What to do when you just can't get along with your guild's management?

[baebae1]

Do you just gquit? Find another guild? Is it really that simple? My guild is progressing really fast, towards the very end of heroic siege, and I'm not sure how long the guild is going to last. I just don't think the GM has a clue what he's doing, and makes a lot of wrong decisions when it comes to things (recruiting, keeping the same people in the raid who are very low performance-wise, etc). But we are still progressing, and I'm sure we will not get past the boss we're coming up on. He doesn't even raid lead, he's just in the shadows. Sometimes I feel as if the guild is just there to get to 14/14 possibly and then break up so certain people can just be BIS. I don't even feel like it's a guild because a majority of the reason we're killing bosses is from a very experienced raid leader outside of guild.

i hate to even think of gquitting because in the beginning the guild was very cool, but the guild is clearly taking a turn for the worst i think

[Deleted]

It's simple. World of Warcraft is a game; if you're a heroic raider then you are investing a fair amount of time and you need to enjoy yourself. If the way the guild operates isn't for you (to the point where it's really frustrating), then you need to look elsewhere - it's a lot better than getting to the point where you end up raging at everyone. The main problem is you never know what a guild leadership is really like until you're already in and raiding with them. Still, in situations like this I always think it's a case of better the devil you don't know.

[Deleted]

Well if bosses are dying at a quick rate sounds like he's doing a good job.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

It is also quite common for the raid leader to not be the same person as the guild leader. Doing both jobs is a fast-track path to burn-out.

[Raiju]

What does in your opinion a good raid leader do? Shout out what dbm is saying? I find a lot of people think those are good raid leaders while any important decisions they don't voice up on and simply just parrot DBM mindlessly.

Without any more info all you've said is "i dont like what my gm does but its working"

I'd also say a vast majority of guilds that aren't in the world first race as standard have the "very experienced raid leader" who may not even be an officer. It's par for the course since skill level within a guild varies so greatly.

[Deleted]

It is also quite common for the raid leader to not be the same person as the guild leader. Doing both jobs is a fast-track path to burn-out.

This. If a good guild leader wants to do his job right he needs to stay in the shadows and pick a few raid leaders to lead the raids for him. Creates a much healthier environment trust me.

[Deleted]

Do you just gquit? Find another guild? Is it really that simple? My guild is progressing really fast, towards the very end of heroic siege, and I'm not sure how long the guild is going to last. I just don't think the GM has a clue what he's doing, and makes a lot of wrong decisions when it comes to things (recruiting, keeping the same people in the raid who are very low performance-wise, etc). But we are still progressing, and I'm sure we will not get past the boss we're coming up on. He doesn't even raid lead, he's just in the shadows. Sometimes I feel as if the guild is just there to get to 14/14 possibly and then break up so certain people can just be BIS. I don't even feel like it's a guild because a majority of the reason we're killing bosses is from a very experienced raid leader outside of guild.

i hate to even think of gquitting because in the beginning the guild was very cool, but the guild is clearly taking a turn for the worst i think

Raise your concerns to him, and if it doesn't work out, leave.

I will say though, that a RL should not be the GM. I was both in a previous guild, and I burned out in less than two months - a GM does more than the RL, and the RL does an insane amount as well. He is wise to not be doing both jobs. It is a very thankless task; therefore simply speak to the GM about it.

If your guild is killing things fast, then perhaps you are the problem.

[Anzen]

I'd sympathize with him at least a bit. As a GM and a raid leader myself of a guild, I can tell you it isn't as great as you think it is. Everything you say someone will disagree against, you have to be firm, you will have people that dislike you, but they do what's best for the guild and that's it, it his guild after-all. You said yourself the guild is progressing really fast, surely that means he's doing a good job.

If you personally don't get on with them, either resolve it personally or just find a different guild.

[Deleted]

well if you really disagree, then it's the best you leave.
while still being on somewhat good terms, rather then it exploding in big guild drama.

as for him not being the raid leader, well there is no need for the guildleader to be the raidleader.
as long someone capable is put in charge of the Raids with the GM providing back up with the officers too the RL.

[Deleted]

I've had 2 people leave my guild last week, because we couldn't get along anymore on a personal level. Both officers and one even raidleader, but it just didn't work out. Understating to say we are bummed out, since they were basically co-founders and good friends. We've had a good run, but it was time to part ways.

They've joined another guild, we've got two others to fill their raidspots and are stocked on officers again. We're all still breathing, time for them and my guild to move on.

For your story: Talk to him what's on your mind. His arguments, if he has any, should give you a bit more to think about and help make a decision. As GM myself, I'd appreciate people being honest whenever something's up, rather than screwing us over because of stacked up emotions.
Leaving ís a viable option, your past experiences are not relevant now. I would just be cautious with talking to your GM, might not be wise to go full-on when he had a bad day, you know.

Agreed with Felhunter, don't bring it up in a public way (in guild); it's just unneccesary drama no one cares for.
What Anzen said is also spot on.


TL;DR: Confronting someone is hard, it's best to get it over with asap.

[Stormspellz]

GM is a thankless job that often sucks all fun from the GAME, everyone wants everything and everyone has problem with something.

[Deleted]

On the note of keeping people in the raid that never really perform well - anyone here who has been an officer at any point in their raiding career is either a liar, a damned liar, or perennially spoiled for choice if they claim they've never done it themselves. Whether you're a 10-man or especially a 25-man, if you're not at the pinnacle of raiding (i.e. top 100 or thereabove), you're simply just not swimming in applicants, and sometimes you have no other choice but to keep warm bodies around to make sure you can actually raid, even if you know damned well every pull they don't die is a miracle.

A lot of players seemingly don't understand this, nor do a lot of players understand that the steadfastly loyal, dependable 75th percentile guy is 1000 times more valuable than the 95th percentile maverick who could /gquit on a whim any day now.

In the end, to be honest, if you have any sort of respect for him, either resolve with yourself to kow-tow to the party line, or get out. There's nothing worse as a GM/Officer than the wise-ass who's never satisfied with anything. You're likely not privy to even half the information that goes into his decision-making, which leaves you with exactly zero rightful mandate to question him.

[Vargur]

Do you just gquit? Find another guild? Is it really that simple? My guild is progressing really fast, towards the very end of heroic siege, and I'm not sure how long the guild is going to last. I just don't think the GM has a clue what he's doing, and makes a lot of wrong decisions when it comes to things (recruiting, keeping the same people in the raid who are very low performance-wise, etc). But we are still progressing, and I'm sure we will not get past the boss we're coming up on. He doesn't even raid lead, he's just in the shadows. Sometimes I feel as if the guild is just there to get to 14/14 possibly and then break up so certain people can just be BIS. I don't even feel like it's a guild because a majority of the reason we're killing bosses is from a very experienced raid leader outside of guild.

i hate to even think of gquitting because in the beginning the guild was very cool, but the guild is clearly taking a turn for the worst i think

I think you emphasize "a guild" too much. You may be playing with real people, but it's "pixels", and it's "playing a game". If the raiding is working for now, don't fret.

[Deleted]

It all depends on what you really want, if you hop guilds you may get better organised guilds but the members might be assholes, you may also find a lovely guild with wonderful people but their progress is slow.

If you only seek raiding, then don't log on unless you raid.


The grass isn't always greener on the other side, or in wow terms the epics aren't always more shiny in the other guilds ^^

[Pariah]

If you don't get along with your guild's leadership, work it out. It's the same everywhere else you go.

If you don't trust your guild's leadership, just leave.

If you haven't been an officer in a raiding guild, it's hard to appreciate the player that isn't always performing well but has strong loyalty. It's not like the officers don't notice what you're noticing-- there's a reason it's allowed to continue for the time being.

[Wilderness]

Figure out exactly why you're unhappy with the guild management. If its something you can talk to him/them about, then do so. If you think they are just terrible and making bad decisions left and right then there isn't going to be much to discuss, you will just need to look for another guild.

At the end of the day, this is a game that we play for fun - if you're not having fun, then you should change something about what you're doing until you are having fun again.

[Meillquei]

If you aren't happy with the way your guild is being managed, then the best option is usually just to leave.
Before you resort to leaving though, I would speak to your GM or an officer about why you aren't happy. Good GMs and officers will listen to your concerns and discuss them with fellow officers.

In the end, do what makes you happy. Leaving isn't the end of the world, you can still talk to the people you like via battletag/realID. Chances are, a lot of raiding guilds would love to have you anyway!

[Deleted]

As a former officer/RL I can just tell you that a lot of guild related things will take a long time, so removing players that are not performing to what you would say is up to par isn't as easy as it sounds, and the same thing with recruiting, even if you do it another way most likely it won't change anything due to the time of the expansion and that you're progressingly fast through it means you are either quite early on in the instance or already have good players.

[zoefschildpad]

I had a nice arrangement for a while in a guild I was an officer in. Together with the guild master I handled recruitment, loot rules, our dkp system and we decided who got to go on raids. We had a different officer who, though he got votes in other matters, was primarily our raid leader and nothing else. If there was anything people were upset about, they blamed the guild master and me, nobody ever had any reason to be upset at our raid leader. The raid leader was really happy to let us handle the decisions, and we were really happy to have him lead the raids because he was simply excellent at it and everyone loved him.

Such a shame naxx was so dull and grinding it for months broke us apart...

[alexke]

On the note of keeping people in the raid that never really perform well - anyone here who has been an officer at any point in their raiding career is either a liar, a damned liar, or perennially spoiled for choice if they claim they've never done it themselves. Whether you're a 10-man or especially a 25-man, if you're not at the pinnacle of raiding (i.e. top 100 or thereabove), you're simply just not swimming in applicants, and sometimes you have no other choice but to keep warm bodies around to make sure you can actually raid, even if you know damned well every pull they don't die is a miracle.

A lot of players seemingly don't understand this, nor do a lot of players understand that the steadfastly loyal, dependable 75th percentile guy is 1000 times more valuable than the 95th percentile maverick who could /gquit on a whim any day now.

In the end, to be honest, if you have any sort of respect for him, either resolve with yourself to kow-tow to the party line, or get out. There's nothing worse as a GM/Officer than the wise-ass who's never satisfied with anything. You're likely not privy to even half the information that goes into his decision-making, which leaves you with exactly zero rightful mandate to question him.

This is 100% true.
Most people don't seem to get this, but finding higly 'skilled' players at this point in the expansion and progress is one of the hardest things out there. Not only do most decent players have the Garrosh kill allready, alot are allso going AFK, simply because, there's no more content for them.
Allso, most of the GM's / Officers I know put in alot more effort than some think. As an officer myself, I can say it's hard to cater to everyone. The most annoying thing is self-entitled raiders who want loot simply because they top damage as FOTM class without doing any of the targetswitches / interrupts / ...

The one thing you can do is keep the warm bodies around to keep on raiding, or get in lower geared players and start re-gearing them.
We've had our recruitment problems in the guild aswell this tier.

You could have a chat with your guildmaster/raidleader. But if you're not seeing eye to eye, there won't be alot you could do. You can either keep giving it everything you have, or start looking for another guild.
Seeing this is a game, wich some people seem to forget, and you keep playing for your enjoyment, it's your choise to leave or not.
You could allso help out with recruiting more 'skilled' people.
Since saying you need new people to replace underperforming ones is one thing.
Actually being able to help with recruiting and finding players is another.

TL;DR, either help out and have a chat with your GM, or leave and find a guild that suits you better.