State of the game??

[DeiviiDavy]

I bought a 2 month and only played 2-3 days of it. My server is just dead on the Republic side. I feel if they used a different freaking engine, this game would of been freaking amazing, but nope.. they had to pick the most budget-esque engine.

[Edge-]

I bought a 2 month and only played 2-3 days of it. My server is just dead on the Republic side. I feel if they used a different freaking engine, this game would of been freaking amazing, but nope.. they had to pick the most budget-esque engine.

Except that there's nothing provably wrong with the finished Hero Engine itself, at least not that we know of. The issue stemmed from the world BioWare's engineers did in finishing the early beta version of the engine they licensed. And at this point, the majority of the performance issues have been addressed, and its capabilities greatly expanded.

[DeiviiDavy]

Except that there's nothing provably wrong with the finished Hero Engine itself, at least not that we know of. The issue stemmed from the world BioWare's engineers did in finishing the early beta version of the engine they licensed. And at this point, the majority of the performance issues have been addressed, and its capabilities greatly expanded.

The engine in itself seems flawed. It just doesn't fit the type of game. Yes, it is an mmo engine, but I'd rather have them make an engine for the game. Just think about it, the game had the budget to do it and definitely had the time. They started the development in 2008, that gives them quite some time to make an engine. Also, in 2008, computers weren't as good/cheap as they were in 2011, so they still made the game run like crap for everyone.

The only engine I'd like for a Star Wars game to recycle would be frostbite (DICE) for Battlefront III, which they are doing. That makes me so damn happy, lol!

[Edge-]

The engine in itself seems flawed. It just doesn't fit the type of game. Yes, it is an mmo engine, but I'd rather have them make an engine for the game. Just think about it, the game had the budget to do it and definitely had the time. They started the development in 2008, that gives them quite some time to make an engine. Also, in 2008, computers weren't as good/cheap as they were in 2011, so they still made the game run like crap for everyone.

The only engine I'd like for a Star Wars game to recycle would be frostbite (DICE) for Battlefront III, which they are doing. That makes me so damn happy, lol!

Actually, they started development at the end of 05. Though that's if we're getting technically about when they started doing work on the project, and not necessarily the heavy lifting.

It's damn common to license engines, even in MMO's. WAR and Rift both use the Gamebryo Engine, Aion uses Cryengine, Tera uses Unreal, etc. Not every MMO needs its own custom engine, as those engines are perfectly capable of handling MMO's.

And as you mentioned, the Hero Engine was being built specifically for MMO's at the time BioWare licensed it. They apparently felt confident enough in the framework of the engine in the early beta and the capabilities of their engineers to finish it that they decided to license it. The end result was unfortunate, with its myriad of limitations (chat bubbles literally crashing the engine when tested) and it's extremely uneven initial performance. Mind you, performance isn't directly related to graphical quality. How engines load resources from the disk, distribute calculations on the CPU/GPU, handle callbacks etc. on the thousands of variations of computer hardware is extremely important. That's why games using the same engine with similar graphical fidelity can have dramatically different performance, or games that are graphically superior can actually run better than graphically inferior games.

For Frostbite, I have no clue how it would function in a MMO, or if it even has the core capability to do so. We know it can have significant netcode and online issues, as evidenced by the nearly yearlong saga of BF4's failures, so it's not as if it's a perfect engine either.

Though realistically, at this point the game performs very much as in intended on various setups. They've fixed glaring performance issues for the vast majority of folks. They've also been expanding its capabilities as time goes on, both in terms of small things (adding in animal mounts which were initially problematic) and broad systems (free flight space combat within arena's, and soon some very detailed and impressive housing, including guild capital ships and bases). So while it could still stand to improve, the same could be said of any engine, even the big name licensed ones.

One day they may even figure out how to put in chat bubbles without breaking the game...though I totally expect it to be unlockable from the cash shop, at which point the RP community would collectively flip their lids : P

[Gelda82]

One day they may even figure out how to put in chat bubbles without breaking the game...though I totally expect it to be unlockable from the cash shop, at which point the RP community would collectively flip their lids : P

Like the whole post, but I am still offended that the playerbase is & was okay with paying for new emotes. City of Heroes did it rarely, bundled with specific costume packs, but they added about 5 times as many new ones for free. That was a good way to treat your players, but apparently not the best way to monetize them. I dunno if I'd be okay with an EA-run City of Heroes or not... that's some serious food for thought, considering how fondly everyone generally thinks of them now that they're gone.

[Kelimbror]

Like the whole post, but I am still offended that the playerbase is & was okay with paying for new emotes.

To be completely objective, it's really that sort of thing that should be monetized. The spent a little bit of time making some extra animations. People really into RP or people who just like them are free to buy them, but they are in no way needed for anything. I'd prefer that over action bars, currency caps, and other things that actually affect your gameplay. To each their own though.

[Horidin]

I would think of it this way, Swtor is fun for the time being but I got bored with it at end game since it didn't have that "lively" feel to it. It gives content at a steady pace it seems but, like I said, I think of it as I would rather wait for amazing content rather than have constant "so-so" content.

Swtor has something going for itself and players do like the business model of getting decent content at a steady pace which works for it. They decided to adopt the F2P model for reasons that are obvious but it's still pretty ok to play. Blizzard is one company trying to give out content not only for 5 games currently but also a 6th game, a movie, and the convention which I wish I had the time to go to and they are doing it well. Sure there is a gap but the reward for waiting so long ends up making up for it. There is a reason why WoW is still #1.

Point is, play what you feel like playing. I played Swtor since I heard it went F2P and I was unsubbed from WoW to save money on gas since my classes our out of town but once I had my budget balanced again I quit Swtor and went back to WoW. There will ALWAYS be that negative person who perceives lack of content for a short time to be a death call for them but they tend to overreact since I am experiencing the same gap and I am not complaining

could not agree with you more, i actually stepped into swtor the past 2 weeks cause i am currently just taking a break from WoW till WoD comes out because i've downed garrosh normal and just did not have the fire to pursue and grind out heroic which can label me casual but i don't care.

the thing that turns me off about swtor being a preferred status player since i just don't want to pump in $15 a month into it. it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that bioware/EA nickle and dimes you on stuff behind pay walls that just make me scratch my head and it feels like they punish you for not being a sub, not sure why they think that is a good f2p model, even though personally i think swtor really isn't f2p i think they just have an extended free trial almost like anarchy online

[Edge-]

could not agree with you more, i actually stepped into swtor the past 2 weeks cause i am currently just taking a break from WoW till WoD comes out because i've downed garrosh normal and just did not have the fire to pursue and grind out heroic which can label me casual but i don't care.

the thing that turns me off about swtor being a preferred status player since i just don't want to pump in $15 a month into it. it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that bioware/EA nickle and dimes you on stuff behind pay walls that just make me scratch my head and it feels like they punish you for not being a sub, not sure why they think that is a good f2p model, even though personally i think swtor really isn't f2p i think they just have an extended free trial almost like anarchy online

Their F2P model really isn't very popular at all with most folks. But hey, it works. They raked in $130Mish last year from the cash shop alone, so no subscriptions. That's a solid amount of revenue for a MMO within a year.

Totally wish it was less restrictive too, though. I get really annoyed at the stuff like needing to purchase an unlock for hiding helms and the like : /

[Stormcall]

To be completely objective, it's really that sort of thing that should be monetized. The spent a little bit of time making some extra animations. People really into RP or people who just like them are free to buy them, but they are in no way needed for anything. I'd prefer that over action bars, currency caps, and other things that actually affect your gameplay. To each their own though.

Sums up my feelings, too. If you're gonna have an a market, things like emotes, mounts, and pets are the things that should be monetized...not things like how many credits you can earn or how many items you can send to another toon in a single mail...

[Evilfish]

Shit.

No.

Sick hobo shit.

Please post productively and do not spam. Infracted. -Edge

[Lothar]

Their F2P model really isn't very popular at all with most folks. But hey, it works. They raked in $130Mish last year from the cash shop alone, so no subscriptions. That's a solid amount of revenue for a MMO within a year.

Totally wish it was less restrictive too, though. I get really annoyed at the stuff like needing to purchase an unlock for hiding helms and the like : /

I had a break from wow for the last 3 months and played swtor during that time, eventually subbing for 2 months.
reverting to prefered player is really really terrible -I realize this topic has been discussed to death- but since I resubbed to wow have now no incentive to play swtor with a 350 k cred limit and 3 action bars on all my 3-6 characters (most of the lowlevel so some sort of dont count). initially I meant to continue playing swtor, but 3 action bars just doesnt work out and Im not spending my cartel coins for it. so there goes another player. mmos depend upon their communites, remember?

another thing that really bothered me is how the combat -compared to wow- feels sluggish and slow. it feels so unresponsive. in wow when I hit a key I get an instant response from the game - in swtor there always seems to be somewhat of a delay, small but very noticable. not really sure if its a performance issue.

[Kelimbror]

3 action bars just doesnt work out

While I completely agree going to preferred from a subscription stinks in a variety of ways, 3 action bars is plenty for every class in the game. I haven't had a single issue with needing more bars. I don't think needing bars for frivolous junk is really necessary. It's crappy that they have action bars behind a pay wall in any case, but 3 is an adequate number.

another thing that really bothered me is how the combat -compared to wow- feels sluggish and slow. it feels so unresponsive. in wow when I hit a key I get an instant response from the game - in swtor there always seems to be somewhat of a delay, small but very noticable. not really sure if its a performance issue.

Perception/performance issues. It's mostly your eyes that are the problem in this case. SWTOR abilities happen as soon as you press the button, just like WoW and pretty much every MMO. What doesn't happen is a super speed animation that skips frames depending on what other actions you are doing. WoW does that, which is what makes it feel 'smooth'. Essentially there are no physics in WoW combat animations...it's like you are in a vacuum with no resistance and every action can be immediately turned into something else. Some things like sound queues and flashing numbers also enhance this effect psychologically. In the end, nothing different is actually happening. You push buttons and damage happens the same way. It just looks different to your eyeballs.

Don't take this as saying you're wrong for preferring one or the other, because anything noticeable still affects your perception, but just explaining what is really going on.

[Edge-]

another thing that really bothered me is how the combat -compared to wow- feels sluggish and slow. it feels so unresponsive. in wow when I hit a key I get an instant response from the game - in swtor there always seems to be somewhat of a delay, small but very noticable. not really sure if its a performance issue.

What you're seeing is more than likely an animation windup/delay that does not affect the actual functionality of the ability. I've noticed it from time to time as well, but it doesn't actually impact the game. WoW has simple animations, with ability animations designed to clip/override all existing animations. So if you're running sideways you stop running and do your animation while moving, if you're mid autoattack you stop your autoattack animation and instantly transition to your ability animation. It's smart design on Blizz's part and gives the feeling of hyper-responsiveness.

Since SWTOR abilities all have their own unique animations and there's no passive autoattack, animations play out their full set before resetting to the default "passive" state waiting for a new animation. This leads to a feel of "sluggishness", especially with longer animations. However, that visual "sluggishness" isn't represented in the actual mechanics of the game (outside of the ability delay that has existed in the past and is entirely unrelated to this), as abilities trigger on the server side of things regardless of your characters animation status.

[Shardik]

I've got a question for ya'll, I picked the game back up for the free week of 2X XP, but having a bit of trouble. I usually play exclusively with my brother so there are always 2 of us, and we do fine. Whenever I play my Jedi Shadow though, I almost die from every little pull. Doesn't matter if I go tank spec, or dps spec, if I use a healer companion or a tank, every battle almost kills the both of us. I'm around 36 on quesh.

Is the game tuned very tightly where you have to use every single skill to the max to do well while leveling, or is Jedi Shadow undertuned while leveling, or am I just undergeared/bad at the game?

As for the cash shop, the main things that bug me are the buying head slot, ability to use the GTN with more than 5 items, nerfed xp, and inability to actually equip purples. I can live with almost anything else they do though. It helped that the recruit a friend gives old players a pack with unify color and a few other quality of life unlocks.

[Revik]

I've got a question for ya'll, I picked the game back up for the free week of 2X XP, but having a bit of trouble. I usually play exclusively with my brother so there are always 2 of us, and we do fine. Whenever I play my Jedi Shadow though, I almost die from every little pull. Doesn't matter if I go tank spec, or dps spec, if I use a healer companion or a tank, every battle almost kills the both of us. I'm around 36 on quesh.

Is the game tuned very tightly where you have to use every single skill to the max to do well while leveling, or is Jedi Shadow undertuned while leveling, or am I just undergeared/bad at the game?

As for the cash shop, the main things that bug me are the buying head slot, ability to use the GTN with more than 5 items, nerfed xp, and inability to actually equip purples. I can live with almost anything else they do though. It helped that the recruit a friend gives old players a pack with unify color and a few other quality of life unlocks.

SWTOR's leveling can be pretty tough. If you get an unexpected add or group you could be done for especially if you are trying to take down a yellow elite. Generally speaking I beileve SWTOR is tuned for you to be able to take down 4 commons, 2 commons + 1 silver, 2 silver, or 1 gold. If you see anything outside of this you could be in trouble and will need to use cooldowns. If you are having issues even taking down these normal groups you may want to take a look at your gear and make sure you got adequate gear. If not spend your planetary coms to get a better weapon or armor usually this is the reason.

Another thing is by the time you reach like level 30 you should have figured out your opening sequence of moves and then what it takes to finish efficiently. Normally it is logic to take down the commons first then work on the silver. Don't be afraid to use stuns or cooldowns to make things easier.

I hope this helps.

[Shardik]

SWTOR's leveling can be pretty tough. If you get an unexpected add or group you could be done for especially if you are trying to take down a yellow elite. Generally speaking I beileve SWTOR is tuned for you to be able to take down 4 commons, 2 commons + 1 silver, 2 silver, or 1 gold. If you see anything outside of this you could be in trouble and will need to use cooldowns. If you are having issues even taking down these normal groups you may want to take a look at your gear and make sure you got adequate gear. If not spend your planetary coms to get a better weapon or armor usually this is the reason.

Another thing is by the time you reach like level 30 you should have figured out your opening sequence of moves and then what it takes to finish efficiently. Normally it is logic to take down the commons first then work on the silver. Don't be afraid to use stuns or cooldowns to make things easier.

I hope this helps.

That does help. I think one of my problems is I've gotten too used to wow, where if you're not pulling big groups you don't take any real damage.

[Tescord]

I can usually wipe out 3 groups at the same time with my guardian so don't know why you are having trouble

[Tyris Flare]

Shadow is one of the rougher classes to level imo, especially at the lower levels. You are melee and pretty squishy.

[Stormcall]

Shadow is one of the rougher classes to level imo, especially at the lower levels. You are melee and pretty squishy.

You also get a tank companion right off the bat, which kinda makes being squishy less of an issue, as long as you send him in first to pick up aggro. Plus you have the option of simply avoiding a lot of fighting via stealth, so it kinda evens out IMO.

[Duravian]

Hey everyone, so Im curious as to what the state of the game is currently. I played a Sith Juggernaut and was enjoying it until I hit about level 42 and got EXTREMELY bored of Voss.

Any insight? Might I enjoy it as a casual time-sink? Are juggs in a better place than they were within the first year of launch?

I'm.. pretty sure Voss is 45 - 47..

- - - Updated - - -

Shadow is one of the rougher classes to level imo, especially at the lower levels. You are melee and pretty squishy.

Marauder/Sentinels are melee and ULTRA squishy, so that's even harder.