What made vanilla and TBC so memorable?

[Xires]

If that's what you're going to reduce it to then there's no difference between WoW and Diablo...

A bit OT but...aren't you dead? =p

[Deleted]

A bit OT but...aren't you dead? =p

Technically, I haven't been born yet.

[Celarent]

To really understand how WoW and Blizzard have settled in gaming culture and the market, Google "Chris Metzen battlecruiser" and watch the returned YouTube video. And that was as late as 2009! There was a time when this was new and exciting, and a little magical.

It won't be new or magical again, but WoW can still be exciting.

[Vash The Stampede]

There's a few things that made Vanilla and TBC magical for me.

#1 Exploration

Throughout Vanilla WoW you would see things that don't seem to have purpose. Like if there was some lore or future needs for it. Places like Hyjal, Grim Batol, and Uldum. You still saw this in TBC with places like Oshu'gun. After WOTLK it sorta fell apart. They missed out to do something like this with MoP.

#2 Talent Customization

The talent system in WoW felt like you could be creative in how you talented your character. But by WOTLK it felt like anytime you found a creative way of using a talent, Blizzard found a way to nerf it. For example Reckoning for Paladins back in Vanilla. But as time went by the talent system of WoW become very fixed that to the point it led to the current system which everyone hates. You just couldn't be creative with talents anymore.

#3 Sense of accomplishment

When you achieved something in Vanilla or TBC you really did something. Today epic gear gets handed out like gum from a gumball machine. I have no problem with catch up gear, but there needs to be a limit in how far you give gear to new players. Also it seems like blue gear literally has no value anymore, beyond disenchanting. Where back in Vanilla the blue dungeon armor set was pretty good, and was good enough to get you into Molten Core and beyond. Why even have a color system for armor when everything is purple anyway?

[Akraen]

I miss raids that are actually a part of Warcraft with characters and villains from Warcraft 1 to 3.
I miss twink brackets (still play some but design destroyed them)
I miss vanilla bgs and BC arenas (sl sl lock glad)
I miss spamming trade for groups
I miss elite world bosses in Azeroth (emerald dragons etc)
I miss the fact you actually had a responsibility to behave in groups because of server reputation
I miss the non existence of GS or ilvl

Oh hey we miss the exact same things!

[Hexian]

Progression.

Blizz in its attempt to please everyone completely destroyed progression by introducing LFR and separate regular and hard mode versions. I shouldn't have to kill a boss four times over just to get a feeling of progression. I should kill him once, he should be hard, and I should have to work to get to him.

[Akraen]

Progression.

Blizz in its attempt to please everyone completely destroyed progression by introducing LFR and separate regular and hard mode versions. I shouldn't have to kill a boss four times over just to get a feeling of progression. I should kill him once, he should be hard, and I should have to work to get to him.

It's tough. Since ToC I've been a very staunch anti-heroic voice and it's gotten me nowhere.

I think after almost 10 years anyone who has an opinion is at the least justified in their opinion, even if it doesn't change the course of behavior from designers. However, I do not see how multiple raiding difficulties has done anything positive for any demographic. LFR on the other hand, I'm okay with. LFR + Normal would make sense. Normal, obviously, tuned like in TBC (maybe better initial tuning lol).

[Deleted]

Yeah they just brought in flying, it had nothing to do with players saying they wanted it for 3 years, and the devs saying it wasn't possible because of how the world was made, there were blank spots in the maps that would be exploited...

I swear the memory of MMOChamp is so selective, or maybe some of you didn't read the forums back then?

No I didn't read the forums back then. What is your point?

Are you telling me that my personal experience of never hearing anyone in-game wishing for flying mounts is a total lie which I made up? Makes me wonder for what purpose you would do this, and I would like to take this opportunity to explain that my personal past experiences are not available to be rewritten at your whim.

I stand by my statement, in-game, for the time I played I had never heard anyone ask for flying mounts. That statement is not up for debate.

[Arctis]

Ultimately it comes down to about four things (and I'll use BC as an example, vanilla sucked):

1) Progression.
2) Leveling experience.
3) Customization.
4) Intrigue.

So to elaborate:
Progression- This is my biggest issue with the game right now. During BC, T4 was relevant for the entire expansion. It was the stepping stone to T5 once you were ready, and then T6 once you'd went through that. Now, the current tier is dead and pointless once the newest tier comes out due to catchup mechanics and LFR. I won't even get into the discussion of how shitty LFR is, that's well established. Progressing through the tiers during BC (and vanilla and WotlK) rewarded you with the upgrades to get to the next tier. Holy shit, you mean now I'm strong enough to do SSC? Fux yeah! Now your reward is...the same thing, just a little bit harder with new mechanics.

Leveling experience- This is a double-edged sword. I love heirlooms. I love not having to worry about upgrading to the next piece of gear, not having to compare stats. At the same time, that's also a huge drawback to leveling. That was part of the experience. And your character looked a hot mess for 98% of the time while leveling due to mismatching pieces. And that was okay. Then there's the bonus XP it adds..which leads to leveling being trivial. I get that there are 90 levels now (soon to be 100), and that they just -can't- be as long and drawn out as if there were 60..but the power gains relative to level seem to be far too great. Why should I, the player, handicap myself to provide more challenge? Also, 5-mans are dumbed down and shortened to the point of uselessness.
Example of this: I'm currently leveling a warrior. This is the first time I've gotten a warrior past level 5 (and I started playing in November 2006), and he's 36 now. I top the DPS meter every single time I do a run, and I have no idea what I'm doing. If I queue as a tank, I never lose aggro or have any issues, AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M DOING. 5-mans used to encourage you to learn your class and did a good job preparing for endgame, now they're pretty much just a quicker way to level without leaving the city. And that's heartbreaking, so much good design gone to waste.

Customization- Not physical, that has actually gotten better with being able to faction/race/hairstyle change. I'm talking talent trees. They weren't broken when they overhauled for Cata, and they weren't broken when they were removed for Mists. Sure, every class had a cookie cutter spec and most specs weren't really all that viable. That was part of the fun! Trying to prove the theorycrafting wrong. Doing a raid with a fire lock and doing more damage than a demonic sac/ruin lock was a great feeling. That is entirely gone, replaced with homogeneity. You can't veer off of the rails and explore, you get what you're fed.

Intrigue- This was straight up fucking murdered with flying. End of story.


tl;dr version- The biggest difference in this game is that it's not about exploration anymore. You don't make your way through the world. It's a tour. You're on a rail and you don't get to veer off. You feel like the content is boring? WHY THE FUCK HAVEN'T YOU DONE THE SAME CONTENT AGAIN ON A HARDER DIFFICULTY?

[Deleted]

The game was in its early stages, and everything was so new (at least for me). There were always a class you haven't try etc.