Q from would-be tank: how much communication with 2nd tank is needed?

[rda]

I have always been playing DPS and healer specs, and I'd like to try tanking. I understand I have to know every fight that I tank beforehand, from the tank point of view, and preferably from the point of view of other specs as well, lest I wipe people unnecessarily. That's fine, I can do that.

What's worrying me is something else: most fights use two tanks and so there should be some communication between me and the 2nd tank. My question is: how much of that communication is required and how it is generally performed? How, say, the swaps are normally done - do we just look for debuffs on each other or do we whisper 'take the boss' or what?

Could fellow tanks specify what exactly they say to their counterpart in various SoO encounters, just as an illustration?

Thanks in advance.

[Zedthetank]

Most communication is workout through tells before hand either in previous weeks or just over multiple teirs, once you've tanked with someone for awhile theres very few things that need to be communicated. Some of which include taunt swaps, anything about threat, mob pick ups or if you need a cd. you'll communicate more with your healers than your other tank.

[rda]

What about PUGs, when you and the 2nd tank don't know each other?

[Schadow]

pretty much depending on the other tank and also at what level.

LFR: just look at the debuff
Flex/Normal: some communication who does what at the start, but otherwise, not that much
Heroic: you'll talk on more difficult fights.

[Deleted]

I find I communicate with my 2nd tank very often (thought potentially the healers more). Saying that, I'm the raid leader so I generally communicate a lot of things that otherwise might not need to be, but just being able to call swaps and cooldowns and the like is very useful at the heroic level.

[rda]

OK, it seems it makes sense to simply start in LFR, then move up, figuring it all out on the go.

Thanks a lot.

[femur68]

I raid lead for a 10man guild. I've had the same 2 tanks all expansion. It's gotten to the point where they can practically read each others minds. They still communicate some things, but most they just know the other will do it without saying a word.

[Anzen]

In PuG's I usually just establish what you're going to be doing before the fight, aka whisper the other tank something like "ill start tanking, swap on 3 stacks?".

If it's on a voice com, I'll usually say taunting just before taunting, and if I haven't been taunted off for 5 or so seconds, I'll call for a taunt.

Pretty much it tbh.

[Sageofthe10paths]

Both tanks need to be perfectly in sync so tons of communication and teamwork is needed

[Anzen]

Both tanks need to be perfectly in sync so tons of communication and teamwork is needed

Really? Basically the entire raid is "taunt at X stacks"? Unless sarcasm of course.

[Deleted]

Both tanks need to be perfectly in sync so tons of communication and teamwork is needed

I cant tell if your being super sarcastic or not :-D lol

As per the tank questions it depends on the difficulty. If its is LRF / PUG not much because at the moment most bosses are taunt at stack. You might need a wispier at the start so you both know the fight. The higher the difficulty the more communication / team work is required.
The import thing about tanking is know the fight and be aware of your DPS / healer and their positions

[Deleted]

@OP generally it's a bad idea to have tanks whispering each other during combat for taunt swaps. taunt swaps generally aren't particularly dynamic so you can either memorise when to taunt based on a pre-determined strategy or just pretty much taunt once your stacks fall off (with a few exceptions). Most communication will happen before combat, if at all, just to confirm strategy (whose taking which boss first on council fights, or whose taking adds, or doing towers, etc). a large part of tanking is just being aware of what the other tank is doing, where they are and what state their debuff is.

Generally a well versed pair of tanks will not communicate at all in combat because each already knows what the other one is doing.

[Largehorn]

I cant tell if your being super sarcastic or not :-D lol

As per the tank questions it depends on the difficulty. If its is LRF / PUG not much because at the moment most bosses are taunt at stack. You might need a wispier at the start so you both know the fight. The higher the difficulty the more communication / team work is required.
The import thing about tanking is know the fight and be aware of your DPS / healer and their positions

I've found that at higher difficulties communication between tanks drops off after progression. I get that I am likely spoiled (I have been tanking with the same guy for 2 expansions now ) but we only communicate with each other learning a fight and I think a lot of that has to do with him being RL and my previous experience doing that job. Once a fight is on farm, all our call outs are for healers...not each other (ignoring emergencies of course).

PUGing and LFRs, I can't share much of what the current paradigm for it is, because I haven't done either in a long time.This is what I did:

Before the run starts (or during opening trash), I always ask if my partner had done the fights before. A yes would result in before the boss whispers of "you want it first or do you want me to do it?" A no, would result in "Cool! Here's what we are going to do....[fight mechanics]".

Because I prefer to play hanging out with people in vent and just generally talk, I made a few macros for PUG tanking.

#Showtooltip Taunt {or Growl or what ever the DK/Pally ones are}
/rw Taunting {just in case you have it. I know that I don't normally read raid chat during a boss fight so I assume others might not as well, while raid warnings appear in the same place as my DBM calls outs.}
/ra Taunting
/cast Taunt{etc...}

/rw Please Taunt
/ra Please Taunt

Crazily enough, I have found that just "Taunt" macros don't work well for me but the Please Taunts do. Funny that. Even with those macros I find that once I have talked to my tanking partner they are more for the healers, but it is nice to have them for the case when I got a partner who didn't ever respond to those opening whispers.

[Spotnick]

I believe most tanks in raid have their own vent/mumble/ts binding to talk to each other, for progression that is.

[Hyve]

I believe most tanks in raid have their own vent/mumble/ts binding to talk to each other, for progression that is.

In a Guild, yes, but for your average PuG it's just whispers.

[Akantor101]

Take this with a grain of salt, because I am also raid leading so I tend to talk... pretty much all fight.
There are many variables that you must consider in regards to communication, and especially, who with. The quick answer would be, not much communication is needed, but there are exceptions.

1. Who you're tanking with: If you are with a PUG, you should automatically assume they will not know what you want them to do, WHEN you want them to do it. This ability comes from tanking with the same person for a long time (I have raided for about 5 years with only 2 tanks, minus the occasional PUG). If they have achievements you SHOULD still communicate, better to be on top of things, sometimes I even forget to taunt at X stacks (albeit rare). Do not let Ilvl or what ALTS they link you the armory to decide their capabilities.

2. The Fights: Take Immersius (?) for example. Taunt at 1 stack, easy, when he splits you may need to communicate whether or not you want to swap who soaks the puddle damage (if you want). This fight requires little to no communication at all. Now, think about Paragons, Norushen, and even Sha, you are going to want to make sure BOTH you and your partner are pretty coordinated, who tanks which Paragon, who will taunt when and keep track of corruption levels, and even who will tank what and who will soak rifts.

3. Classes: Though more minor, what class the person you're tanking with does make a difference. Throwback to Lei Shi, lets say you're a brewmaster, and other than a few CDs, you didn't have as much magic magic mitigation or recovery as say a DK or a Paladin. You may want to let them know they may be picking them up sooner and you may be taunting later. Major raid CDs should also be called for when needed by yourself or if the fight requires it. (I use Avert Harm during Iron Juggernaut after the 2nd Flame Jet to help smooth out damage, unless we need it for Seismic Activity)

Though you may not ever NEED to communicate, it never hurts to stay coordinated, and furthermore, though some raid leaders are NOT tanks, I find it better that a tank calls out important information, mostly taunt timers, mechanics, phase changes, and, if you talk to the raid leader, major raid wide CDs.
Real world example, Protectors fight, I'm tanking He and he still has Noxious Poison up. We just hit Sun's Desperate Measures phase, everyone groups up in the bubble, but I don't want to drop poison inside. I let the raid know that I will be positioned outside the bubble and everyone should be careful that if they get garroted, they should move out of the poison. He then switches to Deadly Poison, so I tell the raid and step into the bubble. Unfortunately, right as you go in, someone's poor positioning got a Corruption Kick right in the bubble. You should call out for people to move out of the bubble and use some sort of CD if necessary. I know that a lot of the communication is not necessarily with the other tank, but its still communication that I find necessary for the tank to perform.

Short story shorter, communication is a lot less necessary now than back in Vanilla and BC, but there is hardly ever a reason NOT to communicate. Good luck with tanking!

[britishbubba]

Most communication is workout through tells before hand either in previous weeks or just over multiple teirs, once you've tanked with someone for awhile theres very few things that need to be communicated. Some of which include taunt swaps, anything about threat, mob pick ups or if you need a cd. you'll communicate more with your healers than your other tank.

As dis guys old co-tank, the answer is simple.

It depends on how long you've tanked together with the other tank. Some tanks will need their hands held in order to get anywhere through the fight. Tank with someone for awhile though, and you both never say much beyond "external A" or "taunting" or "fuck I hit taunt by mistake".

If it's a pug, you're going to talk a lot. Be it through whispers, over voice comms, what have you, it's gunna happen.

Tanking is hard.

[Sarthan]

If you are doing heroics like my guild you and the off-tank need to become best buddies because you have to work together on everything.

[Daedelus]

top tip: set the other tank as your focus target so you can see debuffs on him easily. Generally speaking, in a lot of fights, as soon as a debuff goes on to them you should taunt. Likewise, as soon as any debuffs on you wear off you can taunt back.

[Ibis]

top tip: set the other tank as your focus target so you can see debuffs on him easily.

Or set up main tank frames to your liking. I think majority of PUG tanking problems come from people not having main tank (or focus) frames where you can easily see debuff stacks. Also all tanks and anyone interested in that should have their preferred system to see when someone (i.e. anyone in the raid) taunts, there are multiple addons for that. Always nice to see those "using taunt on cooldown even when I'm tanking making the boss immune to taunts" tanks <3

I think (voice) communication is only needed when something out of the ordinary happens and otherwise should be left for raid leaders to call out for raid cooldowns and whatever they like to announce. I mostly discuss matters with my fellow tank in whispers pre- and post-fight, even in guild runs if it only involves what me and the other tank are doing.