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  1. #241
    Well we wouldn't need the dark soul glyph if we were not taking demon bolt. And once doomguard starts working with goserv we wouldn't actually need the demon training glyph unless they add something doomguard specific for it. I was basically wanting to test the burst on beta with live burst to see if it was comparable. Mostly to see if we have an alternative playstyle if and when demon bolt gets gutted. Because with destro being worthless it would suck to have demo worthless as well. Affliction is fun and all but it gets old and having a secondary spec makes a huge difference on fun. Hell on live right now I can play all 3 specs and perform well which is awesome.

  2. #242
    Deleted
    What's the stats prior for demolock in pvp ?

  3. #243
    are glad stance warriors are as tough to face as im currently thinking, prot that can dps with prots defensive cd's or am i missing something there for pvp.

  4. #244
    I'm not quite certain about the stat priority for Demo but I usually go to a attainable haste breakpoint then go mastery>crit. But if in doubt just stack mastery and you should be fine. @Jupiteran Warriors and DK' s both will be a nightmare to fight. Mellee in general will be a nightmare in any form of pvp that you don't have healers and peepers to keep you safe. Teamwork is your best friend.
    Last edited by Lucidious; 2014-10-08 at 10:22 PM.

  5. #245
    Glad stance is like the early MoP beta DA glyph that made locks legit tanks before it was nerfed and penalized and eventually removed. But since its a melee, especially a warrior, its cool. Warriors got a pretty good ride in pvp for MoP. While we are moving into a new expac the decision makers are largely the same thus who evaluates "what is okay" probably isn't changing. Warriors get to have nice toys for pvp...locks, not so much. Since warriors are also outshining most everyone in pve I would expect nerfs if things were run logically which isn't something we can bank on to say the least.

  6. #246
    while im still here, cuse i got tired of beta imma just fix locks in pvp for bliz and u guys just in 5 steps:

    1. howl became baseline for aff, coil for demo, shadowfury for destro, that talent teir get remplaced with something like, demonic breath, some kind of root in a 40 sec cd and a talent that could improve shadowfury,howl and coil, or even better carrion swarm bam kiting problem solved

    2. nerf the fuck out of demonbolt, buff the fuck out of CB, allow grim serv work with Gosac by giving u 2 spells from the doomguard and infernal instend of 1 and like 10% more dmgs mab?

    3.make fear has it 8 secs again put it in 25 or 20 yards, cc problem solved.

    4. mobility? u are a lock why the fuck do u want mobility? role a mage

    5. self healing? mab u can turn drainlife into something that u get more % life from how close u are to your target so its become usable vs melee and not retarded vs caster "oh but the melee will interrupt you yada yada" i just gave u some tools to cc them use it plz ty

    mab fel flame? but it wont be needed if this chnaged are made

  7. #247
    Destro needs fel flame back. Affliction needs something to cast that isn't shadow school...drain life would be one of my first picks. I like the idea of a baseline coil/demo, howl/aff, shadowfury/destro....redo that talent to have breath of "never been spec'd by any lock intentionally pve or pvp in history" to a root fading into a 70% snare fading to a 50% snare before falling off. The other two options are buffed versions of your inherent CC or shorter CD's on the base version of your spec's inherent CC. Give DL the glyph's healing baseline (stupid you need a talent and glyph to get the spell onto your bars period) and let the glyph make it interrupt immune but no longer generate DF or embers...I mean we need to be able to fight back a bit better with melee on us...since they pretty much always are. Cobra/steady shot have been both mobile and uninterruptable casts for years, I hardly see DL as a problem given the pathetic damage it does. Even if they took resource generation off DL it would be a welcome change. Devs talk about CC DR's a ton but why don't interrupts ever DR vs player targets? Pets also still die to nearly anything so I kind of feel like having them take 30-50% less damage from player sources wouldn't be out of line since so many of our skills and mitigation come from them being alive.

  8. #248
    i forgot about something, remove the crap out of gate way REMOVE IT FOR GOD SAKE,

  9. #249
    So I decided to play Demo/Disc yesterday after doing some enjoyable Monk/Disc. We ended up fighting a DK/Fire mage and killed the mage pretty quickly. Then for the remainder of the arena, we spent all of our time chasing the DK and tyring to kill him, and he just wouldn't die... The game ended in a draw.
    That's right, even with 91% Dampening, the DK was still able to survive for the rest of the game. In between his 30 sec CD Asphyxiate, Death Grip to interrupt, Mind Freeze, permanent slows, Desecrated Grounds, 45 sec CD AMS, Icebound Fortitude, Conversion, Lichborne and general LoSing and Death Strike spam it was IMPOSSIBLE to reliably get more than 1 cast on him and certainly unimaginable to actually kill him off.
    The fact that he had access to so much mobility and so much CC-breakers as well as CCs meant that half the time he could kite around while we'd end up chasing him with a lot of trouble, especially since Frost Dks have reduced snare duration and access to Chains of Ice, whereas Demo Locks only have one root (HoG x2) on a 30 sec(?) CD...
    I'd seriously deem it the most disgusting game I've ever played yet, and I've even recorded the last 10 minutes of it that I'll hopefully release with some documentation to show how infuriating the discrepancy between casters and melee is, especially when it comes to a class as broken as DKs.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by gez View Post
    while im still here, cuse i got tired of beta imma just fix locks in pvp for bliz and u guys just in 5 steps:

    1. howl became baseline for aff, coil for demo, shadowfury for destro, that talent teir get remplaced with something like, demonic breath, some kind of root in a 40 sec cd and a talent that could improve shadowfury,howl and coil, or even better carrion swarm bam kiting problem Solved
    I like this idea a lot, seeing how you almost always pick those talents for those specs. Replace that tier with like a choice between fel flame, demonic breath, and maybe the old proposed cripple? It's such a good idea in fact that it's depressing, since the devs would likely just make some snide remark in place of an actual thoughtful reply.

  11. #251
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    I'd seriously deem it the most disgusting game I've ever played yet, and I've even recorded the last 10 minutes of it that I'll hopefully release with some documentation to show how infuriating the discrepancy between casters and melee is, especially when it comes to a class as broken as DKs.
    Learn to play, you've got KJC.


    On a more serious note, that's sad to hear if our most mobile spec is having that problem, though at least it's limited to arenas (not that that's much consolation).

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Learn to play, you've got KJC.


    On a more serious note, that's sad to hear if our most mobile spec is having that problem, though at least it's limited to arenas (not that that's much consolation).
    I swear getting kited by a DK while having access to Body and Soul and Leap of Faith was the least of my problems. You should see how IMPOSSIBLE it is to actually get a spell off vs a DK. You have to go through Mind Freeze, then Death Grip, then Asphyxiate, then AMS. Oh by that time Mind Freeze is back up. Juked that? Too bad Death Grip is off CD now. Got past that? Great, Asphyxiate is off cooldown now. Oh look, AMS is back up now. What's that, I have to juke another Mind Freeze?

    Oh and let's say you want to go for CC to actually land something. Great! Coiled him? Never mind just Desecrated Grounds. Got a fear off? Never mind just use Lichborne. Silenced him? Oh look he can use his trinket. Stunned him? No problem Icebound Fortitude.
    So let's see, we got him to use all of that now all that's left to do is wait for another 45 seconds so that our CC comes back off cooldown! Maybe then we could actually land a cast or two? AS if that's enough to actually kill a DK. You really can't begin to imagine how frustrating it was, to have to go through 3 minutes of CD shuffling ONLY to be able to chain CC the DK in order to land 2 Demonbolts that make up for 40% of his HP. And this was TWO players vs ONE.

    Edit: I also got to the point where I was using Hellfire to generate Fury while he was kiting around the pillar, which is pathetic design and shows how Blizzard's made a big mistake in that department.

  13. #253
    Problem 1: you can't run from any spec of any class
    Problem 2: you can't fight back with a melee of any kind on you (compounded by #1)
    Problem 3: dots by themselves are overthrottled by haunt + DS for pve but makes pvp dots trivial - need to tick harder vs players by like 50%
    Problem 4: we still trade HP for mana but our HP returns are still crap. We can't take a dump without a HP tradeoff
    Problem 5: drain/harvest life will always be impossible to balance until its made useable amidst distress/melee in our face. Uninterruptable and even perhaps mobile casting first, tune numbers second, favor healing > damage strongly.
    Problem 6: with no root, only gyph'd snares that are 50% (when melee passively snares for the same or more) even if we somehow get away they are right back on us.
    Problem 7: the time it takes dots alone to kill even afk is longer than the rez timer of any bg
    Problem 8: our CC is so nerfed we can't even play a spread pressure cc bot anymore, there is literally no class less suited to pvp than locks.
    Problem 9: being a pure dps and unable to kill something is perhaps the most unfun iteration of game design I've ever seen.
    Problem 10: we have been saying this stuff for months and the devs just get snide with us. C'mon if that poor level of customer service were displayed elsewhere it would be deemed unacceptable and unprofessional.

    I mean if you went to the store and didn't get what you ordered and the clerk said "psh sucks to be you bruh, that looks like what you ordered to me" how would that business do? How long would/should that employee keep their job? If you really think KJC is the solution to melee in pvp you clearly haven't tried it at 100.

  14. #254
    Pit Lord RH92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    *Post*
    I think you forgot to say that as Affliction everything is Shadow school. Just interrupt everything, with Destruction people at least have to think about cutting off CC or damage.

    It won't stop me from playing my beloved Affliction though, but it certainly does feel crippled. I haven't played much in MoP, so I was never used to this casting while moving, but I think Affliction in PvP is generally worse now than it was in Cataclysm. Self-Healing is restricted to heavy use of Glyphs and talent, all the 3 DoTs does less damage than a single Feral bleed and Demonic Gateway as "replacement" for Death Coil with basically a 1 min nerf.

    I know we got other tools too, but I don't think they are a good replacement for what we lost.

  15. #255
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by RH92 View Post
    but I think Affliction in PvP is generally worse now than it was in Cataclysm.
    That's the conclusion I've reached, though I think I hit it some time during MOP. Never thought I'd look back fondly on Cataclysm considering I loathed the expansion at the time, but affliction at least seemed better designed in pve and certainly lightyears better in pvp.

    In hindsight, BFG was pretty darn fun compared to what pvp has been offering lately.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    That's the conclusion I've reached, though I think I hit it some time during MOP. Never thought I'd look back fondly on Cataclysm considering I loathed the expansion at the time, but affliction at least seemed better designed in pve and certainly lightyears better in pvp.

    In hindsight, BFG was pretty darn fun compared to what pvp has been offering lately.
    What's BFG?

  17. #257
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    What's BFG?
    Battle for Gilneas. Spent an awful lot of time towards the tail end of Cata in there as affliction and adore the place.

  18. #258
    Unless you are getting beaten to death warriors have a zerker for every howl, a reflect for every coil, and shadowfury is hardly enough time to do much of anything in pvp. The fear duration nerfs mean anything after the first fear takes almost as long to cast (esp if juking) as it does in CC. If the demo nerfs stick for the most part and destro is already too immobile for even PVE I don't have much hope for the class in pvp right now. These changes will hit the average player hardest. C'mon most locks don't have the luxury of running around with a tourney level pocket healer and similarly gifted bursty dps who can both peel and kill unlike the lock. Take all 3x aff dots and they don't equal a single bleed from feral or warriors even. Multi dot pressure? Shadow has better plus burst plus better mobility plus the self healing. I can't think of a single comp using any spec of lock that wouldn't be stronger with ANY other class. Clearly holinka, Jay Wilson (D3's issues put you on the wow team?), and team have not thought out lock pvp or are just expecting us to avoid that area of the game and roll a melee, hunter, or mage.

    Nagassh, those slugfests at lighthouse rolling dots on everything with a HP bar and rotating fear DR on healers WAS fun. Then again so was destro with pre 5.4 MF and aoe nuking the lot of them under a carpet of RoF. To this day the most fun I've had in an RBG was 5.1'ish ran a 2.1K'ish MMR RBG with stacked demo locks. Drop 15-20 chaoswaves with IA on a pack and watch their team all fall down. Its not like a roots/solar/sweeping strikes/reckstorm hasn't done the same thing but with only 1 warrior but blizz is cool with warriors having nice pvp abilities. Demo would be a logical choice for pvp but just doesn't get the mechanics to function well with the other two specs having even worse mechanics (numbers completely aside for a minute).

    Almost wonder if goblin is going to be a thing for pvp warlocks (all 11 of them after the first season) since demo leap, port, goblin jump and the ever maddening gateway is the only way we are likely to see even the smallest of casting gaps.

  19. #259
    Glyph of Ember Tap was causing Ember Tap to heal for more than intended. Additionally, the glyph now increases the healing of Ember Tap by 2% (down from 5%).
    The glyph was awful anyway since it basically stopped Ember Tap from being spammable. Kinda curious why it deserved a nerf.

  20. #260
    Okay who talented ember tap glyph accidentally thus triggering the nerf?!? Pretty sure that hasn't been used in living memory. Especially after how little ember tap heals for so 5% more on top of crap is still crap....but crap is too good for us. I could see nerfing ember tap when you spec charred remains but making the entire talent de facto useless over a potential thing at 100 is really bad design. I have a feeling this is going to be the most punishing, hypocritical, unfun, and lamest expansions for warlocks ever if beta and 6.0.x are any indication.

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