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  1. #21
    Surprised nobody mentioned that not only do dots do more dmg, but also give you starsurge procs. With gear levels you should have at heroic garrosh you ought to get a few procs through when dotting the adds -> starsurge procs -> more profit than spamming nukes.

  2. #22
    What I do in my guild as we still raid 10m HC atm is save my CD's for that phase because the add's in the start of the encounter just get decimated by Ele sham and warlock. Damage to Garrosh at the time is pretty useless.. as well. I DoT the middle pack and run straight to the back double dotting everything. Over the course of the fight you won't do as much damage as everyone else because when people use second 3min CD's you wont be able to in order to save them for the "burn phase" but you will decimate intermission 1.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Drit View Post
    What I do in my guild as we still raid 10m HC atm is save my CD's for that phase because the add's in the start of the encounter just get decimated by Ele sham and warlock. Damage to Garrosh at the time is pretty useless.. as well. I DoT the middle pack and run straight to the back double dotting everything. Over the course of the fight you won't do as much damage as everyone else because when people use second 3min CD's you wont be able to in order to save them for the "burn phase" but you will decimate intermission 1.
    I'd never suggest saving CDs for the intermission. While phase 1 damage is mostly irrelevant having to delay your CDs 2 minutes effects your boss damage in phase 2 and 3 a lot. While doing 10man progression myself I tried saving CDs for it but it really doesn't do that much extra damage, maybe 10% more if your adds live for a long time. You can easily do just as much damage with 2 starfalls, a few moonfires and startfire/starsurge.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    I'd never suggest saving CDs for the intermission. While phase 1 damage is mostly irrelevant having to delay your CDs 2 minutes effects your boss damage in phase 2 and 3 a lot. While doing 10man progression myself I tried saving CDs for it but it really doesn't do that much extra damage, maybe 10% more if your adds live for a long time. You can easily do just as much damage with 2 starfalls, a few moonfires and startfire/starsurge.
    How would using cds ever only be a 10% increase when using cds when INC alone is 30% increased dmg? Using cds is definitely a good idea if you are struggeling with killing the adds in time in 10 man. Obviously you lose some p1 and p2 dps, but there's no way you're gonna kill it anyway if you get empowered whirls after first intermission.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Gebuz View Post
    How would using cds ever only be a 10% increase when using cds when INC alone is 30% increased dmg? Using cds is definitely a good idea if you are struggeling with killing the adds in time in 10 man. Obviously you lose some p1 and p2 dps, but there's no way you're gonna kill it anyway if you get empowered whirls after first intermission.
    Because the targets die too fast to get full benefit from the stronger DoTs.

  6. #26
    Okay, so let me get this straight, you are trying to convince me that the first few dot ticks doesn't benefit from INC?

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    doesn't make any sense

  7. #27
    If a target has 3m health and you are assigned to kill it on your own then it doesn't matter if you do that 3m damage in 1 second or 5 seconds. You can pop Incarnation and kill it faster but you're still doing the same amount of damage since your target has a finite amount of health. Saving CDs will not help your damage in the intermission, it will kill your target faster but you are doing exactly the same amount of damage regardless.

  8. #28
    Field Marshal Druidboii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    If a target has 3m health and you are assigned to kill it on your own then it doesn't matter if you do that 3m damage in 1 second or 5 seconds. You can pop Incarnation and kill it faster but you're still doing the same amount of damage since your target has a finite amount of health. Saving CDs will not help your damage in the intermission, it will kill your target faster but you are doing exactly the same amount of damage regardless.

    What Glurp is saying is that while you, personally, will do more damage. The overall damage of the raid to Embodied Doubts is the same. For you to do more damage to the add, someone else has to do less.

    And I really doubt you have to save your CDs anymore at this ridiculous iLevel (We're 580+ iLevel, when I killed it for the first time I was 568....)

  9. #29
    Sure, but it's not very often I meet a boomkin dumb enough to only kill one add in the transition and then afk while waiting for the rest of the raid to kill their adds. If you do 20% of the raids damage in the transition, and you do 50% more DPS when using cds, you'll make the transition 10/11 of the time it would take w/o cds. As it happens, 10/11*50% = 45.5% so you still do 45.5% more damage. Or let's just say that you for some reason decide using CA for 6 free Sunfires is a bad idea, you'd still get 10/11*30% = 27.3% just from INC. Anyway, my point was that if you need the extra DPS to not get empowered whirls after first transition, that's way more important than getting 1 less emp whirl in p2 or 1 less wolf rider in p1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Druidboii View Post
    What Glurp is saying is that while you, personally, will do more damage. The overall damage of the raid to Embodied Doubts is the same. For you to do more damage to the add, someone else has to do less.

    And I really doubt you have to save your CDs anymore at this ridiculous iLevel (We're 580+ iLevel, when I killed it for the first time I was 568....)
    Well, guilds that is still progressing probably do about the same dps in 580+ ilvl that we did in 568 when we killed it.

  10. #30
    Using CDs in the transition would only increase your damage a significant amount if you just put popped your CDs upon entering and stood there putting DoTs on everything, which would be completely useless. I'm also not sure where you got the idea that anyone is saying to only kill one add. The only way saving CDs for the transition would help is if you aren't able to keep the boss under 25 energy, in which case your guild's DPS is either so bad that you have no chance of ever killing the boss or people aren't assigned properly.

    If saving your CDs only effected your P1 damage then sure go ahead and do it, but that is not the case. Delaying your CDs for 2 minutes is going to severely impact your P2 and P3 damage which if you're struggling to do T1 damage, I can assure you that P2 and P3 DPS checks will be a bigger problem for you and you'd be better of optimizing your DPS better in T1 rather than being lazy and gimping yourself on purpose.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    The only way saving CDs for the transition would help is if you aren't able to keep the boss under 25 energy
    So basically what I've been saying the whole time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    If saving your CDs only effected your P1 damage then sure go ahead and do it, but that is not the case. Delaying your CDs for 2 minutes is going to severely impact your P2 and P3 damage which if you're struggling to do T1 damage, I can assure you that P2 and P3 DPS checks will be a bigger problem for you and you'd be better of optimizing your DPS better in T1 rather than being lazy and gimping yourself on purpose.
    Really? no really? you obviously have no idea what you are talking about, because that's how my guild got our first kill. But you're excused, you probably just had a really easy time killing the adds because you had a raid composition with great burst for the adds in the first transition, now here's the thing, NOT EVERYBODY DOES. On our first kill we used CDs in first transition and sure we might have gotten one extra emp whirling, but that's way better than being stuck in first transition. Oh and did I mention, we DID kill it, even though according to you we were just "being lazy" or "gimped ourselves on purpose" but hey, I guess you are all-knowing and know exactly what the strength and weaknesses of all players and raid compositions is, so obviously we did it wrong. You should start coaching guilds, I'm sure you calling all of them bad would help them during progression.

    PS: saving cds doesn't affect P3 dmg at all, only p1 and p2
    Last edited by Gebuz; 2014-06-26 at 03:07 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Gebuz View Post
    So basically what I've been saying the whole time.


    Really? no really? you obviously have no idea what you are talking about, because that's how my guild got our first kill. But you're excused, you probably just had a really easy time killing the adds because you had a raid composition with great burst for the adds in the first transition, now here's the thing, NOT EVERYBODY DOES. On our first kill we used CDs in first transition and sure we might have gotten one extra emp whirling, but that's way better than being stuck in first transition. Oh and did I mention, we DID kill it, even though according to you we were just "being lazy" or "gimped ourselves on purpose" but hey, I guess you are all-knowing and know exactly what the strength and weaknesses of all players and raid compositions is, so obviously we did it wrong. You should start coaching guilds, I'm sure you calling all of them bad would help them during progression.

    PS: saving cds doesn't affect P3 dmg at all, only p1 and p2
    Thankyou for this post. I've killed garrosh on both 10 man and 25man. On progression the adds needed to die faster, so I always started in pre-lunar and saved CA for the intermission. On 25man I no longer have to do this as I have a rediculous ilvl. But 10man, engaging all 5 packs requires me to have that extra cd held back. If you persist in using the glyph of guided starts. Then eclipsed dot on 3 adds before you SF.

  13. #33
    Keyboard Turner Thravia's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if this has been posted (coulden't be arsed to read all of it), but generally what I do, is I save 1x starfall, and make sure to be 25 energy from Lunar Eclipse, so that I can double starfall inside the first intermission, for maximum damage on the adds.

  14. #34
    For what it's worth, our group on 10m Heroic Garrosh...

    We assign two people per add group, and I'm partnered with our holy paladin who does low damage to the adds but has two AoE interrupts (Blinding Light + Arcane Torrent). I'm on the add pack in the middle. I decouple Incarnation and CA+Berserking on my first two uses, and both are back up in time for Blood Lust (when we need to hit a hard DPS check). I personally go:
    Pull -> Incarnation (kill first add wave)
    Transition 1 (jade serpent, starfall as I'm being dragged in) -> Pop CA -> Dot 1 Add on the Left Pack and 3 Adds in the Middle Pack -> Chain SS procs into one add in the middle pack and sneak in my second Starfall once the first one is over .... Note that I need to use my Solar Beam to interrupt a cast
    Post Transition 1 (aka Phase 2) -> Incarnation once it comes up. Use CA+Berserkering after Whirling #3 (it's off CD at this point)
    Transition 2 = Dance party! Wait for stuff to come off CD
    Post Transition 2 = Save Incarnation when it comes off CD for lust. By the time you push Phase 3 (Burn phase), lust will be popped and you can proceed to use Inc, 2nd pot, and CA should be off CD while lust and incarnation are both active (in my experience).


    Note that decoupling CA from Inc for the first two uses is a personal DPS loss on Garrosh himself, but it makes the first transition easier, and your Garrosh DPS won't suffer during the lust and burn part of the fight.
    Last edited by TheKaz; 2014-07-17 at 02:44 AM.

  15. #35
    I usually average out about 6 million per try, sometimes I dip to 4.8 mil, and that's in 568 gear, since I'm terribly undergeared compared to the other people in my guild. Yet I'm keeping up with add damage.
    Even when I am caught outside of my lunar eclipse for the adds, my dmg stays about that 4.8 mil minimum.
    This is 25 man.

    But as you said, the best thing to do is one cast away from lunar and if you get the further groups, dot up adds in the middle on the way. That'll increase the chance of getting an SS proc, (at least from my experience, even with 15k crit and 11k haste, I'm still getting periods of drought where I get no procs at all).

    I personally open up with a sunfire, pop the SS charge, starfall, Moonfire the whole pack. Continue blasting those SS procs and cast starfire whenever I don't have procs to use.
    Also, if you're struggling on damage, pop a potion. I'm personally not popping a potion because my guild has managed to get the hang of the intermission dps, we simply keep failing because people just die left right and center during the annhilates, mostly due them being slow, healers being slow or CDs not being used, or simply by not picking up a bubble.

    But yeah, for phase 1, don't give a shit about your damage. I'm usually near the bottom (coupled with balance not being great for Garrosh phase 1, and the low gear compared to the rest of the raid (hell, I still use LFR bindings, got heroic taken away from me when someone with more dkp and the normal warforged outbid me), Yet on every single attempt, I am usually between second and 6th on boss damage (Warrior tank being first), and usually I'm pretty high on weapon damage as well.
    Just focus on the things your class is good at, leave the meter padding to the warlocks, melees, hunters and ele shammies.
    Last edited by Rocketbear; 2014-07-18 at 02:56 PM.
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