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  1. #861
    Scarab Lord Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssateneth View Post
    The 6.2 gladiator stat weights will be as follows

    strength > AP = BA > ~13-13.5% raid buffed haste (about 700-800 rating) > crit > mastery > multistrike > versatility >>> haste past the "cap". It messes with revenge in a negative way.

    I had a sim but I will re-do one soon in case people want to see a big ol report, including the haste vs crit plateau around 700-800 rating (its there due to getting an extra attack in with bloodbath)

    I am running a trinket comparison for gladiators right now using mythic t17 gear. Trinkets may not be final but at least you can get an idea of how they stack up with each other along with T17 trinkets.
    Doesn't look like most trinkets are modeled fully. Gotta wait for the team to fix it.

    For now, though, here is how the mastery change stacks up in T17M gear vs fury warriors.


    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/..._glad_ptr.html


    I adjusted the gear to favor mastery more than multistrike, and a couple APL tweaks and race change. Gladiator will absolutely be competitive and viable.

    For what it's worth, here is the current state (6.1.2) of fury vs gladiator. The adjusted profile is about the same. Same APL changes, race is worgen, and slightly altered gear.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...y_vs_glad.html
    Not to disagree with your information, but keep in mind that Fury will start to take the lead with better class trinket and Leg ring, depending on what (if anything) changes before then.

    End result is the same though, Glad moves up the ranks in 6.2.

  2. #862
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    Not to disagree with your information, but keep in mind that Fury will start to take the lead with better class trinket and Leg ring, depending on what (if anything) changes before then.
    I'm not sure that will make that much of a difference when you put it in perspective.

    The ring gives us both the same buff and we have both lost the same buff from the old ring, the only real difference is that the stats are no longer as good as they were, but it isn't really a monumental difference as although we are losing BA and gaining crit we are also losing vers and gaining multi. Yes the fixed stats are not as good as the ones on the tanking ring, but it's not monumental.

    As far as the trinket goes are you sure theirs is better? It gives them +15% haste after a few seconds of stacking on a patchwerk fight, but not many fights this expansion are patchwerk and on something like Maidens or Furnace the buff would drop off a lot. By comparison ours simply makes SC increase SS/Rev/HS damage by an extra 20%. According to my sims I have 61% uptime on SC and those abilities do 53.6% of my damage on single target. So (I'm bad at math so this may be crap) that's a 20% buff to 53.6% of the damage we deal for 61% of the fight.

    Granted SC uptime will suffer when we lose T17 bonus, but it's still quite a buff. And don't forget that Revenge and HS both cleave so on twin fights it will be nice too.

    *** EDIT ***

    I suppose a real simple way to factor it is that w/o T17 SC should have about a 50% uptime, so +20% for 50% of the fight is like +10% over the course of the fight. If it effects just over 50% of our damage then it's like +5% to our damage over the course of a fight.

    so an effective +5% damage vs a gimmicky +15% bonus to one of Furys worst stats, personally I'd say we got the best deal /shrug.
    Last edited by caervek; 2015-04-22 at 12:21 PM.

  3. #863
    Scarab Lord Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    I'm not sure that will make that much of a difference when you put it in perspective.

    The ring gives us both the same buff and we have both lost the same buff from the old ring, the only real difference is that the stats are no longer as good as they were, but it isn't really a monumental difference as although we are losing BA and gaining crit we are also losing vers and gaining multi. Yes the fixed stats are not as good as the ones on the tanking ring, but it's not monumental.

    As far as the trinket goes are you sure theirs is better? It gives them +15% haste after a few seconds of stacking on a patchwerk fight, but not many fights this expansion are patchwerk and on something like Maidens or Furnace the buff would drop off a lot. By comparison ours simply makes SC increase SS/Rev/HS damage by an extra 20%. According to my sims I have 61% uptime on SC and those abilities do 53.6% of my damage on single target. So (I'm bad at math so this may be crap) that's a 20% buff to 53.6% of the damage we deal for 61% of the fight.

    Granted SC uptime will suffer when we lose T17 bonus, but it's still quite a buff. And don't forget that Revenge and HS both cleave so on twin fights it will be nice too.

    *** EDIT ***

    I suppose a real simple way to factor it is that w/o T17 SC should have about a 50% uptime, so +20% for 50% of the fight is like +10% over the course of the fight. If it effects just over 50% of our damage then it's like +5% to our damage over the course of a fight.

    so an effective +5% damage vs a gimmicky +15% bonus to one of Furys worst stats, personally I'd say we got the best deal /shrug.
    You're right, the rings stats aren't a large contribution but they still do make a difference. Haste is generally a bad stat for Fury only because it has specific marks in which it does anything noticeably useful, but when you add that much it really is pretty nice and I wouldn't call it gimmicky by any stretch. Target switching really isn't as bad as people imagine either. It just requires the buff to stack up again which doesn't take that long. Most importantly though, just don't swap targets, there really aren't a lot of times when you absolutely have to. It may be slightly detrimental to the raid strategy, but in no way crippling, and your personal gain should make up for it.

    Gladiator is definitely in a better spot, but still projecting Fury to beat it.

  4. #864
    The silence by the devs on no set bonuses for Gladiator and no dps proc on the BA ring is disheartening. I hope we aren't shoved aside and forgotten in 6.2.

  5. #865
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumqatninja View Post
    The silence by the devs on no set bonuses for Gladiator and no dps proc on the BA ring is disheartening. I hope we aren't shoved aside and forgotten in 6.2.
    I could be wrong here, but IIRC you can only see Glad bonuses on tier if specced Glad, hence why T17 on wowhead just shows Arms/Fury/Prot. The reason the devs haven't mentioned Glad T18 is because it's just been datamined not announced, /shrug.

  6. #866
    Scarab Lord Archimtiros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    I could be wrong here, but IIRC you can only see Glad bonuses on tier if specced Glad, hence why T17 on wowhead just shows Arms/Fury/Prot. The reason the devs haven't mentioned Glad T18 is because it's just been datamined not announced, /shrug.
    There are set bonuses for Glad, they are underwhelming. One of them reduces the rage cost of Heroic Strike (wheeeee.... but don't worry we'll still use US) during Shield Charge, and the other I forget. The ring very likely wont change unless all the rings change (I hope, I pray).
    Last edited by Archimtiros; 2015-04-23 at 04:29 PM.

  7. #867
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    There are set bonuses for Glad, they are underwhelming. One of them reduces the rage cost of Heroic Strike (wheeeee.... but don't worry we'll still use US) during Shield Charge, and the other I forget. The ring very likely wont change unless all the rings change (I hope, I pray).
    where did you see this? got a screenshot?

  8. #868
    Hey, I was wondering about using two on-use trinkets for Gladiator.
    It's obviously a big nono for fury or arms due to lining up cds, but gladiator doesnt really have that, we only have or 1min cd bloodbath/bladestorm so my initial assume is that two 2-min trinkets aren't 'that' bad.
    I'm currently using hc/wf Vial and mythic forge and I'm looking to get a mythic tablet (already got a heroic one).
    Now I dont think hc tablet beats the pure str of mythic forge, but the procc might pull further ahead with the mythic version.
    I dont really know how to go about simming that either. There's also the question of lining them up with bloodbath or just use them when 2 SC are available and maybe ring proccs. I could also use them up to 8 seconds before the 2nd bloodbath, assuming ring proccs.
    What are your thoughts on that?

    Btw this is assuming that I dont get hc/mythic blast door cause that pulls far ahead, especially setting up for next tier.
    Forgemasters just isnt doing it for me, aside from the 444 Str.

    Speaking of next tier mythic tablet/blast door combination is probably gonna pull past vial right?
    The only thing Im gonna miss is averaging 35-40% multistrike with both multistrike trinkets, that sure is nice.

  9. #869
    Lets see. You havent linked your character so I can't really do anything with -your- character. I'll just try it with mine. I'll post results in a bit. I do know that door + vial is bis (tablet and vial are extremely close, but tablet will pull ahead in 6.2).

    Give me a few minutes.

    I guess this will give you your answer

    Last edited by Ssateneth; 2015-04-29 at 08:11 PM.

  10. #870
    Having just completed the Legendary quest for the 715 ring, I had a look on yon Internet. I've read that the BA ring doesn't proc unless the wearer's under 50% health, thus making the standard DPS ring better, even for Gladiators.

    Is this accurate, or is BA still the way to go?

  11. #871
    Quote Originally Posted by Karadros View Post
    Having just completed the Legendary quest for the 715 ring, I had a look on yon Internet. I've read that the BA ring doesn't proc unless the wearer's under 50% health, thus making the standard DPS ring better, even for Gladiators.

    Is this accurate, or is BA still the way to go?
    this is wrong. 715 ring with bonus armor procs just as much as the regular strength dps one, regardless of user's HP level.

    use the BA one.

    if you bothered the DPS the dps dummy with 715 BA ring you'd see it proccing anyways.

  12. #872
    Quote Originally Posted by Ssateneth View Post
    if you bothered the DPS the dps dummy with 715 BA ring you'd see it proccing anyways.
    I'd only just received it and continued on to get Garona, figured people more in the know would be able to answer the question better.

    But thanks all the same.

  13. #873
    You're thinking of the Bonus Armor weapon enchant, which only procs if you're at or below 50% HP.

  14. #874
    Quote Originally Posted by Ssateneth View Post
    Lets see. You havent linked your character so I can't really do anything with -your- character. I'll just try it with mine. I'll post results in a bit. I do know that door + vial is bis (tablet and vial are extremely close, but tablet will pull ahead in 6.2).

    Give me a few minutes.

    I guess this will give you your answer

    Thanks for that.
    That's my character: http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/characte.../Lusiva/simple

    I kinda guessed the difference for single target (if thats what you simmed) would be very marginal. That's just the bigger numbers on the mythic trinkets pulling ahead.
    I think I will just try it out for the next raid and compare it with my last logs.

  15. #875
    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorsarri View Post
    You're thinking of the Bonus Armor weapon enchant, which only procs if you're at or below 50% HP.
    Aha, that sounds like where my confusion and ignorance stems from. Muchos gracias.

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