Deserter Debuff hotfixes

[Reveries1]

Yea only if you're bad. All of you stop being baddies and fight the people you get matched up with......... I mean i'll take the free wins if you want, but i'd rather have someone fight me rather then just leave.

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also arenas isn't meant to be the 1st place you gear up - that's what honor gear is for - In b4 people go " I get smashed in random bg's "

You don't even need to step foot inside a bg to get ready for pvp

Arenas is for people who already have a " starter set of gear "

People using the system wrong and then complain about the system ....

So you would have players play 150+ random BG's to get honor gear first before going into arena? After that you would over 100 arena wins to get your conquest gear.

One thing people dont seem to understand is in the end MMR is designed to place you in a rating that will give you 50/50 win/loss. Tanking your rating was a way to group those losses and take them at a substantially high rate. Losing 5 games in 60 seconds compared to losing a game in 5 minutes. In the end the only thing that has changed at the lower rating brackets is the amount of time it takes for ALL of us including those who did not tank there rating to get gear.

Hopefully Blizzard will be so kind and increase awarded conquest in all forms. Doubling conquest for arena wins would still require you to win 66 or so games is that not enough work to get a full set of gear? I doubt I will cap out my lock or priest if nothing is changed.

[Lulbalance]

eehhh.. this seems like a bad idea that won't help the actual problem, just punish people who miss the q.

[Littlepinch]

So you would have players play 150+ random BG's to get honor gear first before going into arena? After that you would over 100 arena wins to get your conquest gear.

One thing people dont seem to understand is in the end MMR is designed to place you in a rating that will give you 50/50 win/loss. Tanking your rating was a way to group those losses and take them at a substantially high rate. Losing 5 games in 60 seconds compared to losing a game in 5 minutes. In the end the only thing that has changed at the lower rating brackets is the amount of time it takes for ALL of us including those who did not tank there rating to get gear.

Hopefully Blizzard will be so kind and increase awarded conquest in all forms. Doubling conquest for arena wins would still require you to win 66 or so games is that not enough work to get a full set of gear? I doubt I will cap out my lock or priest if nothing is changed.

There are multiple ways of getting the honor you need without stepping foot inside a bg. Read it again

You can to the thunder isle dailies for 600+ honor for about 10 mins work everyday
You can run Heroic duns and convert justice to honor ( way faster then running random bgs day in and out just saying )
Then you have the karasang wilds rares
Now you can step in and get that win of the day ( from those bg's you love running to gear up )
Tol Barad
Wintergrasp

Doing these few simple things, you can be 522+ geared in less then 3 days

Don't be lazy and use all the options open to you, so you can gear up quickly then enjoy your time in pvp.

Please tell me more about how im telling you to grind 150+ bg's please

Took me and my friends 4-5 hours in arena to get our 100 win mount with no tanking rating or any other stupid way to play the system.
Even did so with an odd team no less - BM Hunter/Disc Priest/MM Hunter lol was kinda fun though.

[Reveries1]

I understand and get your point about gearing up outside of pvp for honor. Personally I feel this is more of a player solution to a problem. Players have a hard time gearing up in pvp so they resort to player made solutions to get gear like doing dungeons to convert justice to honor.

I guess it comes down to what a reasonable amount of time is to get a player geared in pvp. So lets look at the math of it. Lets assume you are full grievous gear and jumping into arena. You Spammed dungeons and did the dailies rare kills for that.

For ease of math I wont add in the conquest you get from the dailies or the TB wins.

Current conquest cap for a fresh 90. 19200

128 arena wins for cap. Assuming 5 minute games for the games you win that's 10.5 hours in the arena you win. Now lets assume a 50% loss because that's how MMR is supposed to work and add say a loss takes 2 minutes that's 4 hours in games you lost. So if you play fast games lose 50% of the time you are looking at around 15 hours of arena's to get to the current conquest catch up cap for a new player.

Is that reasonable?

[Littlepinch]

I understand and get your point about gearing up outside of pvp for honor. Personally I feel this is more of a player solution to a problem. Players have a hard time gearing up in pvp so they resort to player made solutions to get gear like doing dungeons to convert justice to honor.

I guess it comes down to what a reasonable amount of time is to get a player geared in pvp. So lets look at the math of it. Lets assume you are full grievous gear and jumping into arena. You Spammed dungeons and did the dailies rare kills for that.

For ease of math I wont add in the conquest you get from the dailies or the TB wins.

Current conquest cap for a fresh 90. 19200

128 arena wins for cap. Assuming 5 minute games for the games you win that's 10.5 hours in the arena you win. Now lets assume a 50% loss because that's how MMR is supposed to work and add say a loss takes 2 minutes that's 4 hours in games you lost. So if you play fast games lose 50% of the time you are looking at around 15 hours of arena's to get to the current conquest catch up cap for a new player.

Is that reasonable?

I think it is, 15 hours of game play for something you enjoy doing is nothing really. I know far more things in this game that would take more work and time than that.
15 hours of work for a whole xpac of enjoyment in pvp isn't very much imo

[Littlepinch]

I'm not sure what honor gear is for, except for wasting time on some useless shite gear that's barely worth enchanting. Maybe it's good for disenchanting? I definitely wouldn't call that gearing up, might as well hope to meet baddies in arena and skip the honor grind.

Although I tend to have fun playing undergeared double dps, I sure as hell don't see that as working towards something. I find the gear grind since s9 extremely boring and unattractive. Go spam 128 wins in arena at 1.2k mmr vs baddies? Spam 128 wins in arena at 2k mmr vs tryhards playing healer/dps in 2v2 after everyone and their grandma stopped caring about it 7 seasons ago? Yawn, such work, wow.

anyone who thinks honor gear of worse then being in 496 timeless gear in pvp is just ignorant.
In full 522 gear you will have over 45% pvp power ( i'm sure this does nothing for your effectiveness in pvp am i rite 0.o )
Stop spreading misinformation, just because you ( 1 person ) see's honor gear as useless. Doesn't mean the other ( millions ) of people think the same.

[Icecreamcake]

Well think of it this way, for the people who have been playing all season, whethers thats to cap or to push, they all still had to put in the games to get capped. The main issue is that it's so late into the season compared to when people got their full gear that it's hard to catch up and the current cap is overwhelming for newer toons who don't have the gear.

[Deleted]

anyone who thinks honor gear of worse then being in 496 timeless gear in pvp is just ignorant.
In full 522 gear you will have over 45% pvp power ( i'm sure this does nothing for your effectiveness in pvp am i rite 0.o )
Stop spreading misinformation, just because you ( 1 person ) see's honor gear as useless. Doesn't mean the other ( millions ) of people think the same.

You also said "Yea only if you're bad. All of you stop being baddies and fight the people you get matched up with......... I mean i'll take the free wins if you want, but i'd rather have someone fight me rather then just leave."


In 522 gear you will still get smashed by any 550 1200 rating backpeddlar, in previous expansions you could be in blues and still beat geared opponents by outplaying in mop low mmr games tend to be over as the gate opens unless equal gear (which is rare low mmr). Its not being a "baddie" to not want to fight some prideful war/hunter when your a shaman with 500k hp its called not wasting your time and trying to avoid frustrations with an unbalanced system.
Gear is EVERYTHING in mop pvp, people arent exaggerating when they say you can be a gladiator skilled player in 520 and you will get crushed by any 550 noob out there, so guess what good players in fact most players in general arent going to waste their time in shit games that are unbalanced which is why nearly every gladiator and 1800+ player i know tanked mmr to boost their alts (and why most low rated players without skilled friends to carry them payed for boosts.)

You only get honor gear to make capping conquest easier, if your not in up to date conquest gear then you just dont pvp at all because its a waste of time in mop with iilvl differences, you do the bare minimum to cap until you catch up because serious pvp is not possible until your 550 or close to caught up in gear, so people will do the bare minimum required to finish their cap, which means if you can cap without doing honor grind then why bother getting honor gear? its not like you can do anything with that honor gear anyway because if you fight any 550 player you may as well be in blues.
Trying to play pvp seriously before then by playing out every game is stupid and a watse of time.

This problem could all be avoided if you gave undergeared chars a path to get conquest for catch up, a seperate low iilvl que for arenas with no ratings or more conq from random bgs maybe a 5% conquest points every daily bg win. Anything thats not 20+ hours and a week of grinding old dailies/wg + tol barad and spamming 5 mans for honor gear that only serves to making winning your 100 + arena games slightly less frustrating and depressing, ESPECIALLY at the end of an expansion where the goal should be to just let people have fun.

[PrairieChicken]

The normal BG change is absolutely horrible. Deserters increased like 10 times after this change

[Reveries1]

I was capping yesterday in 2v2 on my feral together with a 360k (360k) hp enhance at 1500 mmr. Teams in 522 gear were a FREE WIN for me to solo, so yeah, grievous gear = shit.

Prideful is much better than grievous
Grievous is much better than 496 gear.

Scaled down PvE gear is getting a hell of a lot closer to the 522 Grievous gear. What is it scaling down to now days? 537?


Would have been nice if the scaled honor gear up to what the scaled the pve gear down to.

[Icecreamcake]

The normal BG change is absolutely horrible. Deserters increased like 10 times after this change

On Horde, they're almost not worth it anymore waiting 8-10 minutes for a queue only to join a game in progress and perhaps being down or trailing

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

Here's another option.

How about, you have one MMR per Battle.Net account, and it ONLY increases. Ever. Even at the start of a new expansion, you retain your old MMR.

That way, you will always be matched up with opponents of overall roughly comparable experience and gear.