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  1. #1
    The Patient Drweird's Avatar
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    MOONKIN - H Garrosh Transition 1 Add Dmg Help

    So last week my guild had 71 wipes on Heroic Garrosh. Over the course of those 71 wipes, I did a total of 218.3 million damage to the Embodied Doubt adds. That's an average of 3.07 million damage per pull (it's probably a little higher than that seeing as the first night we didn't even get to Phase 1 a lot and there are still times where I do some dmg and then die to people missing their interrupts). Regardless of the situation, I feel like this damage could be better.

    Here are the logs to each night.

    Tuesday: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...s=1623&wipes=1
    Wednesday: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...done&target=82
    Thursday: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...one&target=125

    Here is what I am already doing.

    1) Start 1 cast out of Lunar, preferably with an SS proc.
    2) Dump my SS proc into my add to pull me into Lunar.
    3) DoT all 3 w/ Moonfire.
    4) Re-target my add and pop Starfall.
    5) Dps as normal.

    I'm using Glyph of Guided Stars for higher Garrosh single-target damage, hence why I DoT all 3. Would my dmg be better if I just focused on my add going down?

    I don't really know what else I can be doing and you people are smart and better Boomkins than me. Any help would be great.

    Funniest part is, my actual damage done to Garrosh is top 3 if not 1st in the guild on most pulls.

  2. #2
    Gonna be honest here, boomkins are pretty bad at p1 damage. spread adds that die quickly are the worst situation for boomkins.

    I don't know where you are, but i'm personally in the back... all i do is run straight to the back, dotting everything on the way and using my banked starfall, and i kill my own add single target... I don't think theres much of a differnece if i single target it down or if i multidot all 3 adds in the pack. If your adds live long enough, it might be worth multidotting them though, just remember that a dot is barely better than an actual nuke spell in terms of damage, so outside of putting both dots to proc starsurges, dots that won't last the full duration will suck.

    Either way, phase 1 shouldn't be a concern. Even if you had 16 boomkins as dps, you should still be able to beat the 25 energy.

  3. #3
    You should be saving your CA for the 1st intermission if you struggling on add damage. So pre-pull start pre-lunar and by the time the first intermission comes around you should be about too hit lunar or are in it. So save that starfall. Insta pop in as soon as the intermission pops. Then pop CA and double dot. You will wreck adds

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't personally play with the glyph either. On paragons for add CC but for mind controls and the intermission damage. That glyph is a waste.

  4. #4
    On 25 adds are alive for long enough to boomkins to be one of the best dps for them, I do 7M on a bad pull and 10M on a good, w/o using CA. As you do, start pre solar, fish for SS procs by dotting Garrosh before entering the intermission (you should almost always have one since you have to wait prelunar and can't use SS procs). I cast the SS as soon as I get in, then dot 2 adds with MF, starfall, MF last add, SnF all 3, but use any SS procs you get right away. If you have a free gcd once all 3 adds are dotted you can start casting SF, but you'll end up interrupting it a lot because of SS procs.

  5. #5
    As Gebuz said, on 25man it feels really good as balance on those adds. I feel like I get the greatest benefit from going for a back add pack (near garrosh). You can always save an extra starfall for the intermission if you want to. I make sure I'm 1 cast away from lunar, get in (stafall if I saved it), ss proc on middle pack, sunfire all three, then starfall (if I didn't save one), Moonfire my group's adds, starsurge all the way.

    When we did it on 10man I would save CA for the phase and DoT left group, middle group and back left group (mine), but I don't see the point in really doing that for 25man, as it greatly reduces your garrosh dmg in p2, and 1st intermission is a lot easier in 25man (IMO).
    "Such insolence... such arrogance... must be PUNISHED!"

  6. #6
    The Patient Drweird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gebuz View Post
    On 25 adds are alive for long enough to boomkins to be one of the best dps for them, I do 7M on a bad pull and 10M on a good, w/o using CA. As you do, start pre solar, fish for SS procs by dotting Garrosh before entering the intermission (you should almost always have one since you have to wait prelunar and can't use SS procs). I cast the SS as soon as I get in, then dot 2 adds with MF, starfall, MF last add, SnF all 3, but use any SS procs you get right away. If you have a free gcd once all 3 adds are dotted you can start casting SF, but you'll end up interrupting it a lot because of SS procs.
    Ok ill try this. I wasnt bothering with SnF.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drweird View Post
    Ok ill try this. I wasnt bothering with SnF.
    Only casting moonfire (altho its eclipsed) deminishes your chance of SS procs, not only because youre single dotting over double dotting, but because of the dr they put on single dotting a while back

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    Only casting moonfire (altho its eclipsed) deminishes your chance of SS procs, not only because youre single dotting over double dotting, but because of the dr they put on single dotting a while back
    I've not seen this anywhere - there is some DR on single dotting? Is this being changed with WoD?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarob22 View Post
    I've not seen this anywhere - there is some DR on single dotting? Is this being changed with WoD?
    SS proc rate drops significantly when 3 or more targets have the same dot. In WoD only the latest application of both Moonfire and Sunfire will be able to proc it (read warlock Nightfall)

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    SS proc rate drops significantly when 3 or more targets have the same dot. In WoD only the latest application of both Moonfire and Sunfire will be able to proc it (read warlock Nightfall)
    I see, thanks. So does the proc rate dropping mean that it is actually detrimental to dot more than 2 targets with the same dot, or just that adding a 3rd target doesn't increase the chance to get a proc as much as adding a 2nd does?

  11. #11
    DoTs are still the hardest hitting spells we have so you put DoTs on as many targets as you can to do the most DPS. NG stops you from camping in an Eclipse and only using DoTs though.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    DoTs are still the hardest hitting spells we have so you put DoTs on as many targets as you can to do the most DPS. NG stops you from camping in an Eclipse and only using DoTs though.
    Eh? One starfire does more damage than moonfire/sunfire, and one wrath does just over 70% of the damage of a moonfire/sunfire (just taking the numbers for each spell from wowhead). Considering the fact that this thread was about adds on Garrosh that die fairly quickly, using dots should really only be put on targets that will exist for a large percentage of the duration of the dot. I'm pretty sure I also saw this sentiment echoed in other places on these and other druid forums and websites, too.

    By what logic are DoTs our hardest hitting spells?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarob22 View Post
    I see, thanks. So does the proc rate dropping mean that it is actually detrimental to dot more than 2 targets with the same dot, or just that adding a 3rd target doesn't increase the chance to get a proc as much as adding a 2nd does?
    probably dot your entire group w/ eclipsed dot and 1 uneclipsed dot, and perhaps a second set of 3 adds (w/ eclipsed) that dies slowly nearby.

    If you're looking for general advice on "is multidotting worth it for single target dps", usually no, unless you're moving and don't want to overwrite strong dots and have no starsurge procs. I always multidot at least 1 extra target w/ CA if possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarob22 View Post
    Eh? One starfire does more damage than moonfire/sunfire, and one wrath does just over 70% of the damage of a moonfire/sunfire (just taking the numbers for each spell from wowhead). Considering the fact that this thread was about adds on Garrosh that die fairly quickly, using dots should really only be put on targets that will exist for a large percentage of the duration of the dot. I'm pretty sure I also saw this sentiment echoed in other places on these and other druid forums and websites, too.

    By what logic are DoTs our hardest hitting spells?
    damage per execute time, DPET
    and starfire can only damage one target at a time in a situation where you want to cleave.

    you'll do poorly if a group of adds dies in less than 10-15seconds
    Last edited by rhandal; 2014-06-25 at 01:04 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarob22 View Post
    Eh? One starfire does more damage than moonfire/sunfire
    Moonfire/Sunfire do a lot more damage than Starfire/Wrath.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Moonfire/Sunfire do a lot more damage than Starfire/Wrath.
    Nope. Example:

    I have 45k spellpower.

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=8921/moonfire

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=2912/starfire

    Moonfire = ~620 + (0.24 * 45000) + 1841 + (1.68*45000) = 88861

    Starfire = ~4800 + (2.16 * 45000) = 102000

    Now, of course starfire has a cast time, but with the 10k haste cap it's almost at the GCD, so apart from when you start casting starfire, you will get more benefit out of casting a couple of starfires on a low hp mob (even 3 than you will casting 1 moonfire and a starfire.

    Unless I'm doing something horribly wrong, I'm not sure where you're coming from.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dolsonthedruid View Post
    probably dot your entire group w/ eclipsed dot and 1 uneclipsed dot, and perhaps a second set of 3 adds (w/ eclipsed) that dies slowly nearby.

    If you're looking for general advice on "is multidotting worth it for single target dps", usually no, unless you're moving and don't want to overwrite strong dots and have no starsurge procs. I always multidot at least 1 extra target w/ CA if possible.


    damage per execute time, DPET
    and starfire can only damage one target at a time in a situation where you want to cleave.

    you'll do poorly if a group of adds dies in less than 10-15seconds
    Moonfire is only higher DPET if you get pretty much the full duration on an add. If you get less than (I think) 10-12 seconds of it on an add, it's worth more to not cast it and get another starfire/wrath in. See my maths below.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarob22 View Post
    -snip-
    Every single log I have checked 1 DoT tick is roughly 1/8 the damage of an equivalent buffed Starfire/Wrath. Considering DoTs tick 11 times (14 times with meta procs) it's very easy to see that DoTs are higher DPET. Spell tooltips ingame also show this if you bothered to put more than 5 seconds of thought into it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarob22 View Post

    Now, of course starfire has a cast time, but with the 10k haste cap it's almost at the GCD, so apart from when you start casting starfire, you will get more benefit out of casting a couple of starfires on a low hp mob (even 3 than you will casting 1 moonfire and a starfire.
    starfire is almost never the same as the GCD and more haste is going to make dots tick longer and faster. Again, starfire hits one target.... At minimum you should be dotting all 3 in your group w/ eclipsed and 1 uneclipsed.

    If any group is wiping so fast that you should be using nukes > DoTs they have a real interrupt problem... That's like letting the first 2 casts go off.
    Last edited by rhandal; 2014-06-25 at 03:19 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Every single log I have checked 1 DoT tick is roughly 1/8 the damage of an equivalent buffed Starfire/Wrath. Considering DoTs tick 11 times (14 times with meta procs) it's very easy to see that DoTs are higher DPET. Spell tooltips ingame also show this if you bothered to put more than 5 seconds of thought into it.
    So you need 8 dot ticks to make it even equal, meaning that you need 9 to make it more worthwhile to cast a dot than a wrath/sf, which means you need at *least* 81% of the dot time to complete for it to be worth it. This was more my point tbh.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarob22 View Post
    So you need 8 dot ticks to make it even equal, meaning that you need 9 to make it more worthwhile to cast a dot than a wrath/sf, which means you need at *least* 81% of the dot time to complete for it to be worth it. This was more my point tbh.
    A starfire takes twice as long to cast as a DoT so you only need 4 DoT ticks to make it better than a starfire.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    A starfire takes twice as long to cast as a DoT so you only need 4 DoT ticks to make it better than a starfire.
    Ah that's true *derp* Well this has been enlightening anyhow, cheers.

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