The "it's 2014" or "it's the 21st century" arguements

[Deleted]

This is something you hear and read a lot in all sorts of discussions.
"I can't believe this still happens in the 21st century", or "Why are people still (..insert problem here..) in the year 2014"

People for some reason seem to think that things like racism, sexism, violence, wars, animal hunting, religion, sexual preference etc. are in a certain state or stage of development or acceptance. But are they really?

Just because laws forbid racism, does that mean it's not there? Maybe it's just less visible?
Just because minorities push through certain rights and laws, does that mean the majority now accept them or their views?
Just because certain religions are softened and very progressive, does that mean that other religions are going to accept that?

I think people in the West are very naïve and short sighted at the moment.
In terms of progression, it might be "2014" in some countries, but it might be like the 1950's in others. And let's not forget that many Western countries are seeing large immigration numbers from people that practically come from "medieval times" and that clash with the people in their newly adopted (or not adopted most of the time) nation.

Do you guys really think or even believe that certain things are truly accepted, or not? Or perhaps only for the time being?

[Deleted]

And let's not forget that many Western countries are seeing large immigration numbers from people that practically come from "medieval times" and that clash with the people in their newly adopted (or not adopted most of the time) nation.

This is gonna end well.

Racism, religions and murdering each other for petty things are mostly considered unmodern and uncivilized, tribal even, that's why people say "it's the 21st century!".

[StayTuned]

It's a generations thing. As we educate our children more and more and teach them acceptance instead of fear, we will have less and less racism, sexism etc. My grandparents don't like black people and gay people because they've been taught that they are either not normal or something else. My parents even feel a bit the same, distrusting them but not hating them. I, who has the internet, know that all their reasons are faulty and make no sense at all. I respect them all.

I only dislike double-wide people who act like my parents and grandparents.

Some countries are obviously faster in educating their citizens than others but they are all progressing more or less slowly.

[vetinari]

This is gonna end well.

Racism, religions and murdering each other for petty things are mostly considered unmodern and uncivilized, tribal even, that's why people say "it's the 21st century!".

I'm sure that back in the Victorian era, people would say, "This is the 19th century! I can't believe this still happens"

[Deleted]

I'm sure that back in the Victorian era, people would say, "This is the 19th century! I can't believe this still happens"

Yeah, stuff like "Jews getting influence? Uh, come ooooon? It's the 19th century, helloooo, everyone knows Jews can't be trusted with power. Or in general.."

[Deleted]

It's just an expression of how outdated something is.

[Deleted]

It's just an expression of how outdated something is.

Ah, but that's just the point I was trying to make!
Are some things really outdated?

I think humanity is the same as it always was. It's just that we fool ourselves into believing otherwise.

Here in Holland, a country which used to lead in progression and acceptance, people still don't hire black people for front office jobs, gay people are targeted in their homes with violent behavior, companies still don't want woman in their management unless they are practically forced to by law etc etc.

[StayTuned]

Ah, but that's just the point I was trying to make!
Are some things really outdated?

I think humanity is the same as it always was. It's just that we fool ourselves into believing otherwise.

Here in Holland, a country which used to lead in progression and acceptance, people still don't hire black people for front office jobs, gay people are targeted in their homes with violent behavior, companies still don't want woman in their management unless they are practically forced to by law etc etc.

Extreme generalizations are extreme. I live in Groningen and I can't confirm any of that.

[prwraith]

I don't think it's wrong to expect after a few thousand years the world would learn that skin color is irrelevant, geographical location is irrelevant, and religious disagreements are irrelevant.

You're wholly in the right to expect after a few thousand years of learning that we could all live in a world without war.

[Deleted]

Ah, but that's just the point I was trying to make!
Are some things really outdated?

I think humanity is the same as it always was. It's just that we fool ourselves into believing otherwise.

Here in Holland, a country which used to lead in progression and acceptance, people still don't hire black people for front office jobs, gay people are targeted in their homes with violent behavior, companies still don't want woman in their management unless they are practically forced to by law etc etc.

We as a society are getting better and better at treating each other well.

[Mormolyce]

I'm sure that back in the Victorian era, people would say, "This is the 19th century! I can't believe this still happens"

The Victorian era WAS a shitload better than the Middle Ages.

[Velaniz]

It's to express dismay at how people are continuing to exhibit behavior reminiscent of the kind that you might've observed in a past era.

I say that every single time some idiot complains about gay marriage, for instance.

[Ravenblade]

Ah, but that's just the point I was trying to make!
Are some things really outdated?

I think humanity is the same as it always was. It's just that we fool ourselves into believing otherwise.

Here in Holland, a country which used to lead in progression and acceptance, people still don't hire black people for front office jobs, gay people are targeted in their homes with violent behavior, companies still don't want woman in their management unless they are practically forced to by law etc etc.

Technologically, sociologically and intellectually we have evolved. But humans as a species hasn't evolved much further to hardwire some of the humanistic advances we have made. We are still able to harm and kill like on the first day we have discovered that ability. We have become better to cloud our reasons for that by layers of inventive justifications. Some call it morale, others the lack of it. Martin Luther King jr. spoke of guided missiles and misguided men.

[mvaliz]

This is something you hear and read a lot in all sorts of discussions.
"I can't believe this still happens in the 21st century", or "Why are people still (..insert problem here..) in the year 2014"

People for some reason seem to think that things like racism, sexism, violence, wars, animal hunting, religion, sexual preference etc. are in a certain state or stage of development or acceptance. But are they really?

Yes

/end

Seriously, ask a black man today if they're more accepted now than they were 200 years ago.

[Stormdash]

This is something you hear and read a lot in all sorts of discussions.
"I can't believe this still happens in the 21st century", or "Why are people still (..insert problem here..) in the year 2014"

People for some reason seem to think that things like racism, sexism, violence, wars, animal hunting, religion, sexual preference etc. are in a certain state or stage of development or acceptance. But are they really?

Just because laws forbid racism, does that mean it's not there? Maybe it's just less visible?
Just because minorities push through certain rights and laws, does that mean the majority now accept them or their views?
Just because certain religions are softened and very progressive, does that mean that other religions are going to accept that?

I think people in the West are very naïve and short sighted at the moment.
In terms of progression, it might be "2014" in some countries, but it might be like the 1950's in others. And let's not forget that many Western countries are seeing large immigration numbers from people that practically come from "medieval times" and that clash with the people in their newly adopted (or not adopted most of the time) nation.

Do you guys really think or even believe that certain things are truly accepted, or not? Or perhaps only for the time being?

There is a shared delusion in the world, particularly the social-democratized western world, that we reached the end of history, and that every bad thing that used to happen officially reached its used-by date and now just doesn't happen, or if it does happen, it's an outlier or anomaly. History, however, didn't get the text.

[Ghostpanther]

We as a society are getting better and better at treating each other well.

Maybe that is your experience in Germany. But ask the same question from those in the Middle East now. Or in the Ukraine. Or in Nigeria, or in the Sudan...etc....etc...

[Gheld]

The primary reasoning behind such arguments is that most bigoted behaviour stems from cognitive biases that were developed while we were still swinging from trees flinging shit at each other a quarter million years ago, and that thanks to the magic of cumulative knowledge via written and oral tradition anybody with half a fucking brain should be able to figure that out and adjust their behaviour accordingly so that we may have a society that is pleasant and functional for everybody.

[Wildtree]

The primary reasoning behind such arguments is that most bigoted behaviour stems from cognitive biases that were developed while we were still swinging from trees flinging shit at each other a quarter million years ago, and that thanks to the magic of cumulative knowledge via written and oral tradition anybody with half a fucking brain should be able to figure that out and adjust their behaviour accordingly so that we may have a society that is pleasant and functional for everybody.

I was gonna say pretty much the same thing....

As an example we could use that thread about Targets "no guns" request...

Yes, we do have the 21th century, and modern progressed countries have long put their sabers and swords as display gimmicks at their living room walls, or are on display in museums. No one runs around with a rapier at their waist anymore... We've progressed, we've evolved from this kind of behavior.
And now we have in an assumed highly modern country that very behavior flaring up.
That's when "we're in the 21th century" (but you behave like you're in the 12th century) becomes a valid expression.

[Elegiac]

Are some things really outdated?

Yes. To paraphrase Ambroise Pare, tradition is of no use if it merely encourages you to go on making other people's mistakes.

[Dezerte]

Do you guys really think or even believe that certain things are truly accepted, or not? Or perhaps only for the time being?

No, I think it's just a way of saying how unacceptable these things actually are.