do love popping out to moonfire/root mobs, tank them, toss a heal, that sort of thing. It's what I signed up for as a druid in vanilla. I know the class is changing, some ability pruning stuff makes complete sense, while others are really taking away from the 'feel' of the class - which counts for a lot in enjoying the game.

    I think if the druid community can be vocal & constructive we can retain some of this stuff.

  11. #11
    Just my personal opinion on the changes. Lots of it I really don't like as a concept and think its just unnecessary.

    Disagree entirely just down to the fact these spells are iconic for druids and if we're moving towards a dungeon model where we need to use CC again, removing our CC is going to render us a little useless:
    Barkskin is now available only to Guardian Druids, and no longer provides pushback protection, but its base cooldown has been reduced to 30 seconds.
    Entangling Roots is now available only to Balance and Restoration Druids.
    Hibernate has been removed.
    Moonfire is now available only to Balance and Restoration Druids.
    Travel Form now automatically transitions between Aquatic, Land, and Flight versions, as is appropriate to the Druid’s location.
    Disagree with these as it ruins the fun Heart of the Wild / playing a different role in general.
    Hurricane is now available only to Balance and Restoration Druids.
    Maul is now available only to Guardian Druids.
    Rejuvenation is no longer available to Guardian Druids.
    Rake is now only available to Feral Druids.
    Swipe is now available only to Feral Druids, and is only usable in Cat Form. Swipe (Bear Form) has been removed. Swipe (Cat Form) remains unchanged.
    Lacerate is now available only to Guardian Druids.
    Might of Ursoc is now available only to Guardian Druids, and no longer automatically activates Bear Form.
    Rip is now available only to Feral Druids.
    Not really bothered either way by these changes.
    Maim is now available only to Feral Druids.
    Nature’s Grasp has been removed.
    Nature’s Swiftness is now available only to Restoration Druids.
    Track Humanoids has been removed.
    Infected Wounds has been removed.
    Innervate has been removed (again). is now available only to Restoration Druids. Mana costs for Druids have been adjusted accordingly.
    Faerie Fire is now available only to Feral and Guardian Druids.
    Thick Hide has been removed.
    Agree with these.
    Leader of the Pack no longer restores Mana.
    Lifebloom can no longer stack. Its healing has been increased to compensate.
    Nourish has been removed.
    Omen of Clarity (Feral) now affects all Druid spells and abilities.
    Owlkin Frenzy has been removed.
    Pounce has been removed. Abilities which modified Pounce now modify Rake instead.
    Skull Bash no longer increases the mana cost of the victim’s spells.
    Ravage has been removed.

  12. #12
    Well as a Guardian Druid, I am losing:

    Entangled Roots,
    Nature's Grasp,
    Hibernate,
    Moonfire,
    Hurricane,
    Rejuvenation,
    Tranquility,
    Innervate,
    Maim,
    Rake (and Pounce),
    Rip,
    Cat Form Swipe,
    Bear Hug,
    Enrage,
    Symbiosis.

    Of those lost, I would like to hold on to

    Entangled Roots - It is still a useful form of CC and an iconic Druid spell. Very handy in dungeons where CC is needed, sometimes even raids (such as the adds leading up to Garrosh). Also handy in PvP and just in general.

    Moonfire - 40 yard range, no cooldown. It has many uses, such as mass pulling, tagging or keeping enemy players in combat. I can't imagine not being able to use Moonfire for situations like that. Plus the spell effect is always fun.

    Rejuvenation - Instant cast HoTs are always nice. You don't always have the time or mana to cast a Healing Touch. With Heart of the Wild, you can [currently] cast Rejuvenation in Bear Form and blanket the raid whilst tanking. With MoP they actually made it heal for a respectable amount for non Resto Druids.

    Tranquility - Obviously very powerful raid cooldown, and most boss fights give you opportunity to use it. Though I realise this is more balance than pruning, so whatever.

    Rake/Rip/Cat Form Swipe - Cat form is all about bleeds, and with Heart of the Wild I can dish out some pretty high DPS with these skills. Plus Pounce [now Rake], is always handy in PvP as it is a stun on a different diminishing return. Without these skills, all I will have is Shred [ironically now returning] and Ferocious Bite. It wont be the same or anywhere near as interesting.

    I can live without the other skills, but personally, that is what I would like to keep.
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  13. #13
    We are losing much of what is iconic to the class. We are no longer a "Druid", from those notes we will seem much more like just a part of a "Druid". Kind of disappointing. I wonder if it will go through.

    Don't get me wrong, we have a lot of abilities, I am currently having issues with cat form as my action bar is to bloated, but this doesn't address that at all. Rather, it just hurts and removes much of what it means to be a druid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    If you can prove that all players are from Iowa, I will post about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    You don't just buy a site that works just fine with a plan to change everything, it's not worth the hassle, the only major change we could do to boost the traffic is to offer Night Elf porn to the users, and I was told I can't do that.
    If i ever have a chance to fly to France, i will do so with my only intention being to find you Boub and give you a hug for being so awesome ^_^ <3

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Heywes View Post
    We are losing much of what is iconic to the class. We are no longer a "Druid", from those notes we will seem much more like just a part of a "Druid". Kind of disappointing. I wonder if it will go through.

    Don't get me wrong, we have a lot of abilities, I am currently having issues with cat form as my action bar is to bloated, but this doesn't address that at all. Rather, it just hurts and removes much of what it means to be a druid.
    Cat Form has always had a problem whereby the action bar doesn't change when you prowl. But I have always macroed the abilities to swap based on whether im prowling or not, which seems to be what Blizzard are doing here. Although I use to link up Ferocious Bite/Ravage and Rip/Pounce since those were 99.9% of the time mutually exclusive - not much point in a finishing move if you have no combat points and are prowling.
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  15. #15
    Rejuvenation is such an iconic spell for druids.

    To lose it in guardian spec hits me more than any other change there.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    Rejuvenation is such an iconic spell for druids.

    To lose it in guardian spec hits me more than any other change there.
    Agree completely!

    And although I realise it carries no weight in the argument/discussion....Warcraft 3 Druids of the CLAW had rejuvenation as one of their main skills. I imagine it was why WoW Druids were given rejuvenation in the first place, and what led us down a path of becoming heal over time specialists.

    And now Bear Druids will lose it, how sad, and ironic. :-(
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  17. #17
    I love the tweak of druid spells, and the removal of excessive situational spells.

    Is the position requirement for "Shred" removed?

  18. #18
    Yes, Shred has now replaced Mangle for all Druid specs. And now acts as Ravage whilst prowling.
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  19. #19
    The Patient
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    As a feral druid, there are 3 abilities I am mainly concerned about losing from the Alpha patch notes:

    Barkskin - Although the SI change is very welcome, like many other have already commented I feel like the loss of Barkskin will be a problem for situations when we are CC'd

    Bear abilities - I didn't like it when feral and bear got split, but I understand the reasons. We that happened we lost a lot of bear abilities. With these new changes it seems like they may as well just remove bear form for feral druids. All it is now is a form to shift in to for damaging soaking...

    Moonfire - LI aside considerations aside, moonfire is an excellent tool for quickly tagging things from range. What ability will we have now to instantly pull from range (excluding FF as that has no damage component)

  20. #20
    I still feel like at least both feral and guardian lack so many tools compared to other classes. A guardian druid has his damaging attacks, a charge, some defensive CDs and then he can talent two CC abilities. That's it. I haven't played my warrior since Cataclysm so I don't know what they have or will have, but they used to have all these fun utility spells on top of what bears had like disarm and spell reflect that you might not need on every boss fight, but you did use them. I've always been fine with that since druids had their hybridism, especially pre-MoP, but now it just feels like I'm playing a really light version of a real spec if I can't even use any cat attacks or moonfire pull when I'm questing or need to break a CC for whatever reason.

    It really sucks. I didn't like the split of the specs that they did in MoP, it did not give us two complete specs, it gave us two half-completed specs, and now they're taking it even further instead of actually adding things to our specs.

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