"Beta is Beta." And yet the stuff we voice our dislike for usually never gets changed

[DeathHunter]

Title. So sick of seeing the argument "Well, beta is beta....Nothing is set in stone...etc"

I've been playing this game for a long time, though I never payed attention to beta progress until cata was in Beta. In that time I have never seen blizzard revert anything from the beta. They tune damage/healing, switch/bake a few spells and this is best case scenario.

When have we ever complained about content or something in Beta and blizzard went "Oh, they really don't like where this is going. We should change it."

I know beta is for looking out for bugs/game breaking stuff (Although nowadays it seems more like a reason to keep subs *keep paying and you might get into beta!*) but they should take our feedback more to heart. They make the game, but we play it and pay for it.

I've heard recently that blizz believes only 3% of the players use forums. Why do we use forums? Because we LOVE the game and want the best for it. They need to acknowledge that and think of us as representative of the full player population. We are the ambassadors for WoW.

** A lot of replies are saying I'm complaining because my personal idea wasn't put in game, and I'd like to say I'm not mentioning what I personally want here, or anywhere. I am speaking for the large discussions with community driven activity, such as bringing back nighttime, or player housing, or garrisons being awful.

[SlippyCheeze]

Have you considered that, just maybe, your idea to create a new hero class that does twice the DPS of any other class is, y'know, maybe not actually the best idea ever?

Because I assure you that Blizzard do listen to feedback. What they don't do is listen to *your* feedback and enact it. They listen to what 7 million players actually do in game, and overall trends, and so forth.

Also, you might do well to consider Army of the Dead, that iconic Death Knight ability. Cut, then restored. Just sayin'

[Issalice]

They can't listen to everyone, and they can't please everyone. If they really do something so terrible that it is a deal breaker for a majority of the players they would change it. Right now the things people are pissed off about simply aren't that bad. There are a ton of things I would love them to change but I completely understand why they haven't/won't do so.

There is nothing wrong with voicing your opinion in hopes the people that can change things will take your voice into consideration. They encourage it, and I really believe them when they say they take people's opinions seriously. If you are that unhappy about an aspect of the game let them know, but don't take it personally when they don't listen to you.

[MyndZero]

I think your philosophy of beta is wrong.

Alpha = Implementing core mechanics, features, content.
Beta = Tuning, testing, bug fixing, optimising, etc.

Once they're in beta they have pretty much hit the point where they are happy with what's there and just need it tested. Now this isn't to say it's going to be exactly the same, because until your playing the game and giving it a real go you won't necessarily realise that something is missing, and in that event they will look to rectify that, be it tweaking existing systems or adding a new thing in.

[MetroStratics]

Because most of the stuff you guys complain about aren't worth the breath or even relevant.

[Leih]

They can't listen to everyone, and they can't please everyone. If they really do something so terrible that it is a deal breaker for a majority of the players they would change it. Right now the things people are pissed off about simply aren't that bad. There are a ton of things I would love them to change but I completely understand why they haven't/won't do so.

There is nothing wrong with voicing your opinion in hopes the people that can change things will take your voice into consideration. They encourage it, and I really believe them when they say they take people's opinions seriously. If you are that unhappy about an aspect of the game let them know, but don't take it personally when they don't listen to you.

Well, looks like this thread has been answered pretty quickly. Well said!

[Packing an i5]

agree with op 100 percent. The beta is just a chance to try the set in stone game early and get you pumped so you dont cancel your preorder.


Blizzard rarely listens to feedback, they did when most pvpers voiced negative oppinions about trial of the gladiator. I am one of the ones dissapointed by its removal i wanted a few days a week where you get all the gear for free to compete on equal playing field.

Me personally I started using the forums in 2012 for the first time voicing my strong opinions about the game's direction. Not once did i get a blue response or a response from Ghost crawler on twitter.

Ive been saying since the day cataclysm landed there are some seriously wrong things about wow now. No one listens no one cares. The game continues to go to shit and millions still bend over and take it in.

Im convinced Blizzard doesnt care one shred for pvp, any balance at all outside of 3s , spec diversity, class composition diversity, and they def care nothing about spec identity and character playstyle gameplay customization.

wow has become the King of generic casual mmos. Same old formula just takes less time to execute, terrible looking gear and a cash shop shoved down our throats with 30 dollar mounts Its horrible.

BLIZZARD WAITS 6 months to 1+ YEARS To fix major balance concerns between classes in pvp its horrendous.

The same specs have been OP/favorable for many years now

FROST
ARMS
AFFLICTION
SUB

same comps R/M/X, LSD, god comp, KFC, ect

Implement a god damn talent system too that actually gives me choice and control over how I play my character please.

GIVE ME ANOTHER VIABLE SPEC BESIDES SUB PVP AND JUST 1 VIABLE 3s COMP I BEG OF YOU

[Advo]

They vehemently will not change their design philosophy through the beta for sure. That's things like what they want classes and specs to do, no matter if the feedback is mixed to negative. I've yet to see a beta end with anyone changed on that front. I would have added zones but they did redo Jade Forest intro in MoP beta (almost universally for the better).

But little things like numbers, sometimes itemization, PvE encounters, they will poke and prod and make changes based on feedback. That's primarily what the beta is for. All they're looking for from testers is feedback on what doesn't work and what's missing, not a critique on design.

[4KhazModan]

Actually, things can change. Hell, when the Cata pre patch hit the ptr, I hopped on to check out the paladin changes. I noticed the protection rotation felt odd, and there was a lot of dead time where I was just sitting around waiting for CDs to get back up. So I sent in a ticket saying it felt odd, and lo and behold, when it hit live, Crusader Strike CD for protection was changed from 4.5 seconds to 3 seconds which made a world of difference. Why? Because me and a bunch of other people sent in feedback and they listened. So yes, beta is beta. Things do change. Iirc, in MoP beta, Jade Forest went through a big change, again, based on feedback.

[Darsithis]

They can't please everyone.

Also, remember that while you might be complaining and you might know a few other people who are doesn't mean that a majority is. Blizzard has access to tools that we don't that can show them what is really going on in the game.

[eem5]

IMO, it comes down to how you deliver the feedback and the circumstances surrounding the change in question.

Frothing at the mouth demands don't get things changed. Logical, clearly written posts do. Don't expect a grassroots campaign to grow around an issue and get changes in.

Also, sometimes Blizzard makes changes for reasons they don't disclose, or for reasons unpopular with players (like balancing classes, or higher level view alterations).

Development by vocal minority doesn't tend to work, and blizzard have often made it known they won't do it. The customer isn't magically always right.

My suggestion is, if you feel strongly about a change, write a clear, logical post on the topic. Review your post and strip out anything that doesn't directly support your argument. Then copy/paste your post into a feedback message off the blizz launcher, or a bug report/feedback off your account.

[Tierbook]

But WoW isn't in beta. It's in Alpha.

[Wondercrab]

They do tend to change quite a lot of stuff during beta/PTR cycles based on feedback, but it's usually pretty minor, such as the way a certain ability, item, or encounter functions etc.

When it comes to large-scale stuff, though, I agree. Blizzard rarely seem to iterate on their "big" ideas before releasing them to the playerbase at large. I believe their philosophy tends to be "better to try it and see if it works out, rather than never try at all".
Of course, when you look at things like the way reputations/dailies/spending JP/VP worked at the beginning of Pandaria, and the tuning of end-game content in early Cataclysm, it's pretty apparent that this mindset often causes major problems for players, usually lasting at least several months while the devs make small incremental changes to alleviate it.

I do sometimes wish they'd look at their own ideas with a little more scrutiny at times. We're going to see it happening all over again in WoD with no flying, and likely to a lesser degree with things like Garrison customisation and LFR loot.
Unfortunately with a game like WoW that's under constant development, there's not as much pressure on the devs to "get it right" before releasing content to the public, since they can always just change it later.

[Lessthanzer0]

They gave army of the dead back to dks after everyone complained and they also got rid of the whole active mana regen idea. Feedback is taken seriously but they cant implement everyone's opinion otherwise the game would be a mess and change on a daily basis.

[DeathHunter]

You are all playing to the point I'm trying to make.

Beta isn't for changes. And Blizzard does have tools we don't, so why would we think they actually need us to play Beta in the first place?

If they aren't going to listen to our creative feedback because they have a set in stone design already, and they don't need our 'technical expertise' then Beta is meaningless except from a marketing standpoint.

And, back to my original intention "beta is beta" but if it's not for making changes then it is just "Beta is a preview of what IS coming and what WILL happen."

[4KhazModan]

You are all playing to the point I'm trying to make.

Beta isn't for changes. And Blizzard does have tools we don't, so why would we think they actually need us to play Beta in the first place?

If they aren't going to listen to our creative feedback because they have a set in stone design already, and they don't need our 'technical expertise' then Beta is meaningless except from a marketing standpoint.

And, back to my original intention "beta is beta" but if it's not for making changes then it is just "Beta is a preview of what IS coming and what WILL happen."

It is for making changes though. They show us what they are doing, we leave feedback. Based on that feedback, they will change the game if they need to.

[Lessthanzer0]

You are all playing to the point I'm trying to make.

Beta isn't for changes. And Blizzard does have tools we don't, so why would we think they actually need us to play Beta in the first place?

If they aren't going to listen to our creative feedback because they have a set in stone design already, and they don't need our 'technical expertise' then Beta is meaningless except from a marketing standpoint.

And, back to my original intention "beta is beta" but if it's not for making changes then it is just "Beta is a preview of what IS coming and what WILL happen."

Beta is more used for finding bugs and tuning things properly. The internal and friends and family alpha is where they make major changes if needed. By the time it hits beta everything should be pretty final for the most part.

[Mormolyce]

A) It's alpha. Not the same thing.
B) Maybe you're not taking into account that your idea for the game sucks.
C) They take player feedback, but that doesn't mean we get content by vote. It's still their game.

[eem5]

Beta isn't for changes. And Blizzard does have tools we don't, so why would we think they actually need us to play Beta in the first place?

If they aren't going to listen to our creative feedback because they have a set in stone design already, and they don't need our 'technical expertise' then Beta is meaningless except from a marketing standpoint.

Beta is for testing load. Beta is for getting mod authors a chance to update mods. Beta tests ideas to the community to monitor feedback. Beta catches bugs before it goes live. Beta is for tuning bosses. Beta is for checking that quest text is enough to understand what to do, that dungeons and zones flow correctly, to make sure people don't get lost in cities.

The average population of wow doesn't tolerate bugs, downtime and issues the same way as a beta player does.

[Stormspellz]

Title. So sick of seeing the argument "Well, beta is beta....Nothing is set in stone...etc"

I've been playing this game for a long time, though I never payed attention to beta progress until cata was in Beta. In that time I have never seen blizzard revert anything from the beta. They tune damage/healing, switch/bake a few spells and this is best case scenario.

When have we ever complained about content or something in Beta and blizzard went "Oh, they really don't like where this is going. We should change it."

I know beta is for looking out for bugs/game breaking stuff (Although nowadays it seems more like a reason to keep subs *keep paying and you might get into beta!*) but they should take our feedback more to heart. They make the game, but we play it and pay for it.

I've heard recently that blizz believes only 3% of the players use forums. Why do we use forums? Because we LOVE the game and want the best for it. They need to acknowledge that and think of us as representative of the full player population. We are the ambassadors for WoW.

the "its beta" comment is usually focused on silly things like place holder names and glitchy things, actual "correctly" working things are always up to constructive critizim, while its true the "its beta" comment is thrown and proper discussion here and there, its mostly for the silly things people complain about.