View Poll Results: How would you grade the past three seasons of PVP under Holinka's leadership?

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  • A: It's never been better!

    55 14.75%
  • B: It's been better, but it's not bad.

    112 30.03%
  • C: It could be worse but base resilience keeps this guy off the honor roll.

    74 19.84%
  • D: More mistakes than anything.

    54 14.48%
  • F: Complete disaster!

    78 20.91%
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  1. #101
    High Overlord monkieassasin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Obviously Holinka doesn't deserve the full fault for MoP PvP - he was hired on in like ~5.1 when PvP was already wrecked - and his power is restrained because Blizzard only makes small changes over the course of years, even when they know things are really wrong (which is a mistake, IMO).

    With that said, you can't excuse him from MoP PvP either - he's been around long enough - and he's made some really dumb comments during his time in this office. If Blizzard only puts people in the PvP office to create fall-guys to take the brunt of the complaints - like White House press correspondents - then shame on Blizzard: but it's still our job to be honest about our perspective of MoP PvP regardless of whether we think Holinka was empowered to effect it or not.

    I think Holinka lacks sufficient power to create meaningful improvements. I also think Holinka doesn't really see the problems - and/or doesn't see solutions to those problems. If he saw MoP PvP the way I do, and I think most people do - he would be fighting harder to fix it - he would be more vocal about the problems - and he would be pushing to try more solutions. Maybe he thinks if he speaks up he will lose his job or something - but the only conclusion I draw is that either he's oblivious, or inept, or a coward.

    Harsh, I know. MoP PvP is the worst competitive PvP in WoW history IMO - and the dumbing down in WOD doesn't promise to make it better: just easier to skill cap. Either it's Holinka's fault for not addressing it, or it's Holinka's fault for not fighting harder to fix it - but some chunk of the blame has to lie with him - and I can't give him a grade worth being proud of given that.
    This right here. People are giving him a hard time because of the state of MoP, but he literally was hired AT THE BEGINNING of MoP, and had to spend a few months learning how the game engine worked in order to give meaningful ideas. Since he has been around, EVERYTHING ive loved about MoP was introduced, and he has completely heard all of our feedback in MoP about CC, burst, and CDs, and was the main guy who was saying they were wanting to change that. The guy imo has been very good so far in his job.

    I do think that he could have pushed to make the changes that are coming in WoD BEFORE wod came out honestly though. Spending 2 years having all the instant CC and burst fest ruin the meta game, especially for certain specs so much so that balance for them has not been as bad as this since BC, is where I would fault him.

    A++++++++ for keeping pve gear out of pvp though. THAT was something I do not miss, and am so glad they have made sure has not occurred all this expac.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by monkieassasin View Post
    This right here. People are giving him a hard time because of the state of MoP, but he literally was hired AT THE BEGINNING of MoP,
    He made tons of terrible choices for changes and defended his terrible choices on twitter. You can't blame him for 5.0 but you sure can blame him for the rest as there were tons of terrible pvp only changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by monkieassasin View Post
    A++++++++ for keeping pve gear out of pvp though. THAT was something I do not miss, and am so glad they have made sure has not occurred all this expac.
    Yea too bad this was the worst pvp expansion ever in 10 years but grats at stopping pve gear and pvp being worse than it was with pve in it...

    Wod is not looking better on most of the issues mop has and like always new problems coming into to replace anything that was fixed. And before someone says its just beta people said the same thing in the betas for 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 how did that turn out? 10 year record of failing at every first patch of expansions.
    Last edited by wow; 2014-07-04 at 05:45 AM.

  3. #103
    High Overlord monkieassasin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    He made tons of terrible choices for changes and defended his terrible choices on twitter. You can't blame him for 5.0 but you sure can blame him for the rest as there were tons of terrible pvp only changes.


    Yea too bad this was the worst pvp expansion ever in 10 years but grats at stopping pve gear and pvp being worse than it was with pve in it...

    Wod is not looking better on most of the issues mop has and like always new problems coming into to replace anything that was fixed. And before someone says its just beta people said the same thing in the betas for 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 how did that turn out? 10 year record of failing at every first patch of expansions.
    At least they ahve a dedicated PVP dev now, which for those other betas they did not. And on top of that, they have shown a remarkable amount of interest in making sure pvp is viable this time around compared to the other betas. In the other betas, you could swear that the only one who was really making the decisions was Watcher. If it was negative at all for PVE, then pvp was sacrificed everytime for it. I dont see that this time around, so I do think itll end up being different.
    And god i hope so. I love this game, and honestly they have a good chance to make a comeback to last a few more years if they get this expac right.

  4. #104
    What bugs me the most is how easy the issues in pvp would be to fix without overhauling anything nor affecting PvE in the slightest. Making a different scaling for pvp power based on spec (already exists), so for example hunters with the same amount pvp power get 50% increased dmg while a feral gets 65%, thus fixing any out of control damage or too low of damage. Altering things in instanced pvp only (already exists) like tweaking health pools and increasing mana costs. Amazingly simple changes, of which similar effects are already present, could fix, or at least improve, many of the problems with pvp right now. Thats why its so difficult for me to give any sort of sympathy to the people in charge of pvp balance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Getting the phrase "PUSSY DESTROYER" tattoo'd on your face isn't a smart move for your career.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by monkieassasin View Post
    At least they ahve a dedicated PVP dev now, which for those other betas they did not.
    I'm sure they had one just not one they advertised which actually makes it worse "oh look heres the guy to fix pvp" jk just as bad ....

  6. #106
    High Overlord monkieassasin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    What bugs me the most is how easy the issues in pvp would be to fix without overhauling anything nor affecting PvE in the slightest. Making a different scaling for pvp power based on spec (already exists), so for example hunters with the same amount pvp power get 50% increased dmg while a feral gets 65%, thus fixing any out of control damage or too low of damage. Altering things in instanced pvp only (already exists) like tweaking health pools and increasing mana costs. Amazingly simple changes, of which similar effects are already present, could fix, or at least improve, many of the problems with pvp right now. Thats why its so difficult for me to give any sort of sympathy to the people in charge of pvp balance.
    Its because they have some sort of philosophy that they want things to be "simple" and not overly complicated. Frankly, if things get complicated, i dont care....
    And i think that if how things worked under the hood got overly complicated, most other players would not either. Most people dont know much about how a car actually works, but that does not matter. As long as it runs, they are satisfied.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by monkieassasin View Post
    Its because they have some sort of philosophy that they want things to be "simple" and not overly complicated. Frankly, if things get complicated, i dont care....
    And i think that if how things worked under the hood got overly complicated, most other players would not either. Most people dont know much about how a car actually works, but that does not matter. As long as it runs, they are satisfied.
    Yea I understand, but its not like they already don't have it overly complicated already. Where in the world (in the game) would you find out how ilvl scaling works in bgs? Or how fcs take more damage if tank specced? Or how pve trinkets, meta gems, and legendary cloak procs work in instanced pvp? No where does it tell you any of that, we know about it from forums and keeping up with shit that blizz does outside of the game. How simple would it be to have a "PVP Info Tab" that gave a rundown of shit like that? Like "hey guys in this battleground your health increases by 50% and mana cost of your heals by 50%, in addition ... etc." It pains me at the simplicity.

    Edit: Rant continues!

    And fixing pvp vs pve gear in world pvp? Why make base resil and roundabout things like the trinket 2set to give pvpers an "advantage"? Set base resil to 40% and a hardcap at 80%, and make pvp power give resil as well. Enough that full prideful puts you at that 80% cap. Then buff base resil to 80% in rated play so that everyone has the same resil since its already capped. Mind = blown.

    Hard for me to justify keeping things so unbalanced for so long when tweaking a % or 2 here and there is all it could take.
    Last edited by Hand Banana; 2014-07-04 at 07:40 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Getting the phrase "PUSSY DESTROYER" tattoo'd on your face isn't a smart move for your career.

  8. #108
    High Overlord monkieassasin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    Yea I understand, but its not like they already don't have it overly complicated already. Where in the world (in the game) would you find out how ilvl scaling works in bgs? Or how fcs take more damage if tank specced? Or how pve trinkets, meta gems, and legendary cloak procs work in instanced pvp? No where does it tell you any of that, we know about it from forums and keeping up with shit that blizz does outside of the game. How simple would it be to have a "PVP Info Tab" that gave a rundown of shit like that? Like "hey guys in this battleground your health increases by 50% and mana cost of your heals by 50%, in addition ... etc." It pains me at the simplicity.

    Edit: Rant continues!

    And fixing pvp vs pve gear in world pvp? Why make base resil and roundabout things like the trinket 2set to give pvpers an "advantage"? Set base resil to 40% and a hardcap at 80%, and make pvp power give resil as well. Enough that full prideful puts you at that 80% cap. Then buff base resil to 80% in rated play so that everyone has the same resil since its already capped. Mind = blown.

    Hard for me to justify keeping things so unbalanced for so long when tweaking a % or 2 here and there is all it could take.
    Your first point is pretty dead on. The game is already pretty complicated. I dont hear people describing about how complicated little nuances like that are in pvp in MoP unless they are a totally new person to pvp or a pver who never pvps at all. I havent heard any serious complaints about it. But what I do hear everyone complain about is too much burst, too much CC, and clearly OP mechanics not being reined in for a whole expansion.

    Like really.... Gateway.... It was not ONLY OP in PVP all expac, but even in pve!!! AND THEY DID NOTHING TO NERF IT! Why? Because, and I quote, "We do not want to nerf warlocks right now since it would negatively effect guilds who are doing progression in SoO currently". Like.... WTF....? WHY was this not fixed BEFORE 5.4?? I dont get it.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by monkieassasin View Post
    Like really.... Gateway.... It was not ONLY OP in PVP all expac, but even in pve!!! AND THEY DID NOTHING TO NERF IT! Why? Because, and I quote, "We do not want to nerf warlocks right now since it would negatively effect guilds who are doing progression in SoO currently". Like.... WTF....? WHY was this not fixed BEFORE 5.4?? I dont get it.
    That statement was absolutely unbelievable. Does ANYONE think that if warriors, DK's, rets, monks, etc were doing 20%+ more damage than every other class/spec that they would be allowed to be massively OP (I'm talking about PVE damage btw) for nearly a year? Only warlocks and mages are allowed that type of treatment, and there has never been a more transparent admittance of Blizzards lock/mage bias.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    That statement was absolutely unbelievable. Does ANYONE think that if warriors, DK's, rets, monks, etc were doing 20%+ more damage than every other class/spec that they would be allowed to be massively OP (I'm talking about PVE damage btw) for nearly a year? Only warlocks and mages are allowed that type of treatment, and there has never been a more transparent admittance of Blizzards lock/mage bias.
    Thats more on raid mechanics then rawr class numbers
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  11. #111
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Better than Ghostcrawler, but marginal. PvP is still a piece of shit and laughable.

  12. #112

  13. #113
    Honestly pvp has been pretty good since he took over. Many classes and specs were totally UNPLAYABLE, but in MoP most classes and specs have a possibility of reaching glad. I think hes dont a pretty good job. B for him

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Dottzx View Post
    Honestly pvp has been pretty good since he took over. Many classes and specs were totally UNPLAYABLE, but in MoP most classes and specs have a possibility of reaching glad. I think hes dont a pretty good job. B for him
    I assume you are talking about rbg and arena. Randoms are a f***ing disease right now, to put it extremely charitably. A smart ten-year old would have come up with a better system. Any one who is involved with the implementation of pvp in its current state should be fired.
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  15. #115
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dottzx View Post
    Honestly pvp has been pretty good since he took over. Many classes and specs were totally UNPLAYABLE, but in MoP most classes and specs have a possibility of reaching glad. I think hes dont a pretty good job. B for him
    Disagree. Fury Warriors require you to work three times as hard compared to Arms Warriors. And if you're a tank, well good luck on reaching Glad lol.

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  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Thallidomaniac View Post
    Disagree. Fury Warriors require you to work three times as hard compared to Arms Warriors. And if you're a tank, well good luck on reaching Glad lol.
    obviously tanks have no place in arena and if you cant understand that dont even bother posting.

  17. #117
    If s14 and s15 are reflections of he`s ability than he is kinda suck.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelyka View Post
    If s14 and s15 are reflections of he`s ability than he is kinda suck.
    Well holinka was the one that thought warriors needed the buffs that almost pushed them back to s12 rep lvls in s14.....

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