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  1. #101
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Sadly... the OP is nowadays rather the rule and not the exception.
    The game's community became utterly toxic and disgusting. What the real bad part is, how it's coloring off into guilds as well.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diabl0 View Post
    You get mad when you don't get invited because of your item level but you're ok with it if you're already in?
    Yet he claims he still does more dps on his 520 druid than the pugs with 545+ gear his friend invites. It was mean't to be a figure of speech. Gear helps but if you don't understand mechanics you will still fail.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Sadly... the OP is nowadays rather the rule and not the exception.
    The game's community became utterly toxic and disgusting. What the real bad part is, how it's coloring off into guilds as well.
    You had bad players in pubs in vanilla. I don't see how much has changed from then to OP's story except dungeon to complain about. That and nobody was able to pub naxx in vanilla like you can with SoO
    Last edited by Barnabas; 2014-06-25 at 07:33 PM.

  3. #103
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post

    You had bad players in pugs in vanilla. I don't see how much has changed from then to OP's story except dungeon to complain about.
    One term....
    CROSS REALM

    People are no more accountable for acting like a cunt..
    Up until the cross realm feature came along, everyone knew how they can and will in fact be blacklisted on the realm.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  4. #104
    Scarab Lord roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Basically, everyone who is good has already gotten their ahead of the curve achievement and has stopped raiding. I see not point in continuing once you have the wolf. Unless you're achievement running
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players

  5. #105
    Haven't really pugged much of anything since wrath.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    One term....
    CROSS REALM

    People are no more accountable for acting like a cunt..
    Up until the cross realm feature came along, everyone knew how they can and will in fact be blacklisted on the realm.
    Still the same attitudes my friend. Lists still work but it takes more effort than people are wanting to put forth to merge them across realm.

  7. #107
    I honestly think you guys are making a lot of this up, or exaggerating greatly. Look at Phatthealz armory, as a 549 with a ele neck in inventory to make it 550 (554 now after I got upgrades) shaman healer, I pugged into normal SoO for all of wing 1, Nazgrim, and Flex off of Oqueue, and downed those bosses. I literally log on now 1-2x a week when I'm not playing Civ 5 and Dota 2, it's not like I'm scouring Oqueue. This is there when I log on.

    Like, I don't understand why it's so difficult for you guys to shrug things off. Maybe it's because I play dota 2 and when I miss a last hit, I get peruvians and russians throwing the game that when someone calls me a "cunt" for saying "no" I just laugh. Cuz fuck them, I don't care. There's billions of groups, they can suck my dick, I know when I am rude and when I am not.

  8. #108
    The Lightbringer The Caretaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Basically, everyone who is good has already gotten their ahead of the curve achievement and has stopped raiding. I see not point in continuing once you have the wolf. Unless you're achievement running
    That's effectively my problem. I stopped raiding after killing Lei Shen back in tier 15, and I've recently decided to try and get a wolf. Alas, I'm too far behind on item level for anyone to invite me, no matter my raiding history, and flex groups (where you can drag up your item level) are typically dreadful; assuming I can even get invited. One group wanted an item level of 550 as well as the Curve achievement. My only other options are to grind valor until I'm blue in the face, or grind Burdens of Eternity which don't drop.

    I even tried oQueue and got nowhere.

    And yeah, my experience is that the community is worse than ever it was (playing since 2.1). People will obviously argue that it's always been this bad, but that's just not my experience. Every extra queue provides more opportunities for anonymous griefing, and the community has gotten worse as a result... As well as other design decisions that have put the community at its own throat. Personally, I think the real downturn happened in Cataclysm and nothing has been able to stop it from deteriorating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, it is possible for people, many people actually, to not think very highly of World of Warcraft. Those self same people may even consider other games in the genre superior due to their own subjective qualifiers. Qualifiers which are just as valid as the subjective qualifiers of those whom believe World of Warcraft is a "23 out of 10".

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by middling View Post
    You know what I did? I left and didn't go back.
    You do have that option, I think the game would survive without your l33t mad skillz
    Oh boy, they are allready here.

    RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

    Seriously though, GJ on walking out on a restaurant. Sure is the same thing as a game you´ve dedicated a good part of your life to.
    I wonder whats wrong with people that they actually defend this kind of behaviour and call someone that disproves of total retardation of a community a whiner.
    Last edited by Shiift; 2014-06-25 at 09:37 PM.

  10. #110
    WoW should come with a disclaimer. Join a guild or don't do group content. Even the worst guild is still better than what is out there lurking in trade chat waiting to crush all your hopes and dreams.

  11. #111
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buildapanda View Post
    90% of the people in this game are bad. In a 25 man group you'll maybe get 2 or 3 people that can outshine everyone else in their role, the rest are just dead weight.
    Your hyperbole is ridiculous. You can't carry 22 other people in a 25 man fight. 3 or 4, probably. But not 22

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    One term....
    CROSS REALM

    People are no more accountable for acting like a cunt..
    Up until the cross realm feature came along, everyone knew how they can and will in fact be blacklisted on the realm.
    They weren't then, either. People started over with new names all the time. Even then there were always new players and pug leaders who didn't know the person. The community has had toxic elements from the start.



  12. #112
    The Patient SwedetasticGames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrgannus View Post
    Gearscore, and later ilvl, killed the community more than anything. Even in your arguments you are often stating people's ilvl and others in your raid won't take people based on ilvl. Ilvl ilvl ilvl.

    Well, the funny thin about ilvl is people want you to be literally higher than what drops from the raid. I wish this was an exaggeration, but it's not. It comes from an assumption that everyone massively sucks and that gear will fix it. Not only is this lazy, it is poisonously destructive. Raids are tuned to be cleared (admittedly with a degree of real challenge) with the gear of the previous tier. A 525 ilvl whatever is technically geared for SoO normal. Yes. Yes. That is how the design works. If they are underperforming it is because they are underperforming.

    Sorry for the rant, but I've had elitists rage about gearscore and ilvl since Wrath and it has always been so stupid to me from the beginning.
    I hade this issue back in Wrath already. "Wanna clear normal ICC? Make sure you got the HC version of the gear from there minimum!"
    Like what the actual fuck? Logic, people!? XD

  13. #113
    The Patient DoubleT's Avatar
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    There's a reason I try to avoid pugging like the plague.

  14. #114
    I've had my fair share of terrible people in flex but I usually ignore it because most people outgear SoO so much by now that 1 person wont be a problem for the most part.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by SwedetasticGames View Post
    I hade this issue back in Wrath already. "Wanna clear normal ICC? Make sure you got the HC version of the gear from there minimum!"
    Like what the actual fuck? Logic, people!? XD
    Such a fallacy. Before Gearscore and ilvl people talked about their gear in terms of tier. I.e. I have full T1, I have T4/5. LFM Gruul, T4 minimum. Equipment requirements have always been in the game.

  16. #116
    Dreadlord Aurabolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrgannus View Post
    Gearscore, and later ilvl, killed the community more than anything. Even in your arguments you are often stating people's ilvl and others in your raid won't take people based on ilvl. Ilvl ilvl ilvl.

    Well, the funny thin about ilvl is people want you to be literally higher than what drops from the raid. I wish this was an exaggeration, but it's not. It comes from an assumption that everyone massively sucks and that gear will fix it. Not only is this lazy, it is poisonously destructive. Raids are tuned to be cleared (admittedly with a degree of real challenge) with the gear of the previous tier. A 525 ilvl whatever is technically geared for SoO normal. Yes. Yes. That is how the design works. If they are underperforming it is because they are underperforming.

    Sorry for the rant, but I've had elitists rage about gearscore and ilvl since Wrath and it has always been so stupid to me from the beginning.
    Someone finally said it.

    THIS is the reason LFR and LFD were created in the first place. Folks who were technically geared enough to get into the current tier were being shut out for not having strong gear, 8/10 times through no fault of their own. 8/10 times they're doing the instance for the first time or the RNG Gods forsook them on loot drops. Not the popular reasons people like to throw around.

    For those who started playing WoW from Cata onward or just skipped WotLK, Gearscore was a system used server-side to shut people out of PUG Raids and Dungeons pre-LFD. It got so bad, LFD was introduced mid-Wrath to help address the problem the majority of players were having: They were geared enough to get into a dungeon or heroic but were turned away because their Gearscore wasn't close to or above 2000 (the minimum to even be considered for Naxx 25). After the Vote to Kick feature was tweaked at the end of Wrath to address abuse of the system, Blizzard started giving Tanks and Later Healers a little something extra to address toxic behavior.

    ...See where I'm going with this?

    The whole "Dumbing down of WoW" conspiracy theory people like to bitch about is just Blizzard doing its job to ensure folks don't have to put up with toxic players if they can avoid it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    World of Warcraft has been played by so many people that it's hard to get a reliable source of new players into the game. Add to that a toxic community that expects perfection out of people who have never played and you have a recipe for decline.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amry View Post
    Only one faction receiving something completely new? Absolutely not going to happen. The QQ is so massive it will break the QQ Pillar in the Elemental Plane of QQ and unleash Kiukiuwing, the Aspect of QQs.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrgannus View Post
    Gearscore, and later ilvl, killed the community more than anything. Even in your arguments you are often stating people's ilvl and others in your raid won't take people based on ilvl. Ilvl ilvl ilvl.

    Well, the funny thin about ilvl is people want you to be literally higher than what drops from the raid. I wish this was an exaggeration, but it's not. It comes from an assumption that everyone massively sucks and that gear will fix it. Not only is this lazy, it is poisonously destructive. Raids are tuned to be cleared (admittedly with a degree of real challenge) with the gear of the previous tier. A 525 ilvl whatever is technically geared for SoO normal. Yes. Yes. That is how the design works. If they are underperforming it is because they are underperforming.

    Sorry for the rant, but I've had elitists rage about gearscore and ilvl since Wrath and it has always been so stupid to me from the beginning.
    I didn't think you were ranting, and I agree with you 100%. I have often wondered what would happen if Blizzard added a similar ilevel requirement to dungeon and raid groups, to prevent the situation you just described, and other carries and zergs across the board. Something like everyone in the raid has to be +/- 3 ilevel of each other. I have a feeling it would make people like the OP quit the game in droves, but that wouldn't be a bad thing. It would revive the community and the teamwork part of guilds. Bliz will never do it, but a girl can dream.

  18. #118
    Scarab Lord roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    I've never had a bad flex, and I started with an ilvl of 523
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Lubricious View Post
    It's the end of the expansion, with a tier which is running way too long. This means most skilled players have long since stopped raiding anything below normal (if they are still raiding at all), unless they are on an alt that is undergeared (which will presumably move to normal before long). Also, the extra time for the casuals to catch up has given them now the opportunity to reach gear levels that suggest they are ready for flex. Unfortunately these people didn't even pay attention to the mechanics in LFR, let alone flex. So now they are expecting the same bad play they see in LFR to work for flex, and that almost always leads to blaming a tank that knows what they are doing.

    I have two toons that tank. When you are doing LFR or flex, there is a roughly 50% chance that the other tank will either be bad at tanking, or just not know any of the fight mechanics. It makes tanking incredibly difficult. It's doubly frustrating when you have tanked normals on that toon, and people talk to you like you don't know the fights.

    There's not much you can do except what you tried to do with that second group which you ran. Tell people before you queue it up that you know what you're doing, and that if anyone tries to give you a crap strat or whines in general, you'll just remove them from the group. Then it won't be a surprise when someone like that mage is immediately shown the door. You're still going to have to deal with morons showing up, because at this point flex is LFR 1.5. The addition of the extra upgrade slots really encouraged more people to start running flex that have no idea what to do in there.
    QFT.

    If it were a fresh tier, there'd be a lot more solid players running. However, it's mostly chaff now.

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