[Retribution] WoD Alpha/Beta Info & Discussion

[Ryuji]

I'd be happy if we'd get three extra Judgements and each of them would grant different buff, while sharing cooldown.

So, Wrath's Judgements?

Judgement of Light

"Unleashes the energy of a Seal spell to judge an enemy for 20 seconds, granting attacks made against the judged enemy a chance of healing the attacker for 2% of their maximum health. Refer to individual Seals for additional Judgement effect. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time."

Judgement of Wisdom

"Unleashes the energy of a Seal spell to judge an enemy, giving each attack a chance to restore 2% of the attacker's base mana. Refer to individual Seals for additional Judgement effect. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time."

Judgement of Justice

"Unleashes the energy of a Seal spell to judge an enemy for 20 sec, preventing them from fleeing and limiting their movement speed. Refer to individual Seals for additional Judgement effect. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time."

...Kinda miss them.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Make the original Judgement hit much harder but use those old affects but it hits less a bit less.

[Xenocidic]

wwwwarcraftlogs.com/reports/vhW824xKQNzTJGDf/

All three of the second wing of LFR. Super charged Execution Sentence in magic vulnerability phase is awesome.

[Deleted]

I was just messing about with ret earlier today. I had DP and Final Verdict selected.

Because both Empowered DS and Final Verdict up the damage on DS is it worth trying to weave your Empowered DS procs between your FV on single target?

For example:

At 5 hp I use FV and its procs EmpDS, I then build up to 5 hp and use DS as it is both EmpDS and FV buffed (stays at 5hp cause EmpDS). It then procs EmpDS again.

Would I?:

1 - Use FV at the risk of procing the EmpDS again, therefor wasting the first proc, to make sure the when I do use EmpDS it is paired with the FV buff
or
2 - Use EmpDS without the FV buff as the damage gain from FV buff doesnt outweigh the risk of wasting the free DS if FV procs EmpDS again.

There are other situations where this would occur especially with Divine Purpose chosen, but the question im asking would still be the same

[Aeluron Lightsong]

DP would seem to be to fill empty phases(Or non fluid phases). Which kinda sucks IMO.

[Haaz]

Well its hard to say for now, have they even balanced aoe, as far as I know.. no.. I wouldnt comment on it yet, wtb beta build, this thread is allready full enough of assumptions and thoughts than a discussion of actual things, should be renamed "How ret could be"

[Lumineus]

It was better when FV was strong and you just used DP as soon as it procced. Chaining DP is fun, sitting on procs to fill empty globals, less so.

As for DS, it follows more or less the same rule. If you have an empty global (which you probably won't since if you have EmpDS with no FV buff, you already used FVEmpDS), then cast it, otherwise wait until you have the FV buff to unleash it. Although if you have buffs (wings, Seraphim* in the case that you didn't take FV) you might want to just use it and delay your builders, other than Hammer of Wrath.

*if you do have Seraphim, though, then you should pretty much always use it before casting another TV

[Deleted]

It was better when FV was strong and you just used DP as soon as it procced. Chaining DP is fun, sitting on procs to fill empty globals, less so.

As for DS, it follows more or less the same rule. If you have an empty global (which you probably won't since if you have EmpDS with no FV buff, you already used FVEmpDS), then cast it, otherwise wait until you have the FV buff to unleash it. Although if you have buffs (wings, Seraphim in the case that you didn't take FV) you might want to just use it and delay your builders, other than Hammer of Wrath.

So if im able to use EmpDS with FV buff as long as im not sitting there waiting for builders in order to FV?

I've no problem sitting on procs to fill globals, you do it somewhat in live atm with the 4p, you sit on your DS proc until all your builders are on CD or you reach 5hp to make sure you get that extra 1 second for your builders to come off CD

Every little helps!

Edit: Also would that apply if I had both DP and EmpDS procs with a FV buff already running? If I EmpDS I risk throwing away the free FV if DP procs and if I spam FV to remove my DP procs I risk procing EmpDS again and wasting that instead. I guess it all comes down to which does more damage: FV or FV-buffed EmpDS?

[anaxie]

That is the question is it not? Why can't Emp seals seriously just be renamed Empowered Judgement and grant us 3-4 judgements replacing the default. OH NOBUTTON BLOAT. Yet it would be infinitely more user friendly, viable, appealing, and more skillful and true for what "twisting" would actually mean with negetively affecting gameplay.

Just the thought of what it could/ should be pisses me the fuck off.

[Lyese]

Just the thought of what it could/ should be pisses me the fuck off.

Where's your ava, Anaxie darling?

I wasn't a huge fan of the Wrath style Judgements, but I agree it would be a more streamlined solution than what we have atm.

[anaxie]

Super mod deleted it for my "confusing" Banned tag across it like how is it confusing. Banned avatars look like battleshout and have a dull color....

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Where's your ava, Anaxie darling?

I wasn't a huge fan of the Wrath style Judgements, but I agree it would be a more streamlined solution than what we have atm.

Too genius to work. Too genius. STAHP!

[Lyese]

Super mod deleted it for my "confusing" Banned tag across it like how is it confusing. Banned avatars look like battleshout and have a dull color....

Really? I'm sorry to hear that. I mean, just about anyone can recognize a banned account when they see it, so I wouldn't understand where they're coming from.

Too genius to work. Too genius. STAHP!

It sometimes seems we can never have nice things, huh? The ones we do...go to Monks. :P

[Deleted]

I wish i made Warrior instead of Retribution back then when i buy wow.. *sigh*

[MBDTF]

That is the question is it not? Why can't Emp seals seriously just be renamed Empowered Judgement and grant us 3-4 judgements replacing the default. OH NOBUTTON BLOAT. Yet it would be infinitely more user friendly, viable, appealing, and more skillful and true for what "twisting" would actually mean with negetively affecting gameplay.

Just the thought of what it could/ should be pisses me the fuck off.

To be honest the implementing of emp seals already causes more button bloat than they ever though, rather than seals being a passive that is swapped under specific circumstances but now they become part of core single target and aoe rotations. It's kind of dumb how they implemented it's use.

[Deleted]

I wish i made Warrior instead of Retribution back then when i buy wow.. *sigh*

I wish they made Retribution like Warriors instead of rerolling. Many abilities, complex playstyle, but always kinda working in any situation and slightly OP in some cases.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Scrap seals-> add judgements that buff you for X seconds? One for Censure, one that gives seal of heal shit and so on. Then they could make Emp Judgement give additional buffs or increased effects.

[Reghame]

hi all! its been a while but im back.

As for this empowered seals talk, and seals themselves. I think it might be too late for too many drastic changes as trying to test and balance them now would be quite hard. What empowered seals needs at the moment is a big buff to the righteousness component and also possibly changing it's function to be a lot more AOE focused ( lets be honest here, haste is hardly good for any type of AOE they have us do in raids) but one of the core issues empowered seals still has is those wasted GCDs.

The first fix required before anything hits empowered seals it to somehow make those GCd's swapping actually provide something. Be it direct damage, holy power, an instant buff, anything. But as it stands, that GCD going from seal to seal is 100% worthless, which i find very disgusting and why i dislike the talent as a whole.
Another fix that should follow is a buff to the righteousness buff so it is actually very useful on it's own and not just a slight boost in damage, but also to where it is very important to keep up for AOE at all times.

I was thinking on what they could do to the buffs themselves and i thought about changing truth's buff to haste, then changing righteousness to mastery. Of course, such changes would mean major number changes as well, but this would fit more thematically with what seals are intended to do (truth for single, rightousness for AOE use this talent and get a bit of both and a boost too!)


Either that or seal of faith comes back in, i still think the possible utility from that talent could be very potent and could force two different play styles out of one spec if done somewhat right. But thats just my opinion as is all of the above.

[tvax]

Can someone tell me if final veridict is doing okay?

[Tangra]

Emp Seals would be MUCH more manageable if they'd just leave the buffs up for 1min each. Sure, there'd be a ramp-up time (but you'd prioritise, and it wouldn't be that bad after a SotR buff) and you'd only lose a couple of GCDs over the course of a minute, instead of, what... 8?

OR

Just limit the buff to two empowered seals at once. So the paladin only needs to balance two... with the oldest one being replaced. I'd settle for that. It would be a bit inquisitiony... but spending SO MANY globals on seals is horrible.

OR

Just take seals off the GCD. Quick and easy fix into macroland, but better than it is now.

I like the idea of the buffs lasting much longer, but there being a limit of 2 or 3. Only 2 buffs will be a bit boring for PvE since everyone will always pick the two that buff damage, 3 would add actual choice.