Beta for Shamans!

[Lavindar]

It's best for Enhancement if Flame Shock does more dmg if you choose to play with EotE.

Frost Shock has no place in the Talent in my opinion, if you end up using it for utility it's near useless in EotE and if you use it for your rotation you'll sitting on the cd because you don't want to waste the proc you just got, right now it's the same as the old Lock and Load for Hunters: you feel punished if you accidently "waste" it on Frost Shock, like hunters did with Arcane Shot.

But if it keep the way it was tested about refreshing Flame Shock, then Echo of the Elements will actually be detrimental to use with Flame Shock, outside of multidotting, but with Lava Lash spread even on this case will not be very good to use the proc on Flame Shock.

Edit: Another question, is Liquid Magma considered a spell, is it buffed by Unleash Flames/Unleash Elements?

[broheals22]

So just tested Beastlord Darmac and elemental AoE is fucking terrible, EQ makes us go OOM so damn quick. Chain lightning is shit still. It is better to single target which is sad!

[Deleted]

But if it keep the way it was tested about refreshing Flame Shock, then Echo of the Elements will actually be detrimental to use with Flame Shock, outside of multidotting, but with Lava Lash spread even on this case will not be very good to use the proc on Flame Shock.

Flame Shock is not included in EotE, only Frost Shock, but the effect is the same, yes.

Edit: Another question, is Liquid Magma considered a spell, is it buffed by Unleash Flames/Unleash Elements?

Liquid Magma is weird, I think it is considered a spell by the Totem, it does not consume the buff and it can't multistrike, just like Totems (but I think they wanted to fix that, so maybe this will solve it for Liquid Magma too)

So just tested Beastlord Darmac and elemental AoE is fucking terrible, EQ makes us go OOM so damn quick. Chain lightning is shit still. It is better to single target which is sad!

The Chain Lightning "buff" is not up yet, and tuning isn't done either, so I doubt we will end up like that.

[Omanley]

Another question: What do Primal Wisdom and Mental Quickness state on beta? On wow-head, PW is blank and MQ states jibberish about a guaranteed chance to generate Mana on melee hits (previously PW's job, on MoP wow-head, MQ AND PW have PW's effect).
Afaik blizz stated they wanted to (double?) our active mana regeneration.

So:
What are the current tooltips for PW and MQ?
How is enh mana reg looking like atm? Do we reg trough attacking, do we reg fast passive, do we reg fast enough to not oom while dpsing, do we reg fast enough to use purge often, if not, how much do we get back by the time we are oom to be expected (16.4 * 6 = 98,4 => 6 purges oom, how many mana left with new mana reg, while not attacking, how much left while attacking)

And Nature's guardian afaik granted the health it gave as a heal also, yet the tooltip is unclear about it. As I saw now mention of it ever being nerved, I assume it still gives that heal, but you never know with blizz, so I'd appreciate a test to look if it still healed (must admit I missed the buff from 15% to 25% in 5.0.1 )

A test how long SBT lasts with 10% player life and the change from no resilience => higher hitpoints would be also nice, maybe the same for elemental totems (not the pets, but the totems).

Edit: If it is accessible, what is the pvp glove bonus right now? It was 5y + range for shocks, I believe. With the glyph of shocks on beta wow-head, and pvp set bonuses changing, I fear we will lose that bonus and will have to make do with 25y shocks as enh, which sucks looking at how FrS will be needed for gap closing. Anyway to confirm this?

Oh, and thanks for your efforts.

Edit²: I noticed from a yt video uploaded on 18th of july (2 weeks ago), that ele pvp set bonus does essentially the same as the glyph of spiritwalker's agis. Is that atm the case, and ele basically can ignore the glyph, making it useful for resto only?

I guess on the same matter (pvp set bonuses, includes the above questions of pvp glove bonus for enh/ele), I wonder how the 2p enh bonus works, as it states "When you activate Feral Spirits, the duration of incoming crowd control effects is reduced by 50% for 30 sec.", not cause loss of control, so I wonder if it reduces snare reduction, which would stack with voodoo shuffle, I assume, to make it a 65% snare reduction which sounds kinda nice, even if it doesn't solve our mobility issues even so.

[Beefshamburg]

What are the current tooltips for PW and MQ?

PW has been removed and I believe MQ has been renamed Lightning Strikes. Lightning Strikes - Passive - You gain 5% more of the haste stat from all sources.

How is enh mana reg looking like atm? Do we reg trough attacking, do we reg fast passive, do we reg fast enough to not oom while dpsing, do we reg fast enough to use purge often, if not, how much do we get back by the time we are oom to be expected (16.4 * 6 = 98,4 => 6 purges oom, how many mana left with new mana reg, while not attacking, how much left while attacking)

I cant say how well the mana regen works with purging as i havent has much time to test pvp but i currently have 2,560 mp5 in combat and 9,015 outside of combat with a 32k mana pool. So you gain roughly 1/10th of your mana per second in combat. Purges mana cost is 1312, so i have roughly double that in mp5 meaning you could theoretically purge twice every 5 seconds and be mana neutral.

And Nature's guardian afaik granted the health it gave as a heal also, yet the tooltip is unclear about it. As I saw now mention of it ever being nerved, I assume it still gives that heal, but you never know with blizz, so I'd appreciate a test to look if it still healed (must admit I missed the buff from 15% to 25% in 5.0.1 )

Still appears to have the same functionality

A test how long SBT lasts with 10% player life and the change from no resilience => higher hitpoints would be also nice, maybe the same for elemental totems (not the pets, but the totems).

Currently, not that long. SBT isnt that strong.

Edit: If it is accessible, what is the pvp glove bonus right now? It was 5y + range for shocks, I believe. With the glyph of shocks on beta wow-head, and pvp set bonuses changing, I fear we will lose that bonus and will have to make do with 25y shocks as enh, which sucks looking at how FrS will be needed for gap closing. Anyway to confirm this?

There isnt any bonus on the gloves yet. We do have glyph of frostbrand weapon though which makes your offhand weapon attacks also slow the target by 50% for 3 seconds

Oh, and thanks for your efforts.

No problem, hope i answered all your questions!

[Omanley]

-snip-

Odd for them to replace our mana regen passive with our secondary stat affinity. I guess this mana regen thing is something hidden we wont get any chance to view in our toolbox, like other stuff they decided to hide, to make the spellbook less stuffed, maybe.

I guess this leaves still open the exact numbers, though your test gives a nice clue, thanks!
Some things I noticed: 32k mana pool and 1312 mana cost sounds kinda weird from enh POV, so I assume you're ele/resto, as enh would be oom after 6 purges, not ~24. Otherwise Purge would be at ~4% base mana, down from 16.4%, which sounds like they either gave us the old MQ benefit to Purge back, or you're ele/resto, or there's a bug.
I know I specifically stated enh mana reg, and you quoted it as such, just wanna make sure wether or not we'll be able to spam purge, as it looks would be possible, by your numbers.

The following math is based on your numbers, which I suspect are ele/resto ones, but anyway:
Purge is not affected by flurry, so 1.5s gcd. If your numbers are indeed enh ones, we can cast purge ~24 times at which point there would be hardly a point to mana regen worries, I'd say . If we were to purge 24 times...
1312*24 => 31488mana (you stated 32k mana pool)
24*1.5s gcd => 36 seconds purge spam
2560mp5/5 in combat=> 506m/s
31488/506 => ~62.23s of time needed getting back to full after 24 purges, 24 purges getting rid of our entire mana, requiring 36seconds, 506mana/s*36s => 18216 mana regenerated during this time frame, which is 58% of our mana, which would be enough for another 14 purges, another 8-9 after that, another 5 after that, another 3, another 2, another one...at which we would be at zero mana...after 24+14+8+5+3+2+1 => 57 purges => 85.5s of constant purging...so relistically, when only purging when there is something to purge, and including times at which we consume no mana (being kited around pillars for example), it should be pretty much impossible to go oom with enh in pvp, if indeed you supplied enhancement ones :P (please tell me it's true, lol, purge spam back, yay! (even if only one dispell))


Good thing about NG.

So SBT is taken out quickly by others, like always? I suspected that. Or did you interpret that as how long the shaman lasts at 10% hp, with SBT up? My mindset is how long does an enemy player need to take it out (which I suspect isn't long anyway, looking at the ~10s burst videos from swifty on beta, with different specs, 10% player live doesn't look like much in comparison).

I know that about glyph of FBW, but looking at how mobility is like to be an issue come WoD, I suspect Windwalk and GW glyphs to be of higher priority, in case you considered an extra snare. Because of the same reaosn, WWT is usually chosen over Frozen Power. Besides, glyph slots are still very restricted, due to LS gylph still being there. Also, FBW glyph requires melee uptime, and getting into melee range will be harder with shorter ranged frost shocks to begin with.

[Beefshamburg]

So SBT is taken out quickly by others, like always? I suspected that. Or did you interpret that as how long the shaman lasts at 10% hp, with SBT up? My mindset is how long does an enemy player need to take it out (which I suspect isn't long anyway, looking at the ~10s burst videos from swifty on beta, with different specs, 10% player live doesn't look like much in comparison).

Yeah it only takes at most 2 globals to take the totem out at 10% hp. The amount of the absorb takes around the same amount of time to break.

[withoutaname]

I'm a little worry about frostbrand glyph. Does it proc every hit or is there a only a chance? Considering how well this glyph does, will the slow be put on DR?

[Lavindar]

I'm a little worry about frostbrand glyph. Does it proc every hit or is there a only a chance? Considering how well this glyph does, will the slow be put on DR?

I don't have access to beta, so I can't confirm, but for the information I have, there are no DR on slows in WoD.

-- --

Hey I have another question for the awesome testers who keep answering here

Does Molten Earth keeps damaging the enemies during times when the shaman is pacified? Like a Paladin Bubble, or mechanics in PvE where you can't control your character like the intro to the Alysrazor fight where Fandral is talking?

[shamantime]

I don't know if this was answered already but, do Flame Shock ticks trigger Molten Earth?

[Nebria]

I don't know if this was answered already but, do Flame Shock ticks trigger Molten Earth?

only the initial tick. the dot ticks do not.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't have access to beta, so I can't confirm, but for the information I have, there are no DR on slows in WoD.

I think you are right about DR on slows. read something similar.

Does Molten Earth keeps damaging the enemies during times when the shaman is pacified? Like a Paladin Bubble, or mechanics in PvE where you can't control your character like the intro to the Alysrazor fight where Fandral is talking?

It is hard to test this molten earth scenario. Why should the bubble stop my attacks? I can even attack with it? Right?
If I attack a paladin with bubble it doesn't matter if it stops or attacks anyway. Except if there is a delay before it is removed or not.
I would expect to continue attacking to be honest.

In the Aly-Fandragal scenarion well if there is still something to attack it would finish its attacks I guess. Maybe I test this. Would also like to know if ME is working when flying and what numbers I get with my current SoO reforge (full mastery).

[Lavindar]

only the initial tick. the dot ticks do not.

- - - Updated - - -


I think you are right about DR on slows. read something similar.


It is hard to test this molten earth scenario. Why should the bubble stop my attacks? I can even attack with it? Right?
If I attack a paladin with bubble it doesn't matter if it stops or attacks anyway. Except if there is a delay before it is removed or not.
I would expect to continue attacking to be honest.

In the Aly-Fandragal scenarion well if there is still something to attack it would finish its attacks I guess. Maybe I test this. Would also like to know if ME is working when flying and what numbers I get with my current SoO reforge (full mastery).

Well I was refereeing to the ability that paladins can cast in others and they get pacified. I think it's Hand of Protection, sorry I am not that familiar with paladins spells :/

[vykas]

The pacify only stops melee attacks I believe.

[Nebria]

In the Aly-Fandragal scenarion well if there is still something to attack it would finish its attacks I guess. Maybe I test this. Would also like to know if ME is working when flying and what numbers I get with my current SoO reforge (full mastery).

so I did an alysrazar run with my lvl 90 copied 584 full mastery ele. First impression: what a damage. For people who don't know yet, you do now much more damage to mobs that are below your level. Trash is almost a one hit.
Good news is that after attacking Fandragal with a FS, ME continued to fire on him even when I was rooted and he talked his stuff.
2nd good news is that ME works when you are fly. They won't come from the earth instead they spawn in the near of you, below you. I gues it is just the same spawn animation we have when on earth. It is an "ilusion" that they spawn from they. They just spawn below you. Was pretty fun to watch all the missiles attack^^ No mount dropped ;(

[Lavindar]

so I did an alysrazar run with my lvl 90 copied 584 full mastery ele. First impression: what a damage. For people who don't know yet, you do now much more damage to mobs that are below your level. Trash is almost a one hit.
Good news is that after attacking Fandragal with a FS, ME continued to fire on him even when I was rooted and he talked his stuff.
2nd good news is that ME works when you are fly. They won't come from the earth instead they spawn in the near of you, below you. I gues it is just the same spawn animation we have when on earth. It is an "ilusion" that they spawn from they. They just spawn below you. Was pretty fun to watch all the missiles attack^^ No mount dropped ;(

Wow thanks, if ME don't stop on the RP moments I am sure that sooner or later it will happen to kill a boss during one of these raid wide stuns moments, just for the fun of it

[Deleted]

Wow thanks, if ME don't stop on the RP moments I am sure that sooner or later it will happen to kill a boss during one of these raid wide stuns moments, just for the fun of it

I always assumed it would work like this. It is essentially a glorified, better AI, better scaling Searing Totem. Searing Totem has always worked like this, continueing to pew pew your target whilst they natter on (which I always thought was hilarious, if you think about what they are actually doing, making some brilliant speech about how they are going to conquer the world or have unlimited power or whatever, then get interrupted as a little puff of fire gets thrown into their face).

[Nebria]

Wow thanks, if ME don't stop on the RP moments I am sure that sooner or later it will happen to kill a boss during one of these raid wide stuns moments, just for the fun of it

did some quick icc hc run and killed arthas during p2. he then talked about 2 minutes with one life only^^ even didn't kill me to get rezzed, just bla bla ba, fording shatters the sword, arthas dead^^ yet again no mount^^
but it is fun that you can now solo old raids very easy. well lets see if I can farm my shaman set in soo flex with lvl100^^

[Lavindar]

Ok, another question(s):

What happens if one cast Liquid Magma without a fire totem active?
What happens if the totem ends before the end of Liquid Magma?
Is Liquid Magma in the GCD?
if no, does this macro works:

/cast Searing Totem
/cast Liquid Magma

[Nebria]

Ok, another question(s):

What happens if one cast Liquid Magma without a fire totem active?
What happens if the totem ends before the end of Liquid Magma?
Is Liquid Magma in the GCD?
if no, does this macro works:

/cast Searing Totem
/cast Liquid Magma

if you want to cast Liqui Magma (LM) without a fire totem you get the message "no target available"
if your totem ends before end of LM, well LM ends too cause without totem the source of LM is gone.
if you replace your totem while LM was active, it is gone too.
LM triggers a gcd.
The macro does not work.
you need to be in LOS of the fire totem or LM won't attack, but you would get a cd.
if you are in LOS of your totem, but not in LOS of a target, LM won't attack but trigger a cd
if you have a fs on a target that it not in LOS, but you are in LOS of the totem and trigger LM, it will attack the target and nearby targets, even if it fire through walls
if you are in LOS of the totem and of targets it attacks random targets in range.
LM can also attack somebody on a tower.
lm has the same range limit as the totem, 40 yards.

[Lavindar]

if you want to cast Liqui Magma (LM) without a fire totem you get the message "no target available"
if your totem ends before end of LM, well LM ends too cause without totem the source of LM is gone.
if you replace your totem while LM was active, it is gone too.
LM triggers a gcd.
The macro does not work.
you need to be in LOS of the fire totem or LM won't attack, but you would get a cd.
if you are in LOS of your totem, but not in LOS of a target, LM won't attack but trigger a cd
if you have a fs on a target that it not in LOS, but you are in LOS of the totem and trigger LM, it will attack the target and nearby targets, even if it fire through walls
if you are in LOS of the totem and of targets it attacks random targets in range.
LM can also attack somebody on a tower.
lm has the same range limit as the totem, 40 yards.

Thanks for the testings, LM seems to be very inconsistent about LoS...

Anyway, about the range limit, does it still attack a target that is within 40 yards of the totem but more than 40 yards from the shaman?