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  1. #1281
    You guys have to remember we went from Triage to the MoP style AoE healing during cataclysm. I would put the blame on Dragonsoul and not on the HR change itself. Sure it allowed us to use it more often but unless my memory is failing me we started receiving a lot more AOE dmg. From doing Firelands where you had to cast so many holy lights to stacking up so often in DS that HR was just way more efficient.

  2. #1282
    Field Marshal Juicyjonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xiloclipse View Post
    or C take their ability to kill a boss or clear a dungeon as a sign of viability in high level progression.
    These are the worst kinds of players who just assume that they're doing amazing because they're in a group/raid that completed some event/boss kill.

    "We didn't wipe! and the boss died so drop it! NO BIG DEAL!"
    "Numbers don't matter!! As long as the boss dies!"
    "Improving myself to be a better healer... but why when the other 24 players can carry me? HEHEHEHEHHEHEE"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    I don't care which finisher they buff so long as Radiance is relegated to only emergency AoE damage in favor of Holy Light and Flash. I simply prefer the PVE Holy Pally to perform more like the PVP version. If that's the only issue you guys are upset about I'm more than content for them to make a synergy between the two finishers so spamming one only isn't optimal.
    Emergency healing???

    PVE Holy Paladin to be like the PVP Holy paladin???

    Did you stop to read what you wrote? Having paladins heal like a pvp holy paladin would be awesome if raids consisted of 3-5 people... but they don't. This makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightfalls View Post
    And yes, if you are healing a raid of 20 players, I'm sorry, but you should expect to use your AoE. Otherwise you don't belong in a raid, and should stick to PvP. This is coming from someone that plays and enjoys playing both.

    Other healers don't expect their classes to do the same things in PvP and PvE, and with good reason.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    HR should be reserved for OH SHIT moments. It shouldn't be the go to spell in all situations. Spamming it constantly is even more mindless than Holy Light spam ever was even in Wrath because at least we had to manage some damn cooldowns to maintain mana. The playstyle has been so boring since they took HR off of a CD. If they buff HR it should go back on the old cooldown so spells like Holy Light and Flash aren't simply tossed aside. Currently I've been messing around with Holy in the beta and I've found even the 5-man dungeons to be more exciting and fun than any raid I attempted after Dragon Soul was released on a Holy Paladin. Even though my experience with raiding since Dragon Soul on a Holy Paladin has been limited, but I know for damn sure every single log I read HL and FoL are hardly if ever used. Buff LoD for AoE heals, give it a synergy with EF, buff HR to be worth the cast but bring back that damn CD or buff the cost even more so you would never spam it for anything other than a super emergency.

    Hell, I'd take the 4.0 Holy Paladin over the spam the HR Pally. With the death of 10-man progression healers no longer have to be jacks of all trades. A return to a semi-niche that Holy Paladins occupied in Cata prior to the HR spamfest would make players like myself quite happy again.

    I can't be the only one who feels that this is more compelling


    Than this style
    Yeah it looks like those paladins are doing great on the meter... Fantastic example.
    14/14HM Holy Paladin

  3. #1283
    Brewmaster Perkunas's Avatar
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    I mention PVP because it actually feels like a Holy Paladin. It felt like the class that existed until 4.3. This HR spamming abomination that you seem to like is not what the class was ever supposed to be and I'm glad that Blizzard looks to be killing it with fire on beta. Also, if we're going to make it about the meter Holy Paladins dominated meters in Wrath where they only ever spammed Holy Light. Let's go back to that then...
    Don't blame the casuals for making Warcraft worse. It's the unskilled masses who refuse to improve themselves and Blizzard who has decided to bribe these folks with an endless shower of purples that should draw the ire of both casual and hardcore alike. It was never about "seeing the content" for these people it's always been about the gear and their sense of entitlement.

  4. #1284
    I tried some 3v3 on beta, with hopes on each new build to have some Holy changes (Dispel protection for our big CD? Bigger healing output because we are full cast now?), and they don't happen.
    I'm still having hope for the "number tuning", because, we are not, not, absolutly not rewarded for casting and fake casting in the actual build compared to others.

    For PvP, it's like being the actual Rsham, a real good target to train, but without the huge and smart heal rsham have in live, without anything attractive...
    Hpal are in a terrible state in live server (Because we bring anything better and unique compared to others - we are just a bad replacement in 98% of actual teams), it's gonna get worse with WoD.

    Having to use Avenging Wrath and Trinket at the beginning against any competent team because you don't have enough healing even on full cast is scary.

    For the first time after 10 years of paladin, i'm thinking of playing serioulsy another class. (Rdruid, they always seems wanted and powerful since TBC in arenas...)

    Edit : Change the talent Beacon of Insight, make it baseline, benefit from glyph of BoL, increase direct healing by 50%, don't jump, and can't be use in the same time as Beacon of Light/Faith - I would love to have an option to disable this "crap" spell which are the main reason our direct healing spell are completly low in PvP. The number are hypothetical, but the idea is here.
    Beacon of Light is perhaps a cool spell, but in PvP, every single of our casted heal (Flash of Light / Divine Light) must be on the Beacon, to have 1 HP.

    Being the only healer which have to cast? Why not. Give me the biggest and the most terrifying healing output of all then. (And not being outheal by 2 rejuv and a lifebloom ._.)
    Last edited by Jimjim; Yesterday at 11:03 PM.

  5. #1285
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    I mention PVP because it actually feels like a Holy Paladin. It felt like the class that existed until 4.3. This HR spamming abomination that you seem to like is not what the class was ever supposed to be and I'm glad that Blizzard looks to be killing it with fire on beta. Also, if we're going to make it about the meter Holy Paladins dominated meters in Wrath where they only ever spammed Holy Light. Let's go back to that then...
    We get it Holy Radiance is an abomination that killed your whole family! Seriously your HR hate you have spewed the last few pages is getting beyond ridiculous. I hated DS HR spam as well but damn calm down.

    DS HR spam is very different from MoP "HR spam". In DS HR was flat out spammed because it healed for a ton. In MoP, HR is filler between HS(and judgment in the case of Selfless Healer) to get holy power. So now in WoD we go from HS-HR-HR-EF to HS-HL-HL-EF, that isn't more engaging at all(and not that much different really). HR isn't worth using in WoD because it is terrible. It needs to be buffed so that it is good for AoE situations so we actually have a choice and get rewarded for using it effectively. PVE isn't PVP so don't expect it to be.

    Just because we want HR to be effective does not mean we want to spam it and completely ignore HL and FoL. We want a balance.
    Last edited by Freia; Yesterday at 11:46 PM.
    14/14H Resto Shaman and Holy Paladin

  6. #1286
    Brewmaster Perkunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    We get it Holy Radiance is an abomination that killed your whole family! Seriously your HR hate you have spewed the last few pages is getting beyond ridiculous. I hated DS HR spam as well but damn calm down.

    DS HR spam is very different from MoP "HR spam". In DS HR was flat out spammed because it healed for a ton. In MoP, HR is filler between HS(and judgment in the case of Selfless Healer) to get holy power. So now in WoD we go from HS-HR-HR-EF to HS-HL-HL-EF, that isn't more engaging at all(and not that much different really). HR isn't worth using in WoD because it is terrible. It needs to be buffed so that it is good for AoE situations so we actually have a choice and get rewarded for using it effectively. PVE isn't PVP so don't expect it to be.

    Just because we want HR to be effective does not mean we want to spam it and completely ignore HL and FoL. We want a balance.
    It killed my father and now it will prepare to die. Anyway, I'm advocating for a healing style that's more akin to pre-4.3.
    Don't blame the casuals for making Warcraft worse. It's the unskilled masses who refuse to improve themselves and Blizzard who has decided to bribe these folks with an endless shower of purples that should draw the ire of both casual and hardcore alike. It was never about "seeing the content" for these people it's always been about the gear and their sense of entitlement.

  7. #1287
    I was a big fan of the old holy radiance pré 4.3, large radius, good healing while moving, speed boost while activated, (30 seconds cooldown? can't remember exactly)

    It was removed because if i remember well ghostcrawler stated that paladins were the only healing class that didn't have on demand aoe and didn't matched with others healing classes toolkit

    Considering this and the will of blizzard to help input lag by reducing the whole lot of little fast healing ticks everywhere with more compact and less frequent heals, we probably won't see the original one coming back even if i'd love to see that.

    I remember the first time i saw the then brand new holy radiance on a paragon video (ptr): "OMG i wan't that"

    youtube.com/watch?v=lo5uIHdatfw

    In draenor (at least at the start) we simply won't be able to use holy radiance frequently anyway, not much differences beetween a spell with 30 seconds cooldown + good healing, and a spell that is so costly and heals so little that we can't afford to use it.

    Maybe if they could implement haste sinergy on old holy radiance to reduce cooldown like they did with holy shock, along with instant génération of 3 holy power when activated...

    by the way selfless healer was buffed in the last build: 35% healing bonus (up from 20 %) per stack... But can't tell for sure if this is for holy or protection paladins
    Last edited by axelsixtree; Today at 01:32 AM.

  8. #1288
    Quote Originally Posted by axelsixtree View Post
    by the way selfless healer was buffed in the last build: 35% healing bonus (up from 20 %) per stack... But can't tell for sure if this is for holy or protection paladins
    Lipstick on a pig, etc. Even at 35% per stack, it's a waste of time to cast as long as no holy power is generated in the process.

  9. #1289
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Mutli is basically just crit, but we don't have IoL from it, and Vesatility is balanced around all 3 aspects, so for specs like Holy who don't need the damage, and don't really need the toughness, its pretty crappy.
    reducing personal damage taking should always be good. What about the increase absorption part?

  10. #1290
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonic View Post
    Issues on Glyph of Illumination must be sorted out asap, I can use it on my copied character but there is no such glyph while playing on pvp server.
    Glyph of Illumination has been removed, hence why it is no longer available on premades.

  11. #1291
    Quote Originally Posted by paladative View Post
    reducing personal damage taking should always be good. What about the increase absorption part?
    The issue with versatility is its high cost for 1% vs other stats. You need 130 versatility for 1% more healing but you need only 110 crit (a bit less with holy crit bonus), 100 haste, etc. for 1% in these stats.

    About the absorption, Illuminated Healing scale off the initial healed amount, which is obviously improved by versatility.

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