[Retribution] WoD Alpha/Beta Info & Discussion

[Maegor]

I feel the combo of Seraph and Readiness is still being overblown. Break it down mechanically and it was awful. Seraph was never going to reduce its own CD therefore it was never going to sync with any of our cds. So you would always end up having to delay Seraph by at least half of its cd before using it to make sure it lined with AW, and that is fucking horrible mechanics. Seraph is in a much, much better place mechanically now with versa instead of readiness. Much easier to fix it now as an ability.

[Tangra]

I feel the combo of Seraph and Readiness is still being overblown. Break it down mechanically and it was awful. Seraph was never going to reduce its own CD therefore it was never going to sync with any of our cds. So you would always end up having to delay Seraph by at least half of its cd before using it to make sure it lined with AW, and that is fucking horrible mechanics. Seraph is in a much, much better place mechanically now with versa instead of readiness. Much easier to fix it now as an ability.

Wouldn't 30% Readiness from gear have been pretty negligible also? The only way it could have been anything special is if Seraph had been 30% flat not for gear.

[nightfalls]

Bolded part is why I consider DKs and Warriors "pure" specs.

Generally the PvP definition of a "pure" is a class without a healer spec, and some use the word to mean that, basically they are less subject to a hybrid tax.

- - - Updated - - -

No Bear, you are not the only one as I pointed out in my post on page one. No way in hell stays Seraphim in its current incarnation the way it is until release. Either it is scrapped completely and something totally new is introduced (what I personally hope for!) or they change at least the part of consuming the 5 Holy Power but maybe let it only be usable when you have 5 Holy Power accumulated or just let it be 30 second cd that costs you one gcd to use and thats it. I did infact see some merit to Seraphim when there was still readiness around but since that was scrapped Seraphim totally died with it for me.

I've said this before and will say it again, I dislike the entire idea of ANY ability costing more than 3 Holy Power or requiring more than 3 Holy Power. What the fuck is the point of Boundless Conviction then?

We've just gone back to the Cataclysm system.

[Deleted]

Agreed, but if pures do 5% more damage than "hybrids" and hybrids get druid roars, offheals or other tricks to compliment the raid that "pures" don't have access to that's completely fine imo.

Bolded part is why I consider DKs and Warriors "pure" specs.

If I find that retribution is so uncompetitive that I don't justify my raid spot, having protection or holy in a good place doesn't save me. I'm in the guild as dps, they will have enough healers and tanks already.

[Morally Grey Storm]

It took them 7 years to realise that a melee spec virtually, literally and actually without ANY MEANS TO CLOSE THE GAP OR INTERRUPT casts AT ALL is not so good of a spec, well, literally, actually and virtually, to say the least, as polite as I can fething muster.
And you still think they'll adress and deliver?
Fething naive.


Seraphim can still be okay, I think.
Make it give 10-15% flat stat increase(10-15% worth of crit, haste, etc) , with some finely tuned cd and duration numbers, slap an awesome animation on, and we're golden.

[Ryuji]

Currently Seraphim's animation looks like this: http://youtu.be/dJlN4cF2yaU?t=3m3s

Pretty meh but well, beta, so yeah.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It took them 7 years to realise that a melee spec virtually, literally and actually without ANY MEANS TO CLOSE THE GAP OR INTERRUPT casts AT ALL is not so good of a spec, well, literally, actually and virtually, to say the least, as polite as I can fething muster.
And you still think they'll adress and deliver?
Fething naive.


Seraphim can still be okay, I think.
Make it give 10-15% flat stat increase(10-15% worth of crit, haste, etc) , with some finely tuned cd and duration numbers, slap an awesome animation on, and we're golden.

I have to wonder what it will be like at the end of an era(Expansion) Seraphim might become weak once you're super high geared.

[Lunavale]

I have to wonder what it will be like at the end of an era(Expansion) Seraphim might become weak once you're super high geared.

Do you mean his flat stat version or the current one? Cause the current one only gets better with gear.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

If I find that retribution is so uncompetitive that I don't justify my raid spot, having protection or holy in a good place doesn't save me. I'm in the guild as dps, they will have enough healers and tanks already.

A lot of rets that I'm in contact with tell me that they're already being asked or warned that 20man is going to put their raid spot in a tougher position and it would be nice if they could play another spec, most of them say ranged strangely. No I'm not calling "ret is dead, reroll". I'm just saying that the impression by the community (raid/guild leaders) is that ret so far has been set back a lot in terms of raid spot value, I have no real fears so far apart from the raid CD removal and the new "utility" concept devs are working on. Numbers will change to make us useful in terms of damage, might be marginally weaker than the average or whatever (like we're in MoP) but still viable.

[Wolfman31]

I'm really not impressed with our lvl 100 talents. They just feel so lazy and underwhelming compared to what other classes are getting. Seraphim is meant to fill the void for people who actually liked Inquisition. Empowered Seals seems to be mocking seal twisting considering how today's Ret plays compared to the old days. Final Verdict seems like it's going to be great at first but just like Exorcism it's going to suffer from horrible scaling by the final tier of the expansion. Obviously these are opinions more than facts based on math but even if my numbers are wrong, these talents still feel underwhelming and not worthy of the lvl 100 talent tier. If this is the best they could come up with, I'd be seriously worried.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Seraphim can still be okay, I think.
Make it give 10-15% flat stat increase(10-15% worth of crit, haste, etc) , with some finely tuned cd and duration numbers, slap an awesome animation on, and we're golden.

What I don't like about the numbers being static is that it just turns into a cd you'd use whenever instead of something you watch and play with based on your own perception of what's "best" by your gear or your current fight situation. I want "skill" to matter and if Seraphim becomes static number then it's taking away a lot of that skill potential.

[Deleted]

Also, why do you consider warriors and dks pures? That's silly.

last i checked, blizzard does too.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Seraphim is meant to fill the void for people who actually liked Inquisition.

Empowered Seals is much closer to Inquisition in play style and game design than Seraphim is.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

last i checked, blizzard does too.

I never got the impression. Perhaps it's bad perception.

[Deleted]

I never got the impression. Perhaps it's bad perception.

well if you want i can dig up the GC quote about teh hybrid tax, where he contrasted Warrs with the hybrids if you like.

[Velshin]

any plans to give ret something unique (aoe grip, solarbeam), so RLs would bring them to RBGs? if u say we have offheals ill mur...
you have offheals (I want to see what happens next) (holinka)

What do you think folks?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

any plans to give ret something unique (aoe grip, solarbeam), so RLs would bring them to RBGs? if u say we have offheals ill mur...
you have offheals (I want to see what happens next) (holinka)

What do you think folks?

It has to be different from Death Grip and Leap of Faith. Otherwise it's homogenization.

[ruiizu]

Looking at Empowered Seals again, feeling like it should provide a buff where your next Judgment grants an additional Holy Power in order to mitigate what is perceived as the "Holy Power/GCD loss." Mechanically I'm not that happy with having to add 4 additional keybinds for a single talent either.

[Lunavale]

any plans to give ret something unique (aoe grip, solarbeam), so RLs would bring them to RBGs? if u say we have offheals ill mur...
you have offheals (I want to see what happens next) (holinka)

What do you think folks?

Well he wants to see what happens next...
*grabs knife*

[Ryuji]

any plans to give ret something unique (aoe grip, solarbeam), so RLs would bring them to RBGs? if u say we have offheals ill mur...
you have offheals (I want to see what happens next) (holinka)

What do you think folks?

#showtooltip Renounce
/stopattack
/cast Renounce

Lol'ing aside, personally I couldn't care less about PvP anymore. I used to like it back in BC and Wrath. Now? CC-fest. I know they're tuning that down in WoD, and I might give it another shot...on a Warrior. Ret's just better off not being in PvP when you compare what they bring vs. other classes, currently. As far as the future is concerned, who knows? Chances are I won't PvP on a paladin though.