"you're a hunter, you play the easiest class in the game"

[Deleted]

now I'm not saying our class is hard by any means (BM definitely has more of a learning curve to play very well than survival), but don't you think there are some classes that come to mind that are easier than us? I mean c'mon, shadow priest anyone?

Elemental Shaman is much easier than Hunter. LB/EB/UE when they are up. Are they not up? Cast Lighting Bolt untill they are.

[Kazuchika]

Elemental Shaman is much easier than Hunter. LB/EB/UE when they are up. Are they not up? Cast Lighting Bolt untill they are.

As someone who played an elemental shaman for 7 years I can say the hardest part about playing an elemental shaman was managing to stay awake.

[Deleted]

Determining the hardest class or spec should be done from a PvP perspective, not PvE. In this case, Hunter is certainly not very difficult. Shadow Priest is. Any class that has more roles than one, and requires a diverse play style to reach its potential, is the hardest. (Has the highest skill-cap. Thin line between this and difficulty.)

[Dracodraco]

Determining the hardest class or spec should be done from a PvP perspective, not PvE. In this case, Hunter is certainly not very difficult. Shadow Priest is. Any class that has more roles than one, and requires a diverse play style to reach its potential, is the hardest. (Has the highest skill-cap. Thin line between this and difficulty.)

Far more people do PvE at a high level than PvP. Classes are mainly balanced around PvE - to an extent where they have actually gone in and made ceartain skills act different in PvE and PvP, just to make sure they wouldn't nerf/buff one or the other through balancing either (healing nerfed, chaos bolt hitting for less in PvP etc). Why exactly should it be determined from a PvP perspective?

[Deleted]

Assassination rogues. Very few abilities, lots of downtime. This is PvE though. In PvP, hunters are simpler.

[Deleted]

Far more people do PvE at a high level than PvP. Classes are mainly balanced around PvE - to an extent where they have actually gone in and made ceartain skills act different in PvE and PvP, just to make sure they wouldn't nerf/buff one or the other through balancing either (healing nerfed, chaos bolt hitting for less in PvP etc). Why exactly should it be determined from a PvP perspective?

That more people do PvE explains nothing about the nature of the classes. Class balance, additionally, only speaks of the net outcome of their potential, which, in PvE, is centred only around the end-goal of a specific spezcialization. Thus, a specialization like Shadow Priest will be balanced, in theory, around the dps part. In PvP, its nature changes to fulfil many roles, ranging from active healing, support, dps, all which change in unpredictable ways throughout a battle/situation in progress.

To avoid confusion, by "determined" I did not suggest that classes should be balanced around PvP only, rather that we should figure which class is the hardest or has the highest skill cap through PvP. This is, generally, where a class uses most of its potential, and does so in harder ways.

[Grawlix]

High skill cap in pvp. Takes ridiculous amounts of binds and macros. I have around 60 on mine.

Most classes have a high skill cap in pvp. The problem with hunters is you don't need to be anywhere near the skill cap to be quite effective in pvp. That kiting and CC can be a bit overtuned.

[Dracodraco]

That more people do PvE explains nothing about the nature of the classes. Class balance, additionally, only speaks of the net outcome of their potential, which, in PvE, is centred only around the end-goal of a specific spezcialization. Thus, a specialization like Shadow Priest will be balanced, in theory, around the dps part. In PvP, its nature changes to fulfil many roles, ranging from active healing, support, dps, all which change in unpredictable ways throughout a battle/situation in progress.

To avoid confusion, by "determined" I did not suggest that classes should be balanced around PvP only, rather that we should figure which class is the hardest or has the highest skill cap through PvP. This is, generally, where a class uses most of its potential, and does so in harder ways.

That's just bollocks, though, because in that case, any class with hybrid tendencies will automatically be "harder" because you can't fullfill two roles, while in a PvE enviroment, being a hybrid means fuck all, while every class has multiple tools to aid the raid that never gets used in a PvE enviroment (such as hunters handling add control through kiting/MD etc - not that there's been a lot of it lately, but it used to be a thing).

That aside, your entire concept is also completly retarded. If we're evaluating what the "easiest" class would be in a PvE enviroment, it makes close to zero sense for us to look at it from a PvP perspective. I mean, why on earth would a PvE based opinion/argument give a single fuck about how many utility spells that person's class has to use in PvP? You can be a spriest and not have any of your healing tools except VE bound, and no one will ever be the wiser. It just doesn't make sense.

[Deleted]

That's just bollocks, though,

Now, keep it calm. What English accent are you speaking, if I may ask? I'm curious to know whether or not the way you'd say this sounds truly retarded as it did in my head.

because in that case, any class with hybrid tendencies will automatically be "harder" because you can't fullfill two roles,

That they will automatically be harder only proves my point, while it does nothing to yours. Tell me, does proving people's points true make you happy? If so, please just quote what I said in the future.

while in a PvE enviroment, being a hybrid means fuck all,

Once again proving my point. You're getting better at it. Keep a nice tone, though.

while every class has multiple tools to aid the raid that never gets used in a PvE enviroment (such as hunters handling add control through kiting/MD etc - not that there's been a lot of it lately, but it used to be a thing).

That's exactly why class difficulty/skill cap should be calculated from the viewpoint of a PvP situation, since this, one average, makes better use of a class' potential than a PvE situation. Both due to unpredictability in PvP, which is rarely found in PvE, and because the utility each class offers is necessary in PvP, generally, while that is not the case in PvE.

That aside, your entire concept is also completly retarded.

What concept? If you see something I said that I didn't, look up schizophrenia.

If we're evaluating what the "easiest" class would be in a PvE enviroment, it makes close to zero sense for us to look at it from a PvP perspective.

Never did I say we should determine a class' performance in PvE through a PvP perspective. I was making a general remark about calculating the difficulty of every class, which in PvP exceeds the one in PvE. Understand?

I mean, why on earth would a PvE based opinion/argument give a single fuck about how many utility spells that person's class has to use in PvP?

Good question. Now, do you see a connection with what you asked, and what I said? If yes, your schizophrenia seems more real than earlier. Could be something else, though. Medication side-effects can do the trick.

You can be a spriest and not have any of your healing tools except VE bound, and no one will ever be the wiser. It just doesn't make sense.

Nor will you make use of the class' potential in that case.

[Dracodraco]

Now, keep it calm. What English accent are you speaking, if I may ask? I'm curious to know whether or not the way you'd say this sounds truly retarded as it did in my head.

It was between that or "bullshit". I picked the one that'd sound less offensive.

That they will automatically be harder only proves my point, while it does nothing to yours. Tell me, does proving people's points true make you happy? If so, please just quote what I said in the future.

Except no - the entire thing that has been proven is that you set up a standard for classes that values difficulty by the amount of roles they can fullfill, instead of the role they're actually fullfilling. A priest is not harder to DPS on than a hunter because the priest can also offheal - you don't add the "BUT IT CAN HEAL"-part of the class to compare two DPS specs.

Once again proving my point. You're getting better at it. Keep a nice tone, though.

No, I'm really not. You're proving the point that you don't have a clue about what we've been discussing. I'd advice you to actually read the topic before making a fresh account and spewing nonsense :/.

That's exactly why class difficulty/skill cap should be calculated from the viewpoint of a PvP situation, since this, one average, makes better use of a class' potential than a PvE situation. Both due to unpredictability in PvP, which is rarely found in PvE, and because the utility each class offers is necessary in PvP, generally, while that is not the case in PvE.

No - it's exactly why all these things shouldn't even be considered. When you ask, "what is easier to play", you're asking which class is the easier to play in a standard situation. A standard situation is, say, Iron Juggernaut - no multidotting, no padding, just plain old "what does this class boil down to on a single target". The fact that a class can kite and offheal doesn't make the class "harder", because those tools are almost never utilised. It's a "niche", NOT a "defining" characteristic of the class.

What concept? If you see something I said that I didn't, look up schizophrenia.

The concept that you think that a PvE situation should be evaluated from a PvP mindset/set of criteria. That is "the concept" that you have suggested, as per

Determining the hardest class or spec should be done from a PvP perspective, not PvE.

Never did I say we should determine a class' performance in PvE through a PvP perspective. I was making a general remark about calculating the difficulty of every class, which in PvP exceeds the one in PvE. Understand?

Except you *JUST FUCKING DID*. Here, let me quote it again:

Determining the hardest class or spec should be done from a PvP perspective, not PvE.

So we're here, discussing PvE nuanches, trinket gaming, spell sequences etc - basic PvE stuff. And you suggest that we should be evaluating it from a PvP perspective, just so all hybrids would automatically become harder. Right. Again - would you please read the entire topic instead of making new accounts and spamming bullshit (not bullocks, as you didn't like that one).
We're discussing PvE scenarios, and pretty much any post that has even remotely touched on PvP has been completly ignored. If you're dumb enough to not sense that this discussion has been about PvE, then I weep for you.

Good question. Now, do you see a connection with what you asked, and what I said? If yes, your schizophrenia seems more real than earlier. Could be something else, though. Medication side-effects can do the trick.

...That doesn't even make sense, but okay man. Once again: PvE discussion. Why on earth would you think we give any fucks about PvP and utility in there when discussing PvE. Are you just here to spam your postcount up so you can post spam links :s? Seems more realistic at this point than anything else.

Nor will you make use of the class' potential in that case.

Except in PvE, making use of heals is 99 times out of 100 the wrong thing to do. If you get into the habbit of constantly offhealing instead of trusting your healers, you're gonna have a shit performance output wise, for no reason at all.

[Azortharion]

He's speaking Denglish.

[Nakauri]

The OP doesn't seem to mention 10 man, 25 man, PvE or PvP. It's just a general statement with a general accusation. The thread is arguing because you're trying to apply specifics to it, which are different between each scenario.

Though I will say that, in a lot of cases, strong PvP players also make strong PvE players. This isn't because they use their class to "more potential" or have hybrid and utility spells, but because the PvP environment usually emphasizes situational awareness in a way that PvE doesn't. When applied in a cross-manner, this serves beneficially in the form of quick reactions and perception of environmental attributes. In other words, "DPS tunneling" decreases slightly (sometimes), and they're more likely to be mobile (out of fire).

[theburned]

That more people do PvE explains nothing about the nature of the classes. Class balance, additionally, only speaks of the net outcome of their potential, which, in PvE, is centred only around the end-goal of a specific spezcialization. Thus, a specialization like Shadow Priest will be balanced, in theory, around the dps part. In PvP, its nature changes to fulfil many roles, ranging from active healing, support, dps, all which change in unpredictable ways throughout a battle/situation in progress.

To avoid confusion, by "determined" I did not suggest that classes should be balanced around PvP only, rather that we should figure which class is the hardest or has the highest skill cap through PvP. This is, generally, where a class uses most of its potential, and does so in harder ways.

Great job using SP as an example, it's the class that is balanced to do like shit (dps wise) because it's a hybrid and can do shitloads of healing. same goes for elemental and boomkin though, they are just slightly more solid in PVE

[Deleted]

It was between that or "bullshit". I picked the one that'd sound less offensive.

You don't have to nitpick. I expect retards to sound retarded. Little cretin, don't try to sound smarter than you are.

Except no - the entire thing that has been proven is that you set up a standard for classes that values difficulty by the amount of roles they can fullfill,instead of the role they're actually fullfilling.

The amount of roles they can fulfil, and the fullest potential they can reach in those roles. Before discussing with me, try to understand what I'm saying. Got it?

A priest is not harder to DPS on than a hunter because the priest can also offheal

That's what I said when I explained what the end-goal is in terms of PvE. For Shadow Priest, it is dps'ing. In that case, it is not the hardest. Not once did I say we should determine its PvE dps'ing difficulty through a PvP perspective. Learn to read. Try.

- you don't add the "BUT IT CAN HEAL"-part of the class to compare two DPS specs.

Not once. I compared their fullest capabilities in the best scenario to do so for them. It's not PvE. I never referred to PvE exclusively.

No, I'm really not. You're proving the point that you don't have a clue about what we've been discussing.

Uh oh. What I said correctly, and what you're trying to say that has no correlation to my point, is not equivalent to me not understanding what we're discussing. It's you not understanding how to connect the dots. Or see them in the first place. Again, you're overestimating your intelligence. Perhaps, madam, you are stupid.

I'd advice you to actually read the topic before making a fresh account and spewing nonsense :/.

Seeing as I never addressed anyone in here in particular, but made a general statement about class difficulty and how we should determine it (not solely in PvE, but in general terms), I am quite confident that I am on spot, and you have sailed off-shore here. I will only read the entire thread when it becomes necessary to my point. It is not.

No - it's exactly why all these things shouldn't even be considered. When you ask, "what is easier to play", you're asking which class is the easier to play in a standard situation. A standard situation is, say, Iron Juggernaut - no multidotting, no padding, just plain old "what does this class boil down to on a single target". The fact that a class can kite and offheal doesn't make the class "harder", because those tools are almost never utilised. It's a "niche", NOT a "defining" characteristic of the class.

Ah, mongoloid - that is NOT a standard situation. There is no reason why we should consider your example a standard situation. To determine class difficulty, it is most reasonable to consider the situation which requires the use of most of a class' potential, which, generally, is a PvP situation. Not every, but most. Consider X being the hardest PvP battle vs Y being the hardest PvE battle. Seeing as the PvE in WoW is predictable and requires lesser use of tools, we are correct to assume that situation X is the one which most correctly shows a class' difficulty/skill cap.

The concept that you think that a PvE situation should be evaluated from a PvP mindset/set of criteria. That is "the concept" that you have suggested, as per

"Determining the hardest class or spec should be done from a PvP perspective, not PvE."

Did you fail English at school? Because, mongoloid, what I said has nothing to do with determining a class' potential in PvE through a PvP perspective. Rather, we should GENERALLY be able to determine its full potential and skill cap through PvP, not PvE, because the latter does not make full use of a class' potential. Are you dumb on purpose, or is it auto-generated?

Except you *JUST FUCKING DID*. Here, let me quote it again:

I didn't. You're too dumb to understand a simple phrase.

So we're here, discussing PvE nuanches, trinket gaming, spell sequences etc - basic PvE stuff.

That you think I addressed anyone in particular here only shows that you are dumb, and your comprehension skills are bottom-low. I made a general statement in a thread that speaks of class difficulty, Hunter in particular, for which I found it proper to make a remark about determining class difficulty in general, not just PvE.

And you suggest that we should be evaluating it from a PvP perspective,

Not once did I do that. The part where you cited me says nothing of the sort either. Your comprehension skills? They hurt.

just so all hybrids would automatically become harder. Right. Again - would you please read the entire topic instead of making new accounts and spamming bullshit (not bullocks, as you didn't like that one).

New accounts? What suggests this is part of an account chain? Clearly, as I said, you're not very bright.

We're discussing PvE scenarios,

As I am not part of the discussion, my original statement remains independent of anything anyone else said in this thread.

and pretty much any post that has even remotely touched on PvP has been completly ignored. If you're dumb enough to not sense that this discussion has been about PvE, then I weep for you.

Cry me a river, bimbo. If the meat-piece in your head couldn't figure I made a remark unrelated to the discussion here, but relevant to the title of the thread, then you're very likely mentally damaged to the point I feel sorry for you. Really, I feel sorry for you. Being that retarded must be sad.

...That doesn't even make sense, but okay man. Once again: PvE discussion.

I never entered a discussion prior to you arriving here. I made a remark relevant to the thread title. Understand, kid? No?

Why on earth would you think we give any fucks about PvP and utility in there when discussing PvE.

I didn't join the discuss. I am free to comment independently of what others said in here. That you are creating a connection between what I said, and what others before me said, is not my problem. Your loss. (If you are acting retarded on purpose, however, good job, I must admit.)

Are you just here to spam your postcount up so you can post spam links :s? Seems more realistic at this point than anything else.

Your evaluation of my actions is amateurish. Do yourself a favor and quit.

Except in PvE, making use of heals is 99 times out of 100 the wrong thing to do. If you get into the habbit of constantly offhealing instead of trusting your healers, you're gonna have a shit performance output wise, for no reason at all.

Thanks for the tip, useless cretin.

- - - Updated - - -

The OP doesn't seem to mention 10 man, 25 man, PvE or PvP. It's just a general statement with a general accusation. The thread is arguing because you're trying to apply specifics to it, which are different between each scenario.

Correct, yet this useless moron who barely completed elementary school thinks that my original comment is dependent on what has been said here before I joined the thread. What a bimbo, eh.

Infracted. Do not flame other users.

[bigrichard]

Hunter is easy to play but it's not the easiest. Elemental Shaman wins that prize.

[Azortharion]

-snip- I know you don't think this is a meme, but we don't allow posts which consist only of pictures, unless the thread is specifically for that.

Credits to KTB.

[cubby]

now I'm not saying our class is hard by any means (BM definitely has more of a learning curve to play very well than survival), but don't you think there are some classes that come to mind that are easier than us? I mean c'mon, shadow priest anyone?

While some may think that hunters are lol ez mode, they are also one of the most fun. I play Shaman main with Druid submain (if that makes sense) but I also have a hunter I break out when I just want to go play with some fun mobs.

[Cliperlol]

12/10 Would read this thread again

[Deleted]

This thread is going places... Not construtive ones, but places.

[Finbezz]

inc dracobomb