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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by finskee View Post
    I have warcraft 2 dreams still. They are much better than Madden dreams (nightmares) but not as good as legacy of kain: soul reaver dreams.
    Soul Reaver was no Blood Omen IMO

    It was pretty good but... it's a pity they never truly finished it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    The base idea itself could've worked. Reworked world? Cool! Too bad lot of the zones were half-assed after running out of time. More challenging small-scale end game content? Cool! Too bad they removed about every other piece of end game content except heroic->raid from equation, leaving people fiddle thumbs if they didn't/couldn't raid with no alternatives to heroic dungeons at all (very much ruining the gearing curve). More involved storylines? Well Cataclysm quest writing took a deep notch down in quality but the quest design itself wasn't that bad. Just the linearity of it all killed it. Like the hell, locking out of entire zone if you didn't do one quest in straight line they were?
    Not that many zones were half-assed, Arathi Highlands maybe.

    Cataclysm contained the best quest zones in the game. The revamped zones are top notch for the most part. The endgame zones were pretty solid as well. In fact I remember bowling down leper gnomes in Uldum and thinking to myself "this is my favourite quest zone of all time". Not kidding.

    Also, serious nostalgia goggles re: linearity of quests. WoW was always linear, in the old days quests just didn't link or flow at all, and there were huge gaps in zones with no quests (eg, all of Azshara). This criticism is ass-backwards. They actually made questing WORK and people complained about it. Vanilla questing was horrendous. And since when has there been anything between heroic and raid? Until MoP...

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I've sometimes wondered if Cataclysm was Kotick giving the "HARDCORE RAH!" faction inside Blizzard enough rope to hang themselves. If he wanted to get more control over the design decisions there, the best way to do that would be to discredit those who stood in his way. (BTW, in no way am I suggesting this would be "evil" behavior.)
    You guys and your conspiracy theories.

    It's like you don't remember how all through late Wrath these forums were wall to wall bitching about how easy Heroics were. Then they go and make them difficult again and what happens? Exact same amount of bitching, only now about how they're too hard.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnpleasableFanbase
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    You guys and your conspiracy theories.
    One person with possibly machiavellian motivations doesn't constitute a conspiracy.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    You guys and your conspiracy theories.

    It's like you don't remember how all through late Wrath these forums were wall to wall bitching about how easy Heroics were. Then they go and make them difficult again and what happens? Exact same amount of bitching, only now about how they're too hard.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...easableFanbase
    That's right Osmeric. Everyone knows that in the real world corporate politics is never dirty or manipulative, (and Machiavelli is just some artist in italy).

    too funny, I had already written machiavelli before you had posted
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, John Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Agatha Christie, Steven Erikson & Ian Esslemont, Stephen R Donaldon, and recently Jack L Chalker.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    One person with possibly machiavellian motivations doesn't constitute a conspiracy.
    Sometimes all it takes is one person.
    Muwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    That's right Osmeric. Everyone knows that in the real world corporate politics is never dirty or manipulative, (and Machiavelli is just some artist in italy).

    too funny, I had already written machiavelli before you had posted

    more generally though, bc-type heroics in an LFD world had some pretty obvious built-in problem potential. I do wonder if someone was allowed to go fwd with the tuning in order to set them up or in the expectation that they would fail. I can understand a contrary argument - spending lots of resources on instance content that folks blow through in 15 minutes is a problem, but once you attach LFD to it, its a train wreck.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, John Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Agatha Christie, Steven Erikson & Ian Esslemont, Stephen R Donaldon, and recently Jack L Chalker.

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    more generally though, bc-type heroics in an LFD world had some pretty obvious built-in problem potential. I do wonder if someone was allowed to go fwd with the tuning in order to set them up or in the expectation that they would fail. I can understand a contrary argument - spending lots of resources on instance content that folks blow through in 15 minutes is a problem, but once you attach LFD to it, its a train wreck.
    Yeah. On the other hand, sometimes obviously bad things slip through for random reasons. Hanlon's Razor and all that.

    They are FINALLY reaching the solution they should have reached earlier, IMO: normal mode 5 mans => LFR, and heroic mode 5 mans => WoD normal raids. The heroic 5 mans tuned harder than currently will be just fine done with guild groups.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    WoW needs to be timeless and while they do nod in ways at various cultural references from time to time it's well to remember that as a design group they're more interested in putting poop quests into the game than covering every serious social issue. That makes them an easy and very large target for those with agendas but I believe that Blizzard is doing the right thing to resist all of that. WoW is a place to retreat from the real world, not immerse yourself in the same issues and controversies that populate our own.
    Just happen to think if it's normalised in this kind of environment, then it stops being a controversy in real life. Honestly, at this point that avoidance just becomes more noticable as it is normalised elsewhere; it's 2014, it's pretty standard on TV and has been for over 10 years, it's really not a big deal anymore. The slow pace of video games to react and catch up is frankly really pretty lamentable by comparison.

  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    once again, I feel the 'shut up and sing' rule applies. corporations who embrace social or political issues/positions which have decent %'s strongly against, or at least strongly against having to deal with in their recreational time in their own home (unlike tv, you don't 'change the channel' on wow if you are playing it), are at peril of alienating far more customers than whatever media goodwill they get.

    Activision is smart to stay out of the social programming business and just make games. the issue you refer to isn't their problem, nor is it their responsibility to program customers to accept it. Honestly, it is none of their business at all.

    Personally, I don't know what EA is thinking with their efforts on this. do they really expect to sell that many additional copies of product vs. the % of existing customers who are increasingly tired of having this overtly put into every aspect of their personal entertainment?

    Most people, you know, actually don't CARE what other people do and just would rather not have things they aren't personally interested in thrust into their faces in a clearly contrived and intentional manner.
    I can only point to the global success of Game of Thrones on TV, with it's explicit LGB content. You're right, people don't give a shit anymore, and Blizzard are way behind the times by hamstringing themselves by intentionally ignoring it to the point where ignoring it is as time passes only going to be an even bigger deal as it's actually noticably being sidestepped.

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    I think for wow you need to compare to consumer entertainment/food goods that people are paying for.
    How are cable/satalite subs or box-set purchases incomparable?

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I can only point to the global success of Game of Thrones on TV, with it's explicit LGB content. You're right, people don't give a shit anymore, and Blizzard are way behind the times by hamstringing themselves by intentionally ignoring it to the point where ignoring it is as time passes only going to be an even bigger deal as it's actually noticably being sidestepped.
    I can agree up to a point that WoW might start to feel old fashioned and conservative if it wouldn't put LGB-related content in their game, possibly harming the popularity of their product. But... how did this thread get sidetracked unto this subject anyway?
    ♦ Scepticist ♦ Critic ♦ INTJ

  11. #551
    Epic! finskee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch the Subduer View Post
    But... how did this thread get sidetracked unto this subject anyway?
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ernetBackdraft

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I can only point to the global success of Game of Thrones on TV, with it's explicit LGB content. You're right, people don't give a shit anymore, and Blizzard are way behind the times by hamstringing themselves by intentionally ignoring it to the point where ignoring it is as time passes only going to be an even bigger deal as it's actually noticably being sidestepped.
    I don't think they are ignoring it, I just don't think they feel it's relevant to their game. Every game, book or tv show ever made doesn't need to have content for every sexual orientation or race or whatever. It's totally up to the creator what they want to make and up to the consumer if they want to buy it. I don't get why people feel thy have the right to outright demand someone change their art to appeal to their personal views. Those people should complain less and instead use that energy to go out and create the games they want to see. The industry would be better for it too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  13. #553
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWay View Post
    I couldn't say it anything different.
    Then you'd not be saying it very well.

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