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  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral Memory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didacticus Syntacticus View Post
    You got kicked, and there is a .1% chance it was for some incomprehensible reason, and a 99.9% chance it was for a perfectly understandable reason.
    What you call 'incomprehensible reason' is perfectly comprehensible: for example the fact that I may be competing on the loot with someone else.

    What - I believe - you are suggesting by juxtaposing 'incomprehensibe' vs. 'comprehensible reason' is probably the fact that I was kicked for being poorly geared or having bad attitude or ninja pulling, etc. I might state otherwise, post screenshots, link my armory, whatever, but it's pointless: the actual truth is rather for a GM to investigate, while you're just playing the assumptions game (other than filling your reasoning with logical fallacies). Anyway, what matters the most is that you groundlessly assume that people get kicked for rightful reasons in the 99.9% of the circumstances. Well, the pretended accuracy of your argument is just a display of hyperboles and unproven assumptions.

    So, in conclusion, thanks for your feedback on what you think I may have done: that's beyond the point.
    It's interesting, instead, that you believe that people get kicked nearly always for rightful reasons. How so? For example, it was even discussed in the early days of the dungeon finder that people click 'yes' on the vote to kick without even reading the reason nor wondering if there is one, as long as it's not the tank nor the healer. And that was an issue beofre that the dungeon deserter was added as an effect of being kicked. Having a fourth stranger click 'yes' on the vote is, in fact, far from unlikely.
    Finally, from your assumptions, you seem to derive the fairness of the rule.

    The bottom line is: the deserter debuff as an effect of the kick was implemented - as I read and as I understand - in order to punish players that would sit at the entrance, refuse to leave and do nothing. So, the system is intended to deal with wrongful behaviour. On the other hand, the system itself can be easily exploited for other kind of wrongful behaviour (as I experienced today). So, I see the issue that they were trying to address, but my point is exactly that the rule was implemented poorly and it's an example of bad design.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fang7986 View Post
    OP there is nothing stopping you from making your own groups outside of dungeon finder, then maybe this wouldn't happen
    There goes the scripted answer.
    Who said that I cannot?
    Last edited by Memory; 2014-06-25 at 03:53 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Memory View Post
    I just had a weird experience: I joined a random dungeon on my level 87 hunter; less than one minute into the dungeon, as the tank moves in for the first pull, I get 'removed from the group' and I obtain the 'Dungeon Deserter' debuff.
    First of all, it used to be that you couldn't vote to kick players within the first minutes of the dungeon; I guess that changed.
    Secondly, how comes you get the 'Dungeon Deserter' for being removed? That's a contradiction in terms.

    Here's a discussion on the same topic: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...4032700?page=1

    I guess the issue must have been discussed already on this forum as well. Well, sorry if I'm late. Anyway, I think it's one of the most retarded rules that I have ever seen in a videogame: in order to punish people who would sit at the entrance and ask for being kicked, they implemented a rule that can easily be abused with no other restriction than having three persons agreeing on the abuse (wow, as if that's unlikely to happen). I am surprised.

    Voice your opinion.
    even if they kicked u for no reason, theres an easy way to avoid being kicked. just MD threat to the tank and pull instantly. as long as ur always in combat its pretty hard to get kicked. u can also delay rolls on items too. ive had people kick me for no reason before so i learned a few tricks.

  3. #23
    It's possible that, example: a group of four friends were doing a dungeon together and accidentally queued for another when they meant to invite another friend.

    I actually didn't know that gave you deserter.
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  4. #24
    Moderator Wilderness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memory View Post
    The bottom line is: the deserter debuff as an effect of the kick was implemented - as I read and as I understand - in order to punish players that would sit at the entrance, refuse to leave and do nothing. So, the system is intended to deal with wrongful behaviour. On the other hand, the system itself can be easily exploited for other kind of wrongful behaviour (as I experienced today). So, I see the issue that they were trying to address, but my point is exactly that the rule was implemented poorly and it's an example of bad design.
    So what would be a better design?

    Yes, the way it currently is can be abused by groups of 4 that queue together. However, that is going to be less common than the people who were abusing the fact that you didn't get a debuff if kicked, so the way it currently works is better overall for more people. If you have an idea that can't be abused by anyone at all but still covers these issues by all means share it.
    Raids & Dungeons Mod | Ashamanxx | <Despotism>, 2/7M, 2 Days/Week US-Greymane

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Memory View Post
    the actual truth is rather for a GM to investigate
    Thanks for the good laugh.
    I don't really see how it can easily be exploited given it's close to impossible to remove someone from a 5 man heroic without interrupting the instance and possible waiting for longer than a clear would have taken. I agree though that the system needs some updates - it never should be that annoying to remove someone.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Memory View Post
    I just had a weird experience: I joined a random dungeon on my level 87 hunter; less than one minute into the dungeon, I get 'removed from the group' and I obtain the 'Dungeon Deserter' debuff.
    highlighted why you got kicked!

    I only jest, but most likely it was a guild group who was waiting for their 5th to log on or some other reason.

  7. #27
    Because your are a hunter I am going to go with;

    A) You had your pet on autoattack.
    B) You had Aspect of the Pack on.

    Don't worry this happens all the time, I am in groups that kick hunters at least once a week for these reasons. They probably didn't know why either.

  8. #28
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotcha View Post
    Because your are a hunter I am going to go with;

    A) You had your pet on autoattack.
    B) You had Aspect of the Pack on.

    Don't worry this happens all the time, I am in groups that kick hunters at least once a week for these reasons. They probably didn't know why either.
    What do you mean on autoattack? You mean aggressive stance, the one that automatically attacks anything within range? That's been removed quite a long time ago.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Adramalech View Post
    What do you mean on autoattack? You mean aggressive stance, the one that automatically attacks anything within range? That's been removed quite a long time ago.
    Wait...you mean the hunters have been doing it on purpose the whole time!?

  10. #30
    It was probably a guild group 4-manning dungeons. You get more exp that way. That's about all I can think of....or the OP did something that irked the others and warranted the kick.

    Not sure.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorakh View Post
    That's wrong. I've been kicked once in the first ten seconds of entering a fresh dungeon.
    Same, sometimes you can get kicked even before entering the dungeon, during the load screen....

  12. #32
    I vote kick people without full heirlooms. I'm not getting paid to carry people.

  13. #33
    It's funny, in all of MoP, including leveling 5 alts 15-90 through only the dungeon finder, I've never been kicked, once.

    I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I think how often people get kicked by trolls is vastly out of proportion to the number of times the group had a reason, and that person just doesn't agree with it.

  14. #34
    I've had a few groups whose reasons were as retarded as "He has the cash shop transmog helm".

  15. #35
    Some guy wanted to inspect you, but instead pressed kick and the others just went with the flow.

    I thought there is a grace period of 10-15 mins where ppl cant be kicked .. always happens where 1 guy is afking straight after starting the instance.

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