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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    Excuse me, but why are you still here if in a sense the game has already ended for you?
    Oh I have unsubbed a few months already. I am also very unhappy I already bought WoD on battlenet. Oh well... I'll see how that works out.

    But you know how it goes. You play a game for near 10 years and it sticks with you. Like it is a part of you somehow. I still seem to care about the game even though I don't play it. Not sure that makes any sense.

  2. #502
    Blademaster Moppe's Avatar
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    I have to say there are two things for me that made Vanilla and The Burning Crusade stand out... and that is nice memories and realm-community.

    What I miss today even though I can understand the convenience for grinding rep and what not, is that you had to get a group through talking to ppl in order to go dungeons. I played a healer and I often got placed on friendslists and I placed many more players that I liked to play with on my friendslist compare to today. Every time I logged on I got a whisper saying "hi want to heal shattered halls hc?". Nowadays you use dungeonfinder and you do not even have to talk to players, which is rather weird in a mmo. In vanilla there was even lists of players having rare recipes like the molten core ones who you could contact if you wanted something special. That is what I mean with realm-community.

    An important sidenote though... nowadays I do not have the time to play as much as I did back in Vanilla and TBC. Work and family occupies my time much more these days so I am happy that World of Warcraft moves towards a more efficient gameplay, now I mostly just raid 3 days per week on a hc level and even though I love the memories i had doing BRD 5 hours runs
    "Ahh... We are all heroes; you and Boo and I. Hamsters and rangers everywhere, rejoice! "

  3. #503
    Idk I really liked the raid model where raiding felt extremely rewarding (compared to today).
    No catch ups. No short cuts. Progression in its truest form. Once you showed your worth in T4 you had the gear to move into T5 and then T6 after.

    WotLK reduced that model to a waiting game. Oh you cannot kill teh current raid tier? Just wait till the next catch-up comes out and get easy epics to make it a joke.

    Cata afterwards even removed the waiting part. LFR is giving free full clears in the first few weeks for EVERYONE (since MoP it even rewards you with determination you when you die, very conveniant).

    Nobody is exited about anything anymore. Everyone has seen and cleared the new content themselves as soon as it comes out.

    Oh and today you can get everything done by yourself. In BC you were forced to interact with people (even for questing, the most solitary part of WoW). If you were a jerk in BC you made the game much harder for yourself so most people were respectful and enjoyed symbiotic relationships with the realm community.

    TL;DR:
    Raid content half life got reduced to ~5 weeks (for everyone).
    Nobody interacts with strangers anymore (because they don't have to).
    Last edited by gend; 2014-07-09 at 11:19 AM.

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    While any reading of Plutarch or Tacitus will show that politics has not really changed in millenia, basic math will show average player damage/mob damage at level (as well as targeted and aoe healing/mob damage) in basic level gear has changed dramatically over the life of wow.
    The point of the game is still the same and that's grinding things to no end untill a new expansion hits so you can do the whole thing again in a different environment with different looking gear that does the exact same thing as the tier before except the numbers are higher. Player damage in basic gear doesn't change the true nature of the game.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Wacomman View Post
    The point of the game is still the same and that's grinding things to no end untill a new expansion hits so you can do the whole thing again in a different environment with different looking gear that does the exact same thing as the tier before except the numbers are higher. Player damage in basic gear doesn't change the true nature of the game.
    well you can define the 'true nature' to exclude any difference I mention, but to me a game where I kill multiple things in a few buttons with no risk to myself vs a game I need to carefully premediate certain types of pulls, and possibly run away if i end up with 2 mobs on me or threat of more, and where i DIE sometimes outside in world, are qualitatively 2 different game experiences.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, John Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Agatha Christie, Steven Erikson & Ian Esslemont, Stephen R Donaldon, and recently Jack L Chalker.

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Wacomman View Post
    The point of the game is still the same and that's grinding things
    If that's what you're going to reduce it to then there's no difference between WoW and Diablo...

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by gowron View Post
    If that's what you're going to reduce it to then there's no difference between WoW and Diablo...
    A bit OT but...aren't you dead? =p

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Xires View Post
    A bit OT but...aren't you dead? =p
    Technically, I haven't been born yet.

  9. #509
    To really understand how WoW and Blizzard have settled in gaming culture and the market, Google "Chris Metzen battlecruiser" and watch the returned YouTube video. And that was as late as 2009! There was a time when this was new and exciting, and a little magical.

    It won't be new or magical again, but WoW can still be exciting.

  10. #510
    There's a few things that made Vanilla and TBC magical for me.

    #1 Exploration

    Throughout Vanilla WoW you would see things that don't seem to have purpose. Like if there was some lore or future needs for it. Places like Hyjal, Grim Batol, and Uldum. You still saw this in TBC with places like Oshu'gun. After WOTLK it sorta fell apart. They missed out to do something like this with MoP.

    #2 Talent Customization

    The talent system in WoW felt like you could be creative in how you talented your character. But by WOTLK it felt like anytime you found a creative way of using a talent, Blizzard found a way to nerf it. For example Reckoning for Paladins back in Vanilla. But as time went by the talent system of WoW become very fixed that to the point it led to the current system which everyone hates. You just couldn't be creative with talents anymore.

    #3 Sense of accomplishment

    When you achieved something in Vanilla or TBC you really did something. Today epic gear gets handed out like gum from a gumball machine. I have no problem with catch up gear, but there needs to be a limit in how far you give gear to new players. Also it seems like blue gear literally has no value anymore, beyond disenchanting. Where back in Vanilla the blue dungeon armor set was pretty good, and was good enough to get you into Molten Core and beyond. Why even have a color system for armor when everything is purple anyway?

  11. #511
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gratlim View Post
    I miss raids that are actually a part of Warcraft with characters and villains from Warcraft 1 to 3.
    I miss twink brackets (still play some but design destroyed them)
    I miss vanilla bgs and BC arenas (sl sl lock glad)
    I miss spamming trade for groups
    I miss elite world bosses in Azeroth (emerald dragons etc)
    I miss the fact you actually had a responsibility to behave in groups because of server reputation
    I miss the non existence of GS or ilvl
    Oh hey we miss the exact same things!

  12. #512
    Progression.

    Blizz in its attempt to please everyone completely destroyed progression by introducing LFR and separate regular and hard mode versions. I shouldn't have to kill a boss four times over just to get a feeling of progression. I should kill him once, he should be hard, and I should have to work to get to him.

  13. #513
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexian View Post
    Progression.

    Blizz in its attempt to please everyone completely destroyed progression by introducing LFR and separate regular and hard mode versions. I shouldn't have to kill a boss four times over just to get a feeling of progression. I should kill him once, he should be hard, and I should have to work to get to him.
    It's tough. Since ToC I've been a very staunch anti-heroic voice and it's gotten me nowhere.

    I think after almost 10 years anyone who has an opinion is at the least justified in their opinion, even if it doesn't change the course of behavior from designers. However, I do not see how multiple raiding difficulties has done anything positive for any demographic. LFR on the other hand, I'm okay with. LFR + Normal would make sense. Normal, obviously, tuned like in TBC (maybe better initial tuning lol).

  14. #514
    Grunt Laumann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by finskee View Post
    Yeah they just brought in flying, it had nothing to do with players saying they wanted it for 3 years, and the devs saying it wasn't possible because of how the world was made, there were blank spots in the maps that would be exploited...

    I swear the memory of MMOChamp is so selective, or maybe some of you didn't read the forums back then?
    No I didn't read the forums back then. What is your point?

    Are you telling me that my personal experience of never hearing anyone in-game wishing for flying mounts is a total lie which I made up? Makes me wonder for what purpose you would do this, and I would like to take this opportunity to explain that my personal past experiences are not available to be rewritten at your whim.

    I stand by my statement, in-game, for the time I played I had never heard anyone ask for flying mounts. That statement is not up for debate.

  15. #515
    Ultimately it comes down to about four things (and I'll use BC as an example, vanilla sucked):

    1) Progression.
    2) Leveling experience.
    3) Customization.
    4) Intrigue.

    So to elaborate:
    Progression- This is my biggest issue with the game right now. During BC, T4 was relevant for the entire expansion. It was the stepping stone to T5 once you were ready, and then T6 once you'd went through that. Now, the current tier is dead and pointless once the newest tier comes out due to catchup mechanics and LFR. I won't even get into the discussion of how shitty LFR is, that's well established. Progressing through the tiers during BC (and vanilla and WotlK) rewarded you with the upgrades to get to the next tier. Holy shit, you mean now I'm strong enough to do SSC? Fux yeah! Now your reward is...the same thing, just a little bit harder with new mechanics.

    Leveling experience- This is a double-edged sword. I love heirlooms. I love not having to worry about upgrading to the next piece of gear, not having to compare stats. At the same time, that's also a huge drawback to leveling. That was part of the experience. And your character looked a hot mess for 98% of the time while leveling due to mismatching pieces. And that was okay. Then there's the bonus XP it adds..which leads to leveling being trivial. I get that there are 90 levels now (soon to be 100), and that they just -can't- be as long and drawn out as if there were 60..but the power gains relative to level seem to be far too great. Why should I, the player, handicap myself to provide more challenge? Also, 5-mans are dumbed down and shortened to the point of uselessness.
    Example of this: I'm currently leveling a warrior. This is the first time I've gotten a warrior past level 5 (and I started playing in November 2006), and he's 36 now. I top the DPS meter every single time I do a run, and I have no idea what I'm doing. If I queue as a tank, I never lose aggro or have any issues, AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M DOING. 5-mans used to encourage you to learn your class and did a good job preparing for endgame, now they're pretty much just a quicker way to level without leaving the city. And that's heartbreaking, so much good design gone to waste.

    Customization- Not physical, that has actually gotten better with being able to faction/race/hairstyle change. I'm talking talent trees. They weren't broken when they overhauled for Cata, and they weren't broken when they were removed for Mists. Sure, every class had a cookie cutter spec and most specs weren't really all that viable. That was part of the fun! Trying to prove the theorycrafting wrong. Doing a raid with a fire lock and doing more damage than a demonic sac/ruin lock was a great feeling. That is entirely gone, replaced with homogeneity. You can't veer off of the rails and explore, you get what you're fed.

    Intrigue- This was straight up fucking murdered with flying. End of story.


    tl;dr version- The biggest difference in this game is that it's not about exploration anymore. You don't make your way through the world. It's a tour. You're on a rail and you don't get to veer off. You feel like the content is boring? WHY THE FUCK HAVEN'T YOU DONE THE SAME CONTENT AGAIN ON A HARDER DIFFICULTY?

  16. #516
    The game was in its early stages, and everything was so new (at least for me). There were always a class you haven't try etc.

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