Prot Warriors to get the option of being "a true DPS spec"

[Peacemoon]

To quote Celestalon from Twitter, Prot warriors will in WoD get a talent called Gladiator stance which they can activate out of combat only, and turn them into and I quote "a true DPS spec" for an encounter.

Now you might ask why I post this on the Druid forums, and this is because this revelation has truly peeved me off considering everything Blizzard has done to Druids and their feral spec (now feral and guardian spec.)

Feral was historically a really fun spec that could perform tanking or DPS depending on how you spent your talents. No matter how you specialised you could alway make a good stab at the opposite role in a pinch. Then along came MoP and the specs were separated because it didn't fit the class spec paradigm. A bitter pill, but one most of us reluctantly swallowed in the interests of overall balance. Other solutions were played with on the forum such as an out of combat 'attunement spell' that would restrict a Druids ability to perform multiple roles within the same encounter, but it never amounted to anything.

In WoD Guardian and Feral spec are drifting even further apart with many key cat and bear abilities becoming exclusive to the appropriate spec. Another bitter pill we have been sold in the interests of preserving balance and 'pruning abilities'.

And now after all of this painful alterations to our class I find Warriors are going to get a talent, a poxy talent of all things, which will allow them to fulfil both a DPS and Tanking role with the same spec! (albeit they have to choose one or the other before an encounter starts)

Right now every expansion is seeming like it is always a dreadful time for the Druid class. And Blizzard has seemed to go back on their own logic and offered Prot Warriors something we should have had instead of this ridiculous 4th spec fiasco. So yes I am a bit mad, and yes maybe a tad jealous. I am NOT advocating we all grab pitch forks and protest until Gladiator stance is removed. But I am just exasperated by Blizzard's outstanding stupidity on the issue. Feral Druids could have easily had some mechanics like this to balance their ability to switch roles, something some of us even suggested at the time. Something a lot less drastic then what was done, as we are now the only class in the game with a 4th spec. I'm assuming it's too late to sew back together all the wrecking Blizzard has done to Feral, but it is ironic that warriors will now have the ability to do what Blizzard split our spec apart to stop us from being capable of. For now, I am a very grumpy bear.

[Avada Kedavra]

is this the bearcat thread all over again?

[valliant13]

To quote Celestalon from Twitter, Prot warriors will in WoD get a talent called Gladiator stance which they can activate out of combat only, and turn them into and I quote "a true DPS spec" for an encounter.

Now you might ask why I post this on the Druid forums, and this is because this revelation has truly peeved me off considering everything Blizzard has done to Druids and their feral spec (now feral and guardian spec.)

Feral was historically a really fun spec that could perform tanking or DPS depending on how you spent your talents. No matter how you specialised you could alway make a good stab at the opposite role in a pinch. Then along came MoP and the specs were separated because it didn't fit the class spec paradigm. A bitter pill, but one most of us reluctantly swallowed in the interests of overall balance. Other solutions were played with on the forum such as an out of combat 'attunement spell' that would restrict a Druids ability to perform multiple roles within the same encounter, but it never amounted to anything.

In WoD Guardian and Feral spec are drifting even further apart with many key cat and bear abilities becoming exclusive to the appropriate spec. Another bitter pill we have been sold in the interests of preserving balance and 'pruning abilities'.

And now after all of this painful alterations to our class I find Warriors are going to get a talent, a poxy talent of all things, which will allow them to fulfil both a DPS and Tanking role with the same spec! (albeit they have to choose one or the other before an encounter starts)

Right now every expansion is seeming like it is always a dreadful time for the Druid class. And Blizzard has seemed to go back on their own logic and offered Prot Warriors something we should have had instead of this ridiculous 4th spec fiasco. So yes I am a bit mad, and yes maybe a tad jealous. I am NOT advocating we all grab pitch forks and protest until Gladiator stance is removed. But I am just exasperated by Blizzard's outstanding stupidity on the issue. Feral Druids could have easily had some mechanics like this to balance their ability to switch roles, something some of us even suggested at the time. Something a lot less drastic then what was done, as we are now the only class in the game with a 4th spec. I'm assuming it's too late to sew back together all the wrecking Blizzard has done to Feral, but it is ironic that warriors will now have the ability to do what Blizzard split our spec apart to stop us from being capable of. For now, I am a very grumpy bear.

Honestly my issue with Glad stance is that they didn't do this for all tank specs. I know its an experiment but if they had to choose one spec to be a dps shield/1h Pally should have been it imo. Give them two dps options. Otherwise giving tank specs a dps option should have gone to blood or brewmaster first(if it wasn';t a shielf/1h thing which im pretty sure they wanted to make a viable melee shield dps spec)

[huth]

is this the bearcat thread all over again?

Looks like it. Bleh.

Glad stance is nothing like bearcat, it's Sword & Board DPS which we had none of so far.

[Deleted]

Yes I agree with you OP. I think this is more comparable to the death knights though. I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who enjoyed that niche still play death knights. If you had to do this then why in the world would you give it to warriors?

Also why do this in the first place? They should have realized by now that people don't want a "kinda-spec". They will need to support it and balance both prot tank and prot dps (like it happened to feral combat druids) to be viable or it'll end up like the warlock tanking glyph. Everyone hates the glyph and blizzard complains that it was a pain to balance feral. So why wave that carrot in front of a new audience once again? It CLEARLY didn't work out all the previous times.

[Gemini Soul]

I really don't understand the point of this with Dual Spec and how they are making gear change based on your spec.

To me it seems like they put it in, for the few warriors who want to DPS with a shield...

[huth]

To me it seems like they put it in, for the few warriors who want to DPS with a shield...

That is pretty much the entire reasoning. The reason Warriors got it was that Blizz could make it work with only a couple of ability changes.

[cityguy193]

Yes I agree with you OP. I think this is more comparable to the death knights though. I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who enjoyed that niche still play death knights. If you had to do this then why in the world would you give it to warriors?

Also why do this in the first place? They should have realized by now that people don't want a "kinda-spec". They will need to support it and balance both prot tank and prot dps (like it happened to feral combat druids) to be viable or it'll end up like the warlock tanking glyph. Everyone hates the glyph and blizzard complains that it was a pain to balance feral. So why wave that carrot in front of a new audience once again? It CLEARLY didn't work out all the previous times.

which is why they are doing it through a glyph, so they can easily remove it.

[Teye]

And now after all of this painful alterations to our class I find Warriors are going to get a talent, a poxy talent of all things, which will allow them to fulfil both a DPS and Tanking role with the same spec! (albeit they have to choose one or the other before an encounter starts)

You've got to be joking... They can play as DPS? And they have to choose it before combat starts? That's so insanely overpowered!?

Oh wait, its literally exact the same as you re-speccing to Feral right before a fight starts. Exactly. The. Same.

[lunchbox2042]

When they disallow switching forms in combat, then you can have your bearcat spec back again.

[Peacemoon]

That is pretty much the entire reasoning. The reason Warriors got it was that Blizz could make it work with only a couple of ability changes.

Yes but as I put in my original post, they are adding something to Prot warriors which they have spent 2 expansions painstakingly removing from Druids. May I remind you that saying "Blizzard could make it work with only a couple of ability changes" sounds ridiculous to me, when Blizzard have just changed every cat and bear ability, and making alternative versions for different specs, just to ensure it WONT work.

- - - Updated - - -

You've got to be joking... They can play as DPS? And they have to choose it before combat starts? That's so insanely overpowered!?

Oh wait, its literally exact the same as you re-speccing to Feral right before a fight starts. Exactly. The. Same.

In which case it should be a 4th spec like feral and guardian, and not merged as one spec with a quick change when not in combat.

[Mirishka]

This topic stinks of 'druids are now a little less special of a snowflake, QQ' to me.

Druids can perform every role in the game and are the only class in the game with 4 specs. Gladiator stance is just increased damage and the complete loss of ability to tank, and only one ability changes (Shield Block becomes Shield Charge). So yeah. Really not a big deal, and really not worth all that whining and anger, OP.

[Yuyn]

In which case it should be a 4th spec like feral and guardian, and not merged as one spec with a quick change when not in combat.

It shares most of its abilities with Protection. It'd be 90% getting the same stuff, 10% getting different stuff (Shield Charge instead of Shield Block, etc.).

If you want them to re-merge druid specs, then you'd have to accept getting the downside of not being able to drop form mid-combat or swap to another form. That's what this is essentially giving prot warriors... A way to go 'cat', with the caveat that they can't go 'cat' mid-fight and they can't ever leave 'cat' form.

[huth]

Yes but as I put in my original post, they are adding something to Prot warriors which they have spent 2 expansions painstakingly removing from Druids. May I remind you that saying "Blizzard could make it work with only a couple of ability changes" sounds ridiculous to me, when Blizzard have just changed every cat and bear ability, and making alternative versions for different specs, just to ensure it WONT work.

They are not. Glad stance is locked in combat. You're either in it, or outside, but you can't switch. It's completely different from what they removed from Druids, as a Warrior in Gladiator Stance will be no more capable of tanking than an Arms or Fury Warrior, and cannot change this until he leaves combat.

We've already had a dozen page thread on this. Can it.

[Deleted]

Right now every expansion is seeming like it is always a dreadful time for the Druid class

You´re arguably the best Tank atm. Also this whole discussion is pointless, sure you can have something like Gladiator stance if your shapeshifting will be limited to be only usable out of combat.
What´s the point of this thread???

[Deleted]

You´re arguably the best Tank atm. Also this whole discussion is pointless, sure you can have something like Gladiator stance if your shapeshifting will be limited to be only usable out of combat.
What´s the point of this thread???

Best tank atm? What are you talking about? No one should give one single shit about how the numbers are tuned atm considering WoD's current status of beta. It's arguably a pretty horrible time for the people who enjoy current druid specs considering that they all (except resto) are receiving sweeping changes.

Who gains anything from this new stance? Blizzard has to balance it well (which was their reasoning for removing bearcatting and part of the reasoning for the change to DK-specs) or no-one will use it. Why aren't they doing the same for the Warlock tanking glyph?

[Fugus]

Yep OP, instead of doing it right and actually giving Warriors 4 specs.

They gave them 2 specs in one and hid it behind a talent. Now they have no pure tanking spec, now they are 2 DPS and a Hybrid spec.

Waiting for them to give the same to Guardian Druids and Prot Paladins and then watching them go the rest of the way from the QQ they will be getting and doing the same where they turn all the Healer specs in to PvE viable DPS specs as well. And the sad thing is, this isn't sarcasm, this is legit. This is one of the dumbest things blizzard could do as they effectively giving warriors what they took away from druids in a modified form and if you keep saying they are nothing alike, then you aren't paying attention.

[huth]

Yep OP, instead of doing it right and actually giving Warriors 4 specs.

If they did that, they'd have to explain why the rest isn't getting one as well. So they do it as a talent, allowing them to test the waters.

If it works out well, we might see extra specs an expac or two down the line. But right now? They've got enough on their table already.

[Fugus]

If they did that, they'd have to explain why the rest isn't getting one as well. So they do it as a talent, allowing them to test the waters.

If it works out well, we might see extra specs an expac or two down the line. But right now? They've got enough on their table already.

If they did that, they could still test the waters without starting the issues this one will cause in both the PvE and PvP avenues or in aspects of fairness.

The way the new specializations are setup, it really wouldn't be much harder than giving this talent if harder at all.

- - - Updated - - -

Remember, they are choosing between giving them 2 full specs or giving them 2 full specs in one, which one do you think would cause the most issues in the case of balance or player fairness?

[Verain]

Pretend guardian and feral were merged back into feral combat. Now give a button that gives large defensive benefits, but reduces damage done. You can only set or clear this state when not in combat.

I just think it's funny that when this was an issue for druids- and it was- the solution was to make a fourth spec. But for warriors, they just give them a button with the only restriction being "is in combat". Would be trivial to give druids this treatment.